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Treat white working-class boys like ethnic minority, Willetts tells universities Watch

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    Universities should recruit on a students merit irrespective of his background. If white working class boys are struggling to get into Uni then tough, the same goes for ethnic minorities and other demographics.
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    So no more positive discrimination then? :eek:
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    (Original post by The Islander)
    Universities should recruit on a students merit irrespective of his background. If white working class boys are struggling to get into Uni then tough, the same goes for ethnic minorities and other demographics.
    Exactly. Why not treat everyone the same? For example, if a university is choosing someone to be my doctor, I'd want them to choose the best doctor, don't care if he's black or blue!

    With regards to feminists... don't think there will be too much of a reaction.
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    (Original post by The Islander)
    Universities should recruit on a students merit irrespective of his background. If white working class boys are struggling to get into Uni then tough, the same goes for ethnic minorities and other demographics.
    surely the school they went to should also be taken into account?
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    So the Tories who systematically closed down some major employers of white working class men in the 1980s (steel works, coal mines, shipbuilders) have finally realised the impact?
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    surely the school they went to should also be taken into account?
    what school someone has went to is irrelevent, it should be based on academic strength and a pupils achievements
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    surely the school they went to should also be taken into account?
    I thought uni's already did that And keep a record of how well those students actually achieve their predicted grades from those schools...........
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    (Original post by The Islander)
    what school someone has went to is irrelevent, it should be based on academic strength and a pupils achievements
    It would be nice if we could treat everyone equally, but because of the level of inequality in education this is hard to do.

    If a Eton public school boy and a person who went to a terrible inner-city school got the same grades would you value them equally?

    Treating everyone equally like this results in inequality...
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    It's almost like if you target one group with positive discrimination another group suffers negative discrimination. But don't worry the minister clearly has a way to combat this, more discrimination!!!
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    I thought uni's already did that And keep a record of how well those students actually achieve their predicted grades from those schools...........
    Yes they do. And The Islander is saying that is a bad thing, which I am arguing against.
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    It would be nice if we could treat everyone equally, but because of the level of inequality in education this is hard to do.

    If a Eton public school boy and a person who went to a terrible inner-city school got the same grades would you value them equally?

    Treating everyone equally like this results in inequality...
    for the third time, it should be based on a pupils merit nothing more
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    (Original post by The Islander)
    for the third time, it should be based on a pupils merit nothing more
    well, at least try to justify your view. it's ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    Yes they do. And The Islander is saying that is a bad thing, which I am arguing against.
    Well to be fair, there are many schools which are at a major disadvantage compared to other schools which have better facilities, better funding, teachers who genuinely care, better resources,etc. There will never be proper equality, where students can be all given equal education considering that its parents right to get them better things so they achieve better.
    Hence why these other factors are also taken into consideration, all its showing is that these disadvantaged student have achieved so much with a lot less then there counterparts. Thats quite fair, imagine if they got had the same resources, etc universities are simply taking into account that with they have they can actually achieve their potential.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Well to be fair, there are many schools which are at a major disadvantage compared to other schools which have better facilities, better funding, teachers who genuinely care, better resources,etc. There will never be proper equality, where students can be all given equal education considering that its parents right to get them better things so they achieve better.
    Hence why these other factors are also taken into consideration, all its showing is that these disadvantaged student have achieved so much with a lot less then there counterparts. Thats quite fair, imagine if they got had the same resources, etc universities are simply taking into account that with they have they can actually achieve their potential.
    You're preaching to the choir I already agree with you. I don't really understand why The Islander is against it. It's clear true equality is not possible at all under the current education system.
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    (Original post by caravaggio2)
    So no more positive discrimination then? :eek:
    Hopefully not.
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    It's totally irrelevant what class you're from or what colour you are. You either deserve a place at Uni or you don't. You can't just give somebody preference because they're working class and white, that's unfair on everybody else who applies.
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    (Original post by The Islander)
    what school someone has went to is irrelevent, it should be based on academic strength and a pupils achievements
    Yes, but the whole reasoning behind capitalism being 'fair' is equality of opportunity.

    Take that away from people (or stop making a show of giving it to them) and the people get restless...

    But of course, a better solution is universally good education... but that isn't really possible to implement in the short termmm
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    (Original post by Tabzqt)
    well, at least try to justify your view. it's ridiculous.
    it isn't, kids don't have a say what background they are born into and telling kids who go to the better state or private schools that their grades are worth "less" than someone else's based on nothing more than their parents socio-economic status is wrong. Universities are not here to fix our countries education system and trying to use them in that manner is nothing short of a cop out to avoid dealing with the actual problem.

    I mean if you want to start labeling grades from the same course differently based on who gets them surely we also have to start discriminating against naturally smart people? A kid with an IQ of 165 will obviously have a huge advantage over say a kid with an IQ of 100 at school and the kid with an IQ of 100 will have to work a lot harder to get the same grades so surely that should be taken into account?
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    (Original post by Darth Stewie)
    it isn't, kids don't have a say what background they are born into and telling kids who go to the better state or private schools that their grades are worth "less" than someone else's based on nothing more than their parents socio-economic status is wrong. Universities are not here to fix our countries education system and trying to use them in that manner is nothing short of a cop out to avoid dealing with the actual problem.

    I mean if you want to start labeling grades from the same course differently based on who gets them surely we also have to start discriminating against naturally smart people? A kid with an IQ of 165 will obviously have a huge advantage over say a kid with an IQ of 100 at school and the kid with an IQ of 100 will have to work a lot harder to get the same grades so surely that should be taken into account?
    I agree, they aren't here to fix our education system. But then again, looking at a candidates background is an option. I don't think it's unfair to say that a student who went to a terrible school but received good grades should be given credit for it.

    Your point about IQ is ridiculous. I made a moderate point, that a students school should be considered in their application, and you are suddenly accusing me of wanting some kind of state which evaluates students every predetermined attribute. It's a complete strawman.
 
 
 
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