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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20881684

    Disgusting. It makes me wonder if in the future. Will ever be able to afford to get to work. New year fare rises have just become silly now.


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    (Original post by jblackmoustache)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20881684

    Disgusting. It makes me wonder if in the future. Will ever be able to afford to get to work. New year fare rises have just become silly now.


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    Good, let's stop the taxpayer subsidising an expensive form of transport and filling sareholders' pockets.
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    (Original post by James82)
    Good, let's stop the taxpayer subsidising an expensive form of transport and filling sareholders' pockets.
    Not good if you're on a low wage. I'm "lucky" that the 2 journeys I normally make, they'll only go up by pennies. But that will really add up over the year.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Not good if you're on a low wage. I'm "lucky" that the 2 journeys I normally make, they'll only go up by pennies. But that will really add up over the year.
    The TUC who are the most vociferous opponents when it comes to fare rises under the Tories are also the most vociferous opponents of government subsidies and they also want more workers to earn more money, somebody needs to teach them a lesson in basic economics. Naturally they weren''t nearly as outspoken when Labour increased fares by far larger amounts.

    The point is trains are an expensive form of transport, if people want to pay for it then fair enough, but why should the taxpayers subsidise it by billions of pounds each year? If I don't live near a train station can I have a subsidy on running a car or opt out of subsidising those who have a good train service near them?
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    (Original post by James82)
    The TUC who are the most vociferous opponents when it comes to fare rises under the Tories are also the most vociferous opponents of government subsidies and they also want more workers to earn more money, somebody needs to teach them a lesson in basic economics. Naturally they weren''t nearly as outspoken when Labour increased fares by far larger amounts.

    The point is trains are an expensive form of transport, if people want to pay for it then fair enough, but why should the taxpayers subsidise it by billions of pounds each year? If I don't live near a train station can I have a subsidy on running a car or opt out of subsidising those who have a good train service near them?
    You can walk to the train station. (which I have to do) I can't exactly walk 40-50 odd miles just to get somewhere.
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    (Original post by James82)
    The TUC who are the most vociferous opponents when it comes to fare rises under the Tories are also the most vociferous opponents of government subsidies and they also want more workers to earn more money, somebody needs to teach them a lesson in basic economics. Naturally they weren''t nearly as outspoken when Labour increased fares by far larger amounts.

    The point is trains are an expensive form of transport, if people want to pay for it then fair enough, but why should the taxpayers subsidise it by billions of pounds each year? If I don't live near a train station can I have a subsidy on running a car or opt out of subsidising those who have a good train service near them?
    By good rail service do you mean London? Most rail services in the north are poor. We get unwanted trains from the south, trains run at pathetic times, trains are dirty, old (the infamous Northern rail Trains) and expensive. Loads of people I know are just priced off.

    It's probably cheaper to pay for a flatshare in Leeds now than it is to get from Harrogate to Leeds every morning

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    (Original post by James82)
    The TUC who are the most vociferous opponents when it comes to fare rises under the Tories are also the most vociferous opponents of government subsidies and they also want more workers to earn more money, somebody needs to teach them a lesson in basic economics. Naturally they weren''t nearly as outspoken when Labour increased fares by far larger amounts.

    The point is trains are an expensive form of transport, if people want to pay for it then fair enough, but why should the taxpayers subsidise it by billions of pounds each year? If I don't live near a train station can I have a subsidy on running a car or opt out of subsidising those who have a good train service near them?
    What about when oil becomes too expensive to run your car? You'll be wishing we had looked after the public transport system then.

    We need to improve public transport and make it an attractive system for people to use outside of major cities because all these cars are not a sustainable option unless you hope we wage decades of war over those with oil resources but I imagine America will get there first. Anyway if more cars were off the roads then journey times would be more efficient as well and that would help the economy. I unfortunately HAVE to drive for my job which requires site visits during the day so I don't just go to one office and then go home again. If everyone who worked in one place all day used public transport the traffic would be SO much better.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    You can walk to the train station.
    Not if you don't live near a train station.


    (Original post by OU Student)
    I can't exactly walk 40-50 odd miles just to get somewhere.
    No, but why should other people be subsidising it for you?
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    (Original post by James82)

    No, but why should other people be subsidising it for you?
    Not asking anyone too. What I am asking for is affordable train fares. How else can some people get to work?
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    Privatising public transport was probably one of the biggest mistakes the government ever made.


    When nearly most of your wage goes towards transport something is wrong and needs to be sorted and not in 3 years either.


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    (Original post by Toaster Leavings)
    What about when oil becomes too expensive to run your car? You'll be wishing we had looked after the public transport system then.
    And I suppose all our trains run on fresh air and water, they are far more resource hungry per passenger mile than a car. Besides it's irrelevant if there is no public transport in your area, yet those people are still expected to contribute to those who can make use of it.


    (Original post by Toaster Leavings)
    We need to improve public transport and make it an attractive system for people to use outside of major cities because all these cars are not a sustainable option unless you hope we wage decades of war over those with oil resources but I imagine America will get there first. Anyway if more cars were off the roads then journey times would be more efficient as well and that would help the economy. I unfortunately HAVE to drive for my job which requires site visits during the day so I don't just go to one office and then go home again. If everyone who worked in one place all day used public transport the traffic would be SO much better.
    Cities are the only place where trains come close to being a more sustainable option than a car.
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    (Original post by jblackmoustache)
    By good rail service do you mean London? Most rail services in the north are poor. We get unwanted trains from the south, trains run at pathetic times, trains are dirty, old (the infamous Northern rail Trains) and expensive. Loads of people I know are just priced off.

    It's probably cheaper to pay for a flatshare in Leeds now than it is to get from Harrogate to Leeds every morning

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    Also, road tax doesn't cover the cost of road use so non-car driving tax payers are also subsidising your journey.

    I haven't digested this in full or know if it is peer-reviewed but it could be worth examining:-
    http://www.igreens.org.uk/great_road...rt_subsidy.htm
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Not asking anyone too. What I am asking for is affordable train fares. How else can some people get to work?
    Basically you are using an expensive, resource hungry mode of transport, but want it to be cheap, how is that going to happen if you're not going to rely on government subsidies? You are showing the same flawed logic as the TUC, you want a better, cheaper service without government subsidies, it simply can't happen.
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    (Original post by jblackmoustache)
    By good rail service do you mean London? Most rail services in the north are poor. We get unwanted trains from the south, trains run at pathetic times, trains are dirty, old (the infamous Northern rail Trains) and expensive. Loads of people I know are just priced off.

    It's probably cheaper to pay for a flatshare in Leeds now than it is to get from Harrogate to Leeds every morning

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    Completely agree with this. I never had to use trains a lot before but now I'm at university it is essential. The quality of the service is abysmal. I pay £10 for a 1 hour journey where I have to stand up for an hour in cramped conditions pushing myself against a seat every 10 minutes when someone wants to get pass which is awkward for me and everyone around me.
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    What exactly is wrong with the government subisidising rail travel?
    It does so for road travel, so how can you be for that, but against subsidies for rail travel?

    And before anyone asks why should it get taxpayers money. Simple. It benefits the country and the taxpayer by allowing people to actually get to work (rather than sitting around doing nothing because they can't get to work). It benefits the country and the taxpayer by allowing people to travel and spend money (the tourism industry in this country would never have even started without the railways). Etc etc.
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    (Original post by James82)
    Basically you are using an expensive, resource hungry mode of transport, but want it to be cheap, how is that going to happen if you're not going to rely on government subsidies? You are showing the same flawed logic as the TUC, you want a better, cheaper service without government subsidies, it simply can't happen.
    Well done completely avoiding the question you quoted.
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    (Original post by James82)
    And I suppose all our trains run on fresh air and water, they are far more resource hungry per passenger mile than a car. Besides it's irrelevant if there is no public transport in your area, yet those people are still expected to contribute to those who can make use of it.




    Cities are the only place where trains come close to being a more sustainable option than a car.
    Can you cite your sources? I have strong doubts about that but without figures I shan't make up claims.

    Even if you are right, which as I said I doubt, if you price people AND businesses off the rail network then they will go on the roads and create horrendous congestion which will only lead to more road building taking up valuable land space on this small island and decreasing its inherent value. People will never be persuaded to share cars, I've never seen a car share scheme working properly. But if you improve the rail network enough then people may be convinced that they don't want to spend an hour extra each morning and evening stuck in traffic thereby making it 'less resource hungry per mile per passenger'
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    (Original post by Toaster Leavings)
    Also, road tax doesn't cover the cost of road use so non-car driving tax payers are also subsidising your journey.

    I haven't digested this in full or know if it is peer-reviewed but it could be worth examining:-
    http://www.igreens.org.uk/great_road...rt_subsidy.htm
    That study seems flawed, it clearly states that some of the rail costs are unknown, but has just assumed 0. It is also 16 years old and based on figures which are 19 years old, I think you'll find the cost of VED and fuel duty has risen considerably in real terms since then, while road building investment has decreased.

    The road network is also essential for everybody whether they drive or not, it is vital to deliver goods and post, it is necessary for emergency services and for transportation, we could all live without the railways, we would be back in the dark ages without roads.
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    I can get a flat share in Leeds (a walk away from town) which costs £260 per month (£65 per week) you can probably get one in a cheaper side of the city cheaper

    Cost of rail fare a week from Harrogate to Leeds (return) is £9 a day (which is £36) a week. Nobody lives in the centre of Harrogate though and you need to get to your estate so a week bus ticket costs £18 which bumps up the fare to £54 per week.

    If you haven't got a family ad you're simply a graduate or student you might as well move!


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    (Original post by James82)
    we could all live without the railways, we would be back in the dark ages without roads.
    Some of us aren't allowed to drive. What about us? Coaches aren't an option; as they take so long to get anywhere. (6 hours from Plymouth to London, compared with the train, which takes 3 - 3.5 hours) And I do believe it's not possible to buy open return tickets for the coach - I can do this with the train.
 
 
 
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