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Typical ignorant transphobia from Daily Mail and its readership? Watch

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    (Original post by Funtry)
    To be brutally honest, and as much as it pains me to say this, some of the commenters are right. This should not be done on the NHS, especially with all the different places that the money could go, all the understaffed wards etc.

    If he wants to look like Harry Styles, he should save up and pay for it himself, much like I want a 20 bed mansion with a swimming pool and a tennis court, but I wont go running to my local housing authority and claim it's my right as I have a condition that means I have to live in a massive house.

    *Waits to get negged*
    Repped. I got yo back Cuzz.
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    It's the daily mail,it's almost as satirical as the onion. It's the right wing pond scum of the inter web,ignore them.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    That would be a pretty radical view. No longer removing warts? Other facial disfigurements? No fixing children who have ambiguous genitalia? No longer repairing people after disfiguring accidents? After cancer surgery?
    Hmm. I guess you have a point. The thing is, what makes transgender people different from people who are (clinically) depressed about their appearance? We would try to treat their depression. I just think it's more appropriate we try to treat the gender identity problem.
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    Hmm. I guess you have a point. The thing is, what makes transgender people different from people who are (clinically) depressed about their appearance? We would try to treat their depression. I just think it's more appropriate we try to treat the gender identity problem.
    I do not think the origin of this is the same as depression. Most people who talk about their transgender issues talk of knowing they identified as a different gender since they were extremely young. I do not think any of this is properly understood, however I would guess being transgendered is much like being gay or being a psychopath - ingrained, not a developed mental illness (i.e. depression). Anyway, it is like treating depression, most illnesses are treated in different ways. You treat serious depression with medication, you treat gender dysphoria with aligning sex/appearance with identified gender (as much as possible). Maybe there is some possible way of treating it with medication, however there is not at the moment, there needs to be more research into it (and now there is more awareness about the condition hopefully there will be more research)... though that isn't easy. What do we do in the mean time? Let people keep killing themselves and despising themselves? Ignore their illness?
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    (Original post by yeahman1)
    No way! She needs mental help so she can become happy with who she is, not surgery.
    If I recall correctly, sex changes are the last resort for treating the condition.
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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    I do not think the origin of this is the same as depression. Most people who talk about their transgender issues talk of knowing they identified as a different gender since they were extremely young. I do not think any of this is properly understood, however I would guess being transgendered is much like being gay or being a psychopath - ingrained, not a developed mental illness (i.e. depression). Anyway, it is like treating depression, most illnesses are treated in different ways. You treat serious depression with medication, you treat gender dysphoria with aligning sex/appearance with identified gender (as much as possible). Maybe there is some possible way of treating it with medication, however there is not at the moment, there needs to be more research into it (and now there is more awareness about the condition hopefully there will be more research)... though that isn't easy. What do we do in the mean time? Let people keep killing themselves and despising themselves? Ignore their illness?
    People are not born gay, people are not born psychopaths and people are not with born gender identity disorder. While a great deal of potential causes of homosexuality, GID, psychopathy and depression can develop pre-nataly, the brain isn't anywhere near developed enough to say people are born with any of these issues. They develop over time from a whole series of factors.

    While I do think gender reassignment surgery is a good potential treatment for some GID cases. But the way this person (in the article) is portraying themselves is the wrong way to do it. I do think however, that the Daily Mail may be latching onto the idea about looking like the 1D singer more than she is.

    As for calling her a she. Technically she is a she, and I see nothing wrong with that.
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    Hmm. I guess you have a point. The thing is, what makes transgender people different from people who are (clinically) depressed about their appearance? We would try to treat their depression.
    A key aspect of resolving depression is resolving the circumstances that are leading to the problem. We help them find a job, we help them with relationship problems, get housing from the council... i don't see how changing a gender is necessarily any different.

    I just think it's more appropriate we try to treat the gender identity problem.
    Gender reassignment is often very successful. If that isn't reating the gender identity problem, i don't know what is!

    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    As for calling her a she. Technically she is a she, and I see nothing wrong with that.
    Sure. However, i could pick up on a feature you consider negative about yourself (say, you're balding) and call you 'balding guy' all day. Its technically correct as you say and you'll know who i'm talking about, but also downright rude.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    A key aspect of resolving depression is resolving the circumstances that are leading to the problem. We help them find a job, we help them with relationship problems, get housing from the council... i don't see how changing a gender is necessarily any different.



    Gender reassignment is often very successful. If that isn't reating the gender identity problem, i don't know what is!



    Sure. However, i could pick up on a feature you consider negative about yourself (say, you're balding) and call you 'balding guy' all day. Its technically correct as you say and you'll know who i'm talking about, but also downright rude.
    I made the point specifically of depression regarding appearance, we wouldn't think to offer surgery on the NHS for that, would we? Though surgery may be effective, hence why many people do have cosmetic surgery. But the treatment for depression due to appearance would be to treat the depression.

    Re the other point - it's conventional that we refer to someone by gender, essentially depending on their genitalia. We do not randomly refer to people by any other features, so your example isn't really comparable.
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    (Original post by Maxisussex)
    It's the daily mail,it's almost as satirical as the onion. It's the right wing pond scum of the inter web,ignore them.
    So what do you read, then?
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    A point. You're having a go at the daily mail and it's readership for being ignorant with regards to transgender issues. Now ignorance isn't a good thing, but you don't berate people for being ignorant. If somebody is genuinely ignorant it should be your duty to alleviate their ignorance. By giving them information.

    There's nothing wrong with being ignorant so long as you don't stay that way once you realise that you are. Ignorance is not something worth pointing out about a person seeing how everybody is ignorant about something.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    So what do you read, then?
    The daily mail bwahaha. But I rarely get my comments punished and when I do it's the ones the only mildly abuse the paper and its right wing readers.
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    I use and recommend this FF add-on:
    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/fir.../kitten-block/
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    (Original post by Maxisussex)
    The daily mail bwahaha. But I rarely get my comments punished and when I do it's the ones the only mildly abuse the paper and its right wing readers.
    No, seriously, what papers/news sources do you prefer?
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    No, seriously, what papers/news sources do you prefer?
    For serious news BBC wins everytime,dm is purely for the "satire"
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    I don't see why you're getting so worked up over this. Firstly, into she has surgery, she is a she, she still has boobs and a vagina (legally speaking, even her passport will state female). Secondly, why should the tax payers pay for her? They might as well pay for me to have plastic surgery as I'd love to look like Brad Pitt.

    Awaiting negs and abuse.
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    I made the point specifically of depression regarding appearance, we wouldn't think to offer surgery on the NHS for that, would we? Though surgery may be effective, hence why many people do have cosmetic surgery. But the treatment for depression due to appearance would be to treat the depression.
    Depends on severity. If it were cost-effective to provide cosmetic surgery for depression, we would. As it is, its only appropriate for extreme cases (but that doesn't mean it isn't done).

    Furthermore, gender reassignment is more than cosmetic. Stopping periods is a big part, behaviour will change, metabolism... a lot of important things.

    Re the other point - it's conventional that we refer to someone by gender, essentially depending on their genitalia. We do not randomly refer to people by any other features, so your example isn't really comparable.
    Whilst gender-based pronouns do hold a special place in our language, i still feel my example to be comparable. You are still referring to someone by pointing out a characteristic they feel negatively about.
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    Hmm. I guess you have a point. The thing is, what makes transgender people different from people who are (clinically) depressed about their appearance? We would try to treat their depression. I just think it's more appropriate we try to treat the gender identity problem.
    I can't help but agree with this. If somebody has severe depression and suicidal tendencies because of how they perceive their appearance and their body it could be argued that the NHS should fund plastic surgery operations in order for them to transform their body into one they are more comfortable in.

    There are cheaper treatments the NHS can fund e.g. hormone injections and psychotherapy. Breast removal, genitalia modifications and all other major surgery should be private only.

    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    As for calling her a she. Technically she is a she, and I see nothing wrong with that.
    (Original post by Michaelj)
    I don't see why you're getting so worked up over this. Firstly, into she has surgery, she is a she, she still has boobs and a vagina (legally speaking, even her passport will state female).
    It's respectful to call him a 'he' as that is how he identifies. You could call me half-caste but I identify as mixed race and would much rather be called that.

    Secondly, why should the tax payers pay for her? They might as well pay for me to have plastic surgery as I'd love to look like Brad Pitt.
    Poor example. You don't have a severe mental health issue. Your justification to look like Brad Pitt is pure vanity.
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    (Original post by joker12345)
    Re the other point - it's conventional that we refer to someone by gender, essentially depending on their genitalia. We do not randomly refer to people by any other features, so your example isn't really comparable.
    (Original post by Michaelj)
    I don't see why you're getting so worked up over this. Firstly, into she has surgery, she is a she, she still has boobs and a vagina (legally speaking, even her passport will state female).
    It is conventional to refer to someone by their gender, but their gender has nothing to do with their genitalia. Sex is to do with genitalia, gender is in your mind. This boy is a he, as he is a boy (gender), although he may have a female body and female genitalia (sex).
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    I'll leave this here for anyone who is confused about the he/she issue:

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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    if you read the article (or better - watch the video) you will see that this person has struggled with gender identity throughout their life and harry styles is simply a style icon/physical role model... much like many girls choosing to dress like rihanna or guys like david beckham.
    The thing I can't understand is, gender identity disorder is a mental illness, just like body dysmorphic disorder. But people with BDD aren't given the surgery many of them desperately want, and are instead treated with medication and therapy. Why is GID any different? Why are these people not simply treated in the same way all other people with mental illnesses are, with the option of paying for their own surgery if they want it?

    This is a genuine question I must add. If there was enough money to go around I'd be all for people with gender identity disorder having surgery, but the fact is, some people with serious mental health problems can't even get therapy to help them, never mind something that would require the expertise of a doctor.
 
 
 
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