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    (Original post by Maxisussex)
    Cause the money could still be spent on consumerism but by other people. Rather than luxuries like fur and gold it could be spent by poorer people on basics like food and clothing.

    I'm not against consumerism just the unequal distribution of wealth used for it.

    And yes Sugar and Branson should be taxed more. You think if they pay more in tax they will lose their mansions,fast cars and other luxuries they have? They wont.
    Absolute rubbish. Where's the motivation? If everybody earned the same and the distribution of wealth was equal it just simply wouldn't work. There would be no motivation to succeed.

    That's the main problem. Motivation. Not many have it. Labour have created a work shy attitude because the state will feed you with whatever benefit you need.

    I ask you a question. A person has received £15000 a year in benefits for the past two years. They've made no effort to find a job whatsoever and don't plan to. Should they still get benefits?
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    what some people fail to realise is that welfare actually does help people the problem is is its being invested into the wrong places. There aren't enough carers in Britain so you end up with a situation where children are looking after disabled relatives. this needs to be changed
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    Flipping things on ebay for example. As in buying cheap and selling for a higher price. I did this in high school. Covered my 'pocket money.'
    It costs money to put things ob ebay.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    But where are the actual references to people being 'work-shy' and 'bone-idle' that you claimed existed? Did you lie or are you just incompetent?

    By all means paste some current full-time minimum-wage jobs available in the Newcastle upon Tyne area that do not require specific qualifications and/or experience. If you can't do that then, again, you're either lying or incompetent - you made the claim so you need to bring the evidence.
    Well, there aren't five million disabled people in this country, are there? Use your loaf, if you have one.

    Here:
    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJ...q=&pg=2&AVSDM=

    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJ...q=&pg=3&AVSDM=

    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJ...q=&pg=4&AVSDM=

    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJ...q=&pg=5&AVSDM=

    There's four right there, and I've only looked through three Jobcentre pages. And you can't restrict to full-time jobs, either, as that's being choosy, which I'm afraid isn't an option if you're on benefits.

    Or will you find fault with those as well?
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    It costs money to put things ob ebay.
    always an excuse.

    its seems the only solution you do have is to take money from people who have worked hard for it.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Sir Phillip Green is someone who has worked hard to create the businesses that he runs. Those jobs would not be if it where not for his hard work.
    Perhaps. Does he not have a duty to pay his tax though?
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    always an excuse.

    its seems the only solution you do have is to take money from people who have worked hard for it.
    Most people on benefits worked before they had to stop work.
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    (Original post by Birchington)
    Perhaps. Does he not have a duty to pay his tax though?
    Does he have a duty to pay tax? Yes.

    Is it understandable that he avoids tax when the £200 million he still paid is more than he will ever cost the state? Yes.

    He should pay the full amount required by UK law but its perfectly understandable that he could consider paying full tax to be stealing his well earned money.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    He should pay the full amount required by UK law but its perfectly understandable that he could consider paying full tax to be stealing his well earned money.
    I can understand him not wanting to pay a large amount of tax, but it's the fact that he evades tax that is the issue. His businesses require infrastructure paid for by taxpayers to operate - it's only fair that he contributes a bit back from the massive profit he makes already.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    IDS is doing some good work at the DWP. And I dont often say a Tory is doing good work tbh.

    But its time we had a serious debate in the country about how much help we give to those in need. People need to get off their state umbilical cord and stand up on their own two feet. Labour have created a society full of people totally dependent on the state, and it makes me physically sick.

    So the first thing that needs to be done, is changing peoples attitudes towards the state, ie accepting that smaller government is better and that socialist attitudes are out of date. The next step is whole sale cuts in welfare.

    I believe that welfare should be cut across the board and private charities play a greater role in peoples lifes. This could include more food banks and greater community level care.

    Discuss....
    i have highlighted the bits that are your opinion that you are trying to pass off as fact, hope this helps you understand your views are yours NOT facts, and actually entirely wrong.
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    (Original post by Birchington)
    I can understand him not wanting to pay a large amount of tax, but it's the fact that he evades tax that is the issue. His businesses require infrastructure paid for by taxpayers to operate - it's only fair that he contributes a bit back from the massive profit he makes already.
    He does, i strongly suspect the £200m he does pay more than covers any direct costs incurred by the state.
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    (Original post by alex5455)
    i have highlighted the bits that are your opinion that you are trying to pass off as fact, hope this helps you understand your views are yours NOT facts, and actually entirely wrong.
    hang on.........


    Nope, upon reading my post I can conclude at no point did i say this is a statement of the facts. it has and will always be my opinion, and the opinion of many others as a matter of fact.

    Anyway, since you like facts so much here is some for you.

    The uk's national debt stands at £1,130,023,000,000.00 (yes that is a trillion)

    The goverment is borrowing £91 billion this year. and £201 billion is been spent on welfare.

    Please tell me why you are happy to enslave future generations to a life time of public debt and misery, just so Jo Bloggs from Sunderland can by a 20 pack of Lambert & Butler and sit on his arse all day?
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    Most people on benefits worked before they had to stop work.

    So because this one fact, we should tax the wealthy even more and give all the claimants some extra money?
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Please tell me why you are happy to enslave future generations to a life time of public debt and misery, just so Jo Bloggs from Sunderland can by a 20 pack of Lambert & Butler and sit on his arse all day?
    With the way you go on, I am starting to worry about you. The reason I worry is because I fear that you may be under the impression that benefits paid to those out of work make up a massive proportion of total welfare spending.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    [nods]

    I imagine that participation in TSR is dominated by teenagers from relatively well-off backgrounds who are at (or heading for) university and who thus expect to walk into a half-decent career and life-long economic security, helped along the way in many instances by economically secure and well-educated parents. Being ignorant of the lives of the poor doesn't, however, seem to prevent them from offering up sweeping condemnations and contempt - so much for being among the 'educated classes' :rolleyes:
    You forgot to mention the government handout/help they received in the firm of a student loan


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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    With the way you go on, I am starting to worry about you. The reason I worry is because I fear that you may be under the impression that benefits paid to those out of work make up a massive proportion of total welfare spending.
    Nice job avoiding the question......

    The way people like you go on, I worry about everyone else who is a victim of your socialist greed.

    So I ask again.

    Are you happy to indebt future generations just so we can maintain the status quo with the welfare system?
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    Well, there aren't five million disabled people in this country, are there? Use your loaf, if you have one.

    Here:
    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJ...q=&pg=2&AVSDM=

    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJ...q=&pg=3&AVSDM=

    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJ...q=&pg=4&AVSDM=

    https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJ...q=&pg=5&AVSDM=

    There's four right there, and I've only looked through three Jobcentre pages. And you can't restrict to full-time jobs, either, as that's being choosy, which I'm afraid isn't an option if you're on benefits.

    Or will you find fault with those as well?
    I have a feeling he is a troll - I did the exact same thing to him, he demanded no qualifications etc and said 'Herp derp not acceptbable, shouldn't have to work, Thatcher closed the mins herp derp'.

    He acts as if having no qualifications is acceptable and that people have a right not to work!
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    I disagree. The research merely contrasts perceptions with reality. Saying that people think that 41% of the welfare budget goes to the unemployed, when in fact the actual figure is 3% is just stating fact.
    Meh, I don't think it's particularly representative of anything. Most people don't know what "welfare" encompasses - indeed, it's quite a subjective concept. Ask most people if tax credits are "welfare", officially speaking, and they won't have a clue. Even huge things, like the state pension, are pretty debatable. Indeed, I'd like to see where the Independent gets its figure from.

    I suspect they have just taken Jobseekers' Allowance and neglected to consider the other benefits people are receiving when being out of work. Housing benefit is not an "out-of-work" benefit, but if you're getting it when you're unemployed it is clearly a bit artificial to suggest that it should not be included as a benefit for being unemployed.

    Anyway, blaming all this on "the Tories" is a bit mental. People have thought that way for a very long time.
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    (Original post by dj1015)
    Nice job avoiding the question......

    The way people like you go on, I worry about everyone else who is a victim of your socialist greed.

    So I ask again.

    Are you happy to indebt future generations just so we can maintain the status quo with the welfare system?
    I didn't realise the question was aimed at me - I do apologise.

    Please tell me why you are happy to enslave future generations to a life time of public debt and misery, just so Jo Bloggs from Sunderland can by a 20 pack of Lambert & Butler and sit on his arse all day?
    This is a loaded question. Only 3% of welfare spending goes to the unemployed so I don't think the issue is as big as you make it out to be. With that said, I'll say that I am reasonably happy that we have a welfare system which supports those most in need.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    I didn't realise the question was aimed at me - I do apologise.



    This is a loaded question. Only 3% of welfare spending goes to the unemployed so I don't think the issue is as big as you make it out to be. With that said, I'll say that I am reasonably happy that we have a welfare system which supports those most in need.

    So thats your final answer?

    You want to drive this country into the ground simply to maintain our welfare system?
 
 
 
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