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    (Original post by James82)
    we could all live without the railways, we would be back in the dark ages without roads.
    What about rural areas where the train is the main link out if the place for the community? The train also brings in tourists into many if these places. Many villages in the Peak District being an example




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    Thnx for the economics unit 1 revision guys
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    (Original post by Toaster Leavings)
    Can you cite your sources? I have strong doubts about that but without figures I shan't make up claims.

    Even if you are right, which as I said I doubt, if you price people AND businesses off the rail network then they will go on the roads and create horrendous congestion which will only lead to more road building taking up valuable land space on this small island and decreasing its inherent value. People will never be persuaded to share cars, I've never seen a car share scheme working properly. But if you improve the rail network enough then people may be convinced that they don't want to spend an hour extra each morning and evening stuck in traffic thereby making it 'less resource hungry per mile per passenger'
    From various sources it is generally assumed that the emissions of 1 passenger on a train is around 60gm/km. For a car it obviously varies, but let's take the EU directive of 130gm/km being the average for company fleet cars, as soon as you have more than 2 people in a car you are being more environmentally friendly than using a train in terms of emissions. Obviously you can get cars that have lower emissions than even the single person train journey, making it better even with just 1 person in the car. This obviously only takes into account the emissions, not the construction/maintenance of roads, railways, cars or trains.

    Anyway it is kind of beside the point, railways cost X amount of money to run, yet people aren't paying nearly enough to cover the costs. They aren't universally used, but they are universally subsidised, how is that fair?
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    (Original post by jblackmoustache)
    What about rural areas where the train is the main link out if the place for the community? The train also brings in tourists into many if these places. Many villages in the Peak District being an example




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    Anywhere with a train station isn't exactly 'rural'. There are plenty of communities that have no train service anywhere near them, yet they are subsidising transport for people in cities or who are lucky enough to live within an easy commute of a station.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Some of us aren't allowed to drive. What about us? Coaches aren't an option; as they take so long to get anywhere. (6 hours from Plymouth to London, compared with the train, which takes 3 - 3.5 hours) And I do believe it's not possible to buy open return tickets for the coach - I can do this with the train.
    If you aren't allowed to drive for medical reasons or because you aren't old enough then you can get discounts on rail travel, and I have no qualms with continuing such a system. I just object to people who have no desire or option to use the railways subsidising every Tom, **** and Harry with below cost rail fares.
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    (Original post by James82)
    Anywhere with a train station isn't exactly 'rural'. There are plenty of communities that have no train service anywhere near them, yet they are subsidising transport for people in cities or who are lucky enough to live within an easy commute of a station.
    Really? It's definetly rural to me even though its ibvetween Sheffield and Manchester. Many places on the Leeds to Carlisle line in the Dales also rely on the trains to connect villages to main cities/towns

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    (Original post by James82)
    If you aren't allowed to drive for medical reasons or because you aren't old enough then you can get discounts on rail travel, and I have no qualms with continuing such a system. I just object to people who have no desire or option to use the railways subsidising every Tom, **** and Harry with below cost rail fares.
    Even with the rail card discount, it's not cheap. Not every disabled person is entitled to a disabled persons rail card.
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      This **** almost makes me want to learn to drive!
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      (Original post by James82)
      Anywhere with a train station isn't exactly 'rural'.
      lol. Seriously?
      Tell me how this isn't rural.

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi....uk_-_7315.jpg
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      Glad I bought my ticket before the New Year then. Then out of the country for 6 months. It'll hit me later on in the year sadly.
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      I am interested in the breakdown of the costs of running the railways, a lot of people here have mentioned how expensive it is to run the railway but we haven't seen much figures floating around, other than a train passenger contributes around 60g/km of CO2, which of course gives an indication of the fuel that is used per person.

      Surely public transport is supposed to be more efficeint in moving people around on a basic level more passenger less pollution per person as thier extra weight requires a small amount of extra fuel to move the train. This would be a basic take on attacking the fact that it is expensicve to run the railways.

      As far as the tax payer subsidies go, I am not sure that all of the money that the railway receives go towards passenger transport. Services such os post and haualge depend on the railways. So while some arugue that you do not use passenger railway, the money received from tax helps with moving cargo, delivering post etc. If you made those businesses pay more so less tax was used to run the railways you would see increases in nearly everything tangible that you can buy and just because tax is not being used, doesnt mean that you pay any less.
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      It is sad that they are going up, they are already a rip off where I live and i don't want to pay any extra - they have been going up by like 35p per year for half tickets and 60p for full adult tickets.
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      It is linked to RPI plus whatever. The new formula is RPI+ 1
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      (Original post by WelshBluebird)
      lol. Seriously?
      Tell me how this isn't rural.

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi....uk_-_7315.jpg
      There's also the apparently sprawling metropolis of Corrour, or Sugar Loaf.
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      It is a complete joke the price rises, I feel sorry for anyone who has to rely on the trains to get to work. The rate it is going is anyone going to be able to afford to get to work at this rate, I mean the government go on about people should use public transport, well how can we if it is expensive and over-crowded.
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      I don't like paying around £30 to get from Newcastle to York and back very often, anyone who has a daily commute, even a short one must be getting hammered by further fare increases!
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      (Original post by Morgsie)
      It is linked to RPI plus whatever. The new formula is RPI+ 1
      That means nothing to me.
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      (Original post by thunder_chunky)
      That means nothing to me.
      The Department linked some rail fares with the retail prices index years ago + a certain percentage. That is how rail fares have shot up in the past years. There is talk of changing this formula.
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      I don't use the train if I have a viable alternative. At the moment it is actually cheaper in fuel, and according to the figures quoted above, not particularly worse for the environment, for me to be picked up from University and dropped back by a parent/sibling than it is to get the train, or even the coach.
      I use Megabus to visit my partner (Coventry-Manchester is about £10 return) but to use the train would cost £40 return minimum. Sadly there's no Megabus service home.
      We should invest more in alternatives - better cross-county bus networks as these are cheaper and more fuel-efficient (I assume) than trains. It's ridiculous that I can't make the 40 mile journey home by local bus simply because I'm crossing from WestMidlands to West/Southwest on most services networks.
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      (Original post by Wattsy)
      I don't like paying around £30 to get from Newcastle to York and back very often, anyone who has a daily commute, even a short one must be getting hammered by further fare increases!
      I use coach now for trips. I paid £12 to get from Leeds to Liverpool and back. It's only 10 mins longer than train too.

      I get a nice comfy seat as well. I suppose you need to plan these days to save money


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