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    The school
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    But how offensive or unsightly is a hijab though? It's just clothing, I think that as a society we struggle with things that we see differ from the norm..

    I also hate how religion is above the law, I read a story about this American church who were legally allowed to take seriously mind bending hallucinogens because they say it helped them connect with God. Imagine asking to use drugs like that for something like sport or music, it just wouldn't happen!
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    Could've done a poll for this.
    I am a really new member and do not know how but I will look into it.
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    (Original post by Elm Tree)
    Need more information. Could you provide a link?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-teachers.html
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    (Original post by Ebony19)
    The girl.

    She wasn't harming anyone.

    The school is harming someone.

    (Original post by TanveerSFC)
    They wont let her wear the headscarf? why not??!
    The school have uniform rules. Once we start making exceptions for religion, it becomes double standards. Allow someone to wear a headscard, other students may start wearing hats or scarves. It's simply a matter of, why does religion deserve special exceptions? And if you make special exceptions for religion, what else?
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    The school have uniform rules. Once we start making exceptions for religion, it becomes double standards. Allow someone to wear a headscard, other students may start wearing hats or scarves. It's simply a matter of, why does religion deserve special exceptions? And if you make special exceptions for religion, what else?
    But what else could they make exceptions for?


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    (Original post by Lawstudent321)
    But what else could they make exceptions for?


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    Objects of specific sentimental value, e.g. from a dead family member. Anyway, it's not so much the practical aspect, it's the principle of double standards.
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    The school. They have uniform rules, everyone should follow them or it really defeats the purpose of rules. 9 years old is also pretty young to make an informed decision about religion hence wearing a headscarf is probably forced mostly due to the parents. When she gets older and goes to university there are fewer restrictions, no uniform etc (because she's old enough to make choices for herself.) what we have to remember is that there's a reason schools have uniforms.
    Whilst technically she may be 'forced' to wear the scarf by her parents, I don't think it is fair in the context you are using it in. They are raising their child in line with their own culture.

    Why do you think schools have school uniform? The main reason I think is so all pupils identify with each over and fosters a feeling of togetherness within the school. Someone wearing a head scarf will not detract from this and will not feel less like a member of the school. Also I have heard teachers say in the past, pupils are more likely to misbehave when in non uniform. I have also been told that poorer pupils are less likely to be bullied/feel left out by other pupils wearing designer clothes etc. I don't think wearing a head scarf will increase the chances of the pupil being bullied or misbehaving. This paragraph isn't the best but I am just wondering why you think wearing a head scarf goes against the plus points of wearing school uniform.

    The school does not publish its uniform policy on its website. However, the decision to remove her from the school due to wearing a head scarf is not compatible in my opinion with the cultural diversity policy of the school:

    'promoting good relations between members of different racial, cultural and religious groups and communities'

    'Every pupil should be helped to develop a sense of personal and cultural identity that is confident and open to change and that is receptive and respectful towards other identities'

    'ethnicity, so that different cultural backgrounds and experiences of prejudice are recognised'

    Also, isn't the headscarf cultural not religious? If not, why do women in Muslim countries such as Thailand not wear the scarf? And if it not a religious garment, why should the school have any problem in allowing her to wear the scarf? Not 100% sure of this statement but I can remember hearing this in the past.
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    (Original post by l0uis)
    Whilst technically she may be 'forced' to wear the scarf by her parents, I don't think it is fair in the context you are using it in. They are raising their child in line with their own culture.

    Why do you think schools have school uniform? The main reason I think is so all pupils identify with each over and fosters a feeling of togetherness within the school. Someone wearing a head scarf will not detract from this and will not feel less like a member of the school. Also I have heard teachers say in the past, pupils are more likely to misbehave when in non uniform. I have also been told that poorer pupils are less likely to be bullied/feel left out by other pupils wearing designer clothes etc. I don't think wearing a head scarf will increase the chances of the pupil being bullied or misbehaving. This paragraph isn't the best but I am just wondering why you think wearing a head scarf goes against the plus points of wearing school uniform.

    The school does not publish its uniform policy on its website. However, the decision to remove her from the school due to wearing a head scarf is not compatible in my opinion with the cultural diversity policy of the school:

    'promoting good relations between members of different racial, cultural and religious groups and communities'

    'Every pupil should be helped to develop a sense of personal and cultural identity that is confident and open to change and that is receptive and respectful towards other identities'

    'ethnicity, so that different cultural backgrounds and experiences of prejudice are recognised'

    Also, isn't the headscarf cultural not religious? If not, why do women in Muslim countries such as Thailand not wear the scarf? And if it not a religious garment, why should the school have any problem in allowing her to wear the scarf? Not 100% sure of this statement but I can remember hearing this in the past.
    Yes, but the headscarf is a widely acknowleged religious garment, and to 'enforce' religion on a child from such a young age really isn't right in my opinion. By living in Britian they are compromising somewhat on their culture, e.g. we do not have public holidays for Eid.
    My problem is less with the headscard detracting from uniform, more that it seems unfair to make an exception soley on the grounds of religion, when other pupils wouldn't get excetions. I would say though that wearing a headscarf may detract from a sense of togetherness, it is a difference, a noticeable one at that, and there's the issue of extra coverings making someone seem less approachable. But those are side note - the main point is that I don't believe in double standards for religion.
    As a Brisish-Indian person, I'm all for multiculuralism. But we're in Britian - British dress code is different to that of other cultures - should we change it to make those from other cultures feel more comfortable? If not, then why the exception for an individual garment?
    Religion often influences cultural traditions - if it were purely cultural though there would be even less of an argument because someone cannot just decide to wear something because it's from their culture.
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    (Original post by DeadGirlsDance)
    .
    I finally worked out where your location thingys from. It was bugging me for ages - I knew I'd heard of it

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    The school is right. They have a dress code that the parents were aware of. If the parents are so bothered about their religion, they shouldn't have put her in a Greek Orthodox school, with Christian teachings, and a clear uniform.
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    If it was against the dress code when she started school (and that is the case) then I side with the school. They decide a dress code, and if it's a typical one, the justification for a uniform is so all the kids look the same - the hijab is contrary to that. Of course, if they had let her in and then changed the dress code, I side with the girl and her parents.
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    Kate Magliocco, head of St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary School in Thornton Heath, south London, said the parents were informed about their uniform policy when their child, whose brother remains a pupil at the school, was first admitted at seven.
    That settles it.

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    Can I just point out that the garment being considered doesn't cover the face, so there is no legitimate reason to object to this whilst allowing things like baseball caps etc.
    School uniforms and dress codes are pretty pointless anyway.
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    Yes, but the headscarf is a widely acknowleged religious garment, and to 'enforce' religion on a child from such a young age really isn't right in my opinion. By living in Britian they are compromising somewhat on their culture, e.g. we do not have public holidays for Eid.
    Are you agreeing that the head scarf is a cultural garment not a religious one... I am not sure? I believe it is a cultural garment and therefore whoever acknowledges it as a religious garment is wrong in my opinion. Therefore any opinions someone forms on the basis that the garment is religious are flawed. I am sure some Christian women in the middle east wear the scarf.

    (Original post by joker12345)
    My problem is less with the headscard detracting from uniform, more that it seems unfair to make an exception soley on the grounds of religion, when other pupils wouldn't get excetions. I would say though that wearing a headscarf may detract from a sense of togetherness, it is a difference, a noticeable one at that, and there's the issue of extra coverings making someone seem less approachable. But those are side note - the main point is that I don't believe in double standards for religion.
    I am not sure where you live but the area in question is an area of great cultural diversity. I do not feel someone in this area will be noticeably different/looked at different for wearing a head scarf. In less diverse areas of the country, I would say if people have difficulty approaching someone wearing a scarf why should the correct response be to ban the person from wearing the scarf? Group prejudices should not over rule an individuals freedom.


    (Original post by joker12345)
    As a Brisish-Indian person, I'm all for multiculuralism. But we're in Britian - British dress code is different to that of other cultures - should we change it to make those from other cultures feel more comfortable? If not, then why the exception for an individual garment?
    Religion often influences cultural traditions - if it were purely cultural though there would be even less of an argument because someone cannot just decide to wear something because it's from their culture.
    The first two sentences of the above paragraph are contradictory. If the parents were truly changing the dress code the child would be sent to school in full cultural dress. I hear your point about the garment being purely cultural but I believe we should respect and accommodate the culture of others.

    I have also just read the article in full and it states the schools uniform policy does not ban head scarfs. The head teacher states the uniform policy was discussed when meeting the parents. As she has reached puberty she has started wearing the scarf in line with her parents wishes which are in line with their cultural beliefs. No where in the article does it say the parents were advised that the scarf is banned before enrollment but the Mail does a good job of implying that in the first part of the article.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    That settles it.

    The school
    If you read the article is says that the school policy does not specifically ban head scarfs. The article does not say the school told the parents that head scarfs are banned. It says the uniform policy was discussed.
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    (Original post by l0uis)
    If you read the article is says that the school policy does not specifically ban head scarfs. The article does not say the school told the parents that head scarfs are banned. It says the uniform policy was discussed.
    I clearly read the article. I quoted from it.

    I would take that to imply that something relevant was said. Normally, one does not specifically "discuss" uniform with one's daughter's school. One just dresses her in whatever they ask. For it to have been discussed may well, therefore, mean that this was foreseen to be an issue.

    Perhaps it wasn't specifically said that headscarves couldn't be warn. "You must adhere to our unifrom policy, which requires these, and only these, garments to be worn" would be enough.
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    (Original post by l0uis)
    Are you agreeing that the head scarf is a cultural garment not a religious one... I am not sure? I believe it is a cultural garment and therefore whoever acknowledges it as a religious garment is wrong in my opinion. Therefore any opinions someone forms on the basis that the garment is religious are flawed. I am sure some Christian women in the middle east wear the scarf.



    I am not sure where you live but the area in question is an area of great cultural diversity. I do not feel someone in this area will be noticeably different/looked at different for wearing a head scarf. In less diverse areas of the country, I would say if people have difficulty approaching someone wearing a scarf why should the correct response be to ban the person from wearing the scarf? Group prejudices should not over rule an individuals freedom.




    The first two sentences of the above paragraph are contradictory. If the parents were truly changing the dress code the child would be sent to school in full cultural dress. I hear your point about the garment being purely cultural but I believe we should respect and accommodate the culture of others.
    I have also just read the article in full and it states the schools uniform policy does not ban head scarfs. The head teacher states the uniform policy was discussed when meeting the parents. As she has reached puberty she has started wearing the scarf in line with her parents wishes which are in line with their cultural beliefs. No where in the article does it say the parents were advised that the scarf is banned before enrollment but the Mail does a good job of implying that in the first part of the article.
    Your point seems to be that it should be allowed as it it cultural. Re the bit I bolded - how would you react if the parents wished to send the child to school in completely cultural clothing? Should this be allowed, on the grounds of 'group predjudices not ruling over individuals freedom'?
    Another thing - I would be vehemently opposed to a general ban of the headscarf, or even hijab. In public places where everyone is free to wear what they like, that is a choice. Schools however, are not such places - there are restirctions in place and everyone should follow them.
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    The side that is closest to God.


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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I clearly read the article. I quoted from it.

    I would take that to imply that something relevant was said. Normally, one does not specifically "discuss" uniform with one's daughter's school. One just dresses her in whatever they ask. For it to have been discussed may well, therefore, mean that this was foreseen to be an issue.

    Perhaps it wasn't specifically said that headscarves couldn't be warn. "You must adhere to our unifrom policy, which requires these, and only these, garments to be worn" would be enough.
    It says there was a meeting before enrollment in which the uniform policy was discussed. Surely if the school had told the parents the scarf was banned the school would be saying that now? It just says the uniform policy was discussed.

    In this country, anyone should be able to wear the scarf that does not cover their face where ever they want to. In a religious primary school - which commits itself to multiculturalism - you would expect a higher degree of tolerance. I think it is a fair to say that if the scarf was not specifically discussed in the enrollment meeting (and I am assuming it was not as the article does not state it was), the parents may not have asked about it and just assumed it was allowed (as any reasonable person would in my opinion).

    Do you agree with my previous points that the policy of banning the scarf conflicts with the schools cultural policy? If so, do you think the uniform policy is less important and therefore should be amended to comply with the cultural policy? I do.
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    Your point seems to be that it should be allowed as it it cultural. Re the bit I bolded - how would you react if the parents wished to send the child to school in completely cultural clothing? Should this be allowed, on the grounds of 'group predjudices not ruling over individuals freedom'?
    Another thing - I would be vehemently opposed to a general ban of the headscarf, or even hijab. In public places where everyone is free to wear what they like, that is a choice. Schools however, are not such places - there are restirctions in place and everyone should follow them.
    Hmm I see your point. What I would say though is that the issue is that the parents want their girl to dress with her hair and body covered in line with their culture. The rest of the uniform sufficiently covers the girl to be compatible with their culture. Compared to any western style garments that cover your hair, the scarf is much more suitable for a school I think.
 
 
 
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