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Views on Falkland & Britain/Argentina's relationship?? Watch

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    (Original post by L i b)
    They might have a decent reserve of oil, we don't know yet. And even then, does the UK get any of it? I genuinely don't know as they keep all their other local taxes internally.

    They are self-sufficient but don't pay for the services the UK performs on their behalf, namely defence, foreign affairs and a few other bits and bobs. The first one is the main cost, and it is significant.
    As I said in another posts, defence are sunk costs. It's not like we'd be saving any money, those troops would simply be in Germany or Cyprus or somewhere else. They also shouldn't be expected to cough up more just because there is a major military base there, no more than I should have to pay higher taxes because there is an RAF base near where I live. Their per capita share of defence costs would be around £1.3 million a year. We're also doing a pretty crappy job representing them foreign affairs wise; we've done next to nothing to counter Argentina's trade sanctions on the Falklands or their endless *****ing at the UN, so I think we can let that one slide.
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    I'm going to put forward a purely hypothetical question - If the Argies were to mount a second invasion that turned out, despite being very bloody for both sides, quite successful, what would be the true reaction of Britain and any possible contributors there after?

    I don't want responses questioning the capability of Argentina to achieve this as we are all well aware that calling it a long shot is an understatment, the question is purely hypothetical.
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    (Original post by Mockery)
    I'm going to put forward a purely hypothetical question - If the Argies were to mount a second invasion that turned out, despite being very bloody for both sides, quite successful, what would be the true reaction of Britain and any possible contributors there after?

    I don't want responses questioning the capability of Argentina to achieve this as we are all well aware that calling it a long shot is an understatment, the question is purely hypothetical.
    Since we have no carriers I think a 1982-style taskforce succeeding would be impossible. I think our entire strategy for the defence of the islands is centred around the garrison already there. I'd imagine they'd dig in, hold the line and await re-inforcements via the airfield. If that fails, I think we're screwed.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Since we have no carriers I think a 1982-style taskforce succeeding would be impossible. I think our entire strategy for the defence of the islands is centred around the garrison already there. I'd imagine they'd dig in, hold the line and await re-inforcements via the airfield. If that fails, I think we're screwed.
    Then let us throw in another hypothetical element, lets say that the Argentine force was accompanied by a vast number of troops from a selection of other South American countries. At what point does this press towards an international war as opposed to a territorial dispute?

    The amount of British casualties would exceed that of in 1982..

    How would Chile react to this?
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    (Original post by Mockery)
    Then let us throw in another hypothetical element, lets say that the Argentine force was accompanied by a vast number of troops from a selection of other South American countries. At what point does this press towards an international war as opposed to a territorial dispute?
    Any non-Argentine country getting involved would most certainly tip it from a territorial dispute into a fully-fledged international war. That would hopefully swing international sympathy in our favour, although you never can trust the Americans IMO...Might also give us more leeway in how we deal with the invasion, like sending some nuclear subs down there and declaring that hunting season has started.

    (Original post by Mockery)
    The amount of British casualties would exceed that of in 1982..
    I'm hoping that would instill a 'blitz spirit' in the UK. Although the trade unions would probably get all uppity like they did last time...
    Also, for Argentina, casualties would be astronomical. If they do manage to turn over the garrison on the island, it would be a pyrrhic victory at best. Maybe enough to turn the Argentine population against the war.

    (Original post by Mockery)
    How would Chile react to this?
    I fear that unfortunately the days of pro-British Chile are long gone. They appear to be pro-Argentina now, for the sake of Latin solidarity.
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    I think we should give them to Chad. They've been landlocked for ages. It would be a nice gesture.
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    If the people of the Falkland Islands want to be remain a British overseas territory then Argentina and Britain should respect that, simple as.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Any non-Argentine country getting involved would most certainly tip it from a territorial dispute into a fully-fledged international war. That would hopefully swing international sympathy in our favour, although you never can trust the Americans IMO...Might also give us more leeway in how we deal with the invasion, like sending some nuclear subs down there and declaring that hunting season has started.
    Unfortunately not, in the light of such events I'd expect them to suddenly become very quiet.

    The use of any nuclear weaponary would swiftly abolish any international sympathy we may have gained.

    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    I'm hoping that would instill a 'blitz spirit' in the UK. Although the trade unions would probably get all uppity like they did last time...
    Also, for Argentina, casualties would be astronomical. If they do manage to turn over the garrison on the island, it would be a pyrrhic victory at best. Maybe enough to turn the Argentine population against the war.
    It would be a sad day to watch us declare defeat in such a manner, but what action could we actually take? Would an invasion of mainland Argentina no longer be the most farfetched suggestion?

    I'm struggling to find a reasonable solution if such an incident was to occur, I feel that we are completely relying on the first line of defence.
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    (Original post by Mockery)
    The use of any nuclear weaponary would swiftly abolish any international sympathy we may have gained.
    Woah, I never said nuclear weapons, just nuclear subs.

    (Original post by Mockery)
    It would be a sad day to watch us declare defeat in such a manner, but what action could we actually take? Would an invasion of mainland Argentina no longer be the most farfetched suggestion?
    Well again, with no aircraft carriers and a pitiful navy a re-invasion of the Falklands would be hard enough, let alone Argentina.

    (Original post by Mockery)
    I'm struggling to find a reasonable solution if such an incident was to occur, I feel that we are completely relying on the first line of defence.
    Well it's a pretty damn good first line of defence I reckon. I'm not too sure on the logistics of it, but I suppose a possible plan if the Falklands falls would be a submarine and destroyer blockade to starve the Argentines of supplies, then launch a small-scale commando invasion via submarines using Marines, Paras, Special Forces and Gurkhas.
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    (Original post by Mockery)
    I'm going to put forward a purely hypothetical question - If the Argies were to mount a second invasion that turned out, despite being very bloody for both sides, quite successful, what would be the true reaction of Britain and any possible contributors there after?

    I don't want responses questioning the capability of Argentina to achieve this as we are all well aware that calling it a long shot is an understatment, the question is purely hypothetical.
    If it were only the Argies then they would have no chance (we have some of the most advanced ships and submarines in the world) and we could well sink their entire fleet.

    Were Brazil or any other nation to join them however we would be pretty screwed given that USA support is 50/50 with Obama and also that France probably would'nt back us given that Hollande is no Sarkozy and we are in general being whiny little *****es when it comes to Europe as a whole.

    We must rely on the fact that 1 on 1 they can't beat us.
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    depends, is there oil/gas?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    If it were only the Argies then they would have no chance (we have some of the most advanced ships and submarines in the world) and we could well sink their entire fleet.

    Were Brazil or any other nation to join them however we would be pretty screwed given that USA support is 50/50 with Obama and also that France probably would'nt back us given that Hollande is no Sarkozy and we are in general being whiny little *****es when it comes to Europe as a whole.

    We must rely on the fact that 1 on 1 they can't beat us.
    My immediate impression would be that an escalation of that nature would make it easier and more justifiable to round up a posse rather than do it on our own.

    The NATO treaty of course only extends to Europe, North America etc. The new EU mutual defence clause which was contained in the Lisbon Treaty, however, might be useful here - although there may be some arguments that the Falklands, despite being a British territory, are not part of the EU or technically part of the United Kingdom, which is the member-state.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    My immediate impression would be that an escalation of that nature would make it easier and more justifiable to round up a posse rather than do it on our own.

    The NATO treaty of course only extends to Europe, North America etc. The new EU mutual defence clause which was contained in the Lisbon Treaty, however, might be useful here - although there may be some arguments that the Falklands, despite being a British territory, are not part of the EU or technically part of the United Kingdom, which is the member-state.
    Perhaps although if it were Brazil then our posse may decide not to act.

    I should really read that thing at some point.
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    IT should be down to the islanders, but apparently they wanna be British. I just think the way Argentina are carrying off is silly. I mean it was on the news saying "Argentina has asked Britain to hand over the falkland islands". Like were just gonna go "oh okay then, there you go" :L
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    I do wish people would stop acting like children in this regard. We're British for god's sake, and we're in the right in this situation. We don't need to threaten the Argentinians, or humiliate them, or take out pointless articles in their papers or even bother responding to their provocations.

    They are provoking us to try and get a reaction which they can use for their own political interests. The only response should be to start reading from the Charter of the United Nations:

    'To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;'

    Its the only response that won't lead to more tension.
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    What a lot of people don't seem to get is that the self-determination argument cuts both ways. In other words, it's not enough for the Falklanders to want to be British; the British have to want the Falklanders as well. At the moment, that's still the case, but I think it will gradually fade. I don't think a day will ever come when the Falklanders don't want to be British, but I do think a day will eventually come when the British don't want the Falklanders to be British.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    What a lot of people don't seem to get is that the self-determination argument cuts both ways. In other words, it's not enough for the Falklanders to want to be British; the British have to want the Falklanders as well. At the moment, that's still the case, but I think it will gradually fade. I don't think a day will ever come when the Falklanders don't want to be British, but I do think a day will eventually come when the British don't want the Falklanders to be British.
    Bah, never!
    What makes you say this?
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    apathetic.
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    Hopefully something similar to Starship Troopers will happen when Buenos Aires gets destroyed
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    Such a pathetic country, how can they start a war and then moan when one of there ships is sunk.
 
 
 
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