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    (Original post by dr-jimmy)
    ^This is actually so true though, if someone has a problem about something why would they then complicate the matter further by refusing to say what the issue is? It's stupid because then the guy will get frustrated as he doesn't know what he's done wrong, and it will make everything worse. Instead of playing *****y little mind games some girls really need to learn to just explain what upset them.
    This is where the problem arises. The OP perhaps went a bit overboard saying girls want guys to be telepathic, but actually, I would say from my experience, girls in that situation want guys to be attentive to the fact that they are upset.

    If a girl constantly tells a guy something is wrong she will be told off for nagging him so much or for crying at silly things. And sometimes the silent treatment (I don't advocate it) can be used as a punishment - that's why some girls might not talk.

    Instead of getting frustrated the guy can just ask why she's upset. That works.
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    (Original post by PapercutMagnet)
    This is where the problem arises. The OP perhaps went a bit overboard saying girls want guys to be telepathic, but actually, I would say from my experience, girls in that situation want guys to be attentive to the fact that they are upset.

    If a girl constantly tells a guy something is wrong she will be told off for nagging him so much or for crying at silly things. And sometimes the silent treatment (I don't advocate it) can be used as a punishment - that's why some girls might not talk.

    Instead of getting frustrated the guy can just ask why she's upset. That works.
    Yeah I know what you mean, if the girl was obviously upset and the guy asked why I can't see why that would cause an argument. But often girls sort of expect people to instinctively know and understand their pain and treat them with the greatest sympathy- much to the bemusement of everyone else. It's just a bit pathetic to be honest, if you're upset and people can't understand why, just explain to them.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    I fail to see how the first half of that statement goes with the second. The fact that men come quicker as others have pointed out has absolutely nothing to do with a women satisfaction because sex is slightly more than vaginal sex. If your sex in anyway ends with you getting less pleasure than the guy, you have **** sex, its a simple as that.
    Purely from the anecdotes of my friends and my own experiences while many men are good at compensating and a few don't come quicker than their girlfriends, most of what I hear and have experienced is that men come first, and then they're less motivated to ensure you reach orgasm, don't care or just don't know how to touch their woman and so she fakes it so he doesn't feel bad.

    Maybe the OP was basing it on her own experiences as well which isn't very scientific but still has some value. Who knows.
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    I have to say, while im not guilty of most of those things, i think your reasons aren't too far off the mark
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    (Original post by PapercutMagnet)
    I agree that double standards should be shot, but I think women are more subjected to double standards than men, the most common one being the slut/player labelling. The best way to work it out is to apply it to the opposite gender and see if it seems unfair.
    As an individual example of double standards, yes that one is one of the worst and of course women come off worse. But I think in relationships there are a lot of smaller, less significant double standards that are applied by women. Also I think it is just a fact that the whole 'player/****' conundrum is more memorable because it is quite universal, whereas the little double standards applied between 2 people in a relationship tend to differ quite a lot from person to person so they are less memorable.

    To give a few examples:
    - I've known a lot of girls in relationships who, presumably due to jealousy, have tried to control/stop their boyfriends from hanging around with their female friends. Much less so the other way around.
    - I have heard several girls voice the opinion that it's not OK for their guy to chat up another girl, but it's alright for them to allow other men to chat them up and buy them drinks (this one really knarks me tbh).
    - How the VAST majority of women would be really hurt if you commented negatively on some aspect of their appearance, such as not liking their hair, weight gain, etc, but yet a lot of women wouldn't think twice about making similar comments about their men. I'm not suggesting they do it maliciously - on the contrary it usually seems to be a bit of fun to them like saying 'Oooh he's getting a bit of a beer belly isn't he?' as a joke - where actually such a joke made in reverse would be viewed as totally unacceptable.

    I'm not saying it's not a two-way street because it certainly is, but I think on balance guys are a bit more straightforward and fairer with their expectations of their women than women are with their men.
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    Hum,
    I don't know.

    I do not think that women can be so clearly boxed. As if all women are inherently a certain way.
    I always find these -boys are like this- -girls are like this- threads quite unsettling.

    Surely it would be better to have the human mind unveiled?
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    (Original post by Kenocide)
    As an individual example of double standards, yes that one is one of the worst and of course women come off worse. But I think in relationships there are a lot of smaller, less significant double standards that are applied by women. Also I think it is just a fact that the whole 'player/****' conundrum is more memorable because it is quite universal, whereas the little double standards applied between 2 people in a relationship tend to differ quite a lot from person to person so they are less memorable.

    To give a few examples:
    - I've known a lot of girls in relationships who, presumably due to jealousy, have tried to control/stop their boyfriends from hanging around with their female friends. Much less so the other way around.
    - I have heard several girls voice the opinion that it's not OK for their guy to chat up another girl, but it's alright for them to allow other men to chat them up and buy them drinks (this one really knarks me tbh).
    - How the VAST majority of women would be really hurt if you commented negatively on some aspect of their appearance, such as not liking their hair, weight gain, etc, but yet a lot of women wouldn't think twice about making similar comments about their men. I'm not suggesting they do it maliciously - on the contrary it usually seems to be a bit of fun to them like saying 'Oooh he's getting a bit of a beer belly isn't he?' as a joke - where actually such a joke made in reverse would be viewed as totally unacceptable.

    I'm not saying it's not a two-way street because it certainly is, but I think on balance guys are a bit more straightforward and fairer with their expectations of their women than women are with their men.
    Now you mention it, I agree that there are smaller double standards within relationships.

    -Girls do get more jealous (don't even get me started), and in some situations they are controlling, but I've seen that it's okay for boys to talk to other girls but not girls to talk to boys. You said that happens less, but even if girls voice it more, I think it happens the same both ways.
    -That is disgusting.
    -I do agree that happens, but there is a huge difference in the effect. Low self-esteem due to appearance affects girls in a huge way so I do understand why it's acceptable. I'm not saying guys don't have these issues, but it affects less of them or to a lesser extent. All the same, either way it shouldn't be acceptable if it upsets someone.

    I disagree with the first part but agree that girls are not always fair with their expectations. Double standards favouring guys are ingrained into society and I know that's a hard thing for both women and men to realise when it's treated as normal.
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    (Original post by Eljamaispa)
    How can you judge that I understand incorrectly? You haven't even asked what I understand.

    Gender identity - a person's subjective view of their gender
    Gender - determined by a person's genitalia
    Psychology's role - well, really genetic gender differences cause gender differences in neurophysiology and thus trends showing gender differences of behaviour.
    Society's role - society has ultimately superficial standards of what makes a man a man and a woman a woman. For instance a woman likes shopping, security, handbags, men, they have boobs and vaginas and all the rest. A man likes machines, violence, women, has a penis etc.

    Not conforming to society's standards can attract questioning by others of your sexuality. Why? Because 'feminine' or 'camp' men (e.g. like shopping, men) are associated with homosexuality. 'Masculine' or 'butch' women (e.g. like cars, women, not wearing make-up) are associated with homosexuality.

    But like I said I've yet to read round the subject properly. One of my friend recently went from a she to a he so I'm more inspired to do so.

    I've seen the documentary you've linked to. It was very interesting.
    Ok, sorry if I came on at bit too strongly, you make valid points.
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    (Original post by HFerguson)
    look up the definition of subjective please..
    I know full well what subjective means. What I'm saying is that thinking that morality is purely subjective could justify any atrocity, Things have meaning because we give them meaning.
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    Why do people try to make everything a science? Individuals can be treated on an individual level. Sweeping generalisations of the female or male mind is armchair psychology at most.
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    (Original post by ForKicks)
    Why do people try to make everything a science? Individuals can be treated on an individual level. Sweeping generalisations of the female or male mind is armchair psychology at most.
    Certain traits are more prevalent in certain demographics than others, and it is worthy of investigation. I'm getting pretty sick of the whole "Don't generalise!" in every single thread like this.
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    (Original post by Dragonfly07)
    Edit:
    4) Girls go for *******s

    Explanations: girls don't go for *******s. The guys who consider themselves "nice" and every other potential guy an "*******" are actually the *******s themselves, and the "*******s" who are reading this will understand what I mean.

    If you think you're a nice guy and you aren't sure why you keep getting rejected, then take the time to read this article and see if the description fits you: http://www.heartless-*****es.com/ran...niceguys.shtml

    _ _ _
    I'd disagree with this point. Everyone thinks they're a nice person and everyone has someone who disagrees with that idea. I think there are a lot of nice guys who are ignored by women, but in general, they are ignored by most guys too. "Nice guys" in my experience are people who are friendly and kind and maybe smart or witty as well, but don't have much to offer beyond that. They can tell you that they're not a **** and they're not a bully and they don't do this or they don't do that. They can give a huge list of things they don't do but not a very long list of what they can do.

    There's a reason a lot of "nice guys" take up an instrument, because then they become a "musician", and that's interesting. That's a skill to take notice of. That takes dedication, which is something a lot of "nice guys" lack.

    I agree with the article about nice guys being insecure. I think they're so insecure they stop themselves even trying to achieve any sort of self-improvement. Most people are good people, it's the skills that you have that make you stand out from the crowd and if all you've got going for you is that you're "nice" then is it any wonder that nobody wants to be with you when they can find someone who is nice AND plays guitar, or is nice AND cooks like a chef, or is nice AND can teach you to mix cocktails / do first aid / make origami cranes, etc. etc.
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    (Original post by Arnob204)
    Certain traits are more prevalent in certain demographics than others, and it is worthy of investigation. I'm getting pretty sick of the whole "Don't generalise!" in every single thread like this.
    Statistics and demographics may pick up on general traits and trends, but it is a blunt instrument that is not effective for the world of personal relationships. However, they are fantastic for things like marketing campaigns!
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    (Original post by Arnob204)
    Certain traits are more prevalent in certain demographics than others, and it is worthy of investigation. I'm getting pretty sick of the whole "Don't generalise!" in every single thread like this.
    Well I would not say these are being investigated.
    I think most of the investigation on here is simply of the perceived traits of females, and males.

    Human are ever so complex and the problem with generalising is its inaccuracy. Also will such a large demographic as 'females' there is no way we can come to any conclusions!
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    (Original post by Eljamaispa)
    Purely from the anecdotes of my friends and my own experiences while many men are good at compensating and a few don't come quicker than their girlfriends, most of what I hear and have experienced is that men come first, and then they're less motivated to ensure you reach orgasm, don't care or just don't know how to touch their woman and so she fakes it so he doesn't feel bad.

    Maybe the OP was basing it on her own experiences as well which isn't very scientific but still has some value. Who knows.
    The point isn't that men don't come quicker than girls. It know the concept is probably mind boggling but perhaps you simply have a staggered start? Focus on the girl to begin with, give her a bit of attention beforehand? Then you don't need to last 20mins, perhaps only 5 or 10.
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    (Original post by Dragonfly07)

    If you think you're a nice guy and you aren't sure why you keep getting rejected, then take the time to read this article and see if the description fits you: http://www.heartless-*****es.com/ran...niceguys.shtml

    Thank you so much for that link. I had this major crush on a girl for like three years, and she bled me dry money-wise. I feel like such a chump. I told her how i felt about her new years eve and she turned me down. I've been moping ever since and after reading that article i feel like such an idiot, and it all fits into place.

    I knew her for a while before i took notice of her, and had never had a girlfriend before. I was confident, cocky and full of myself. Thats when she first took notice of me - she tried to arrange stuff with me, get me to go places with her and i did - she was hot, so why not. Time went on and she was pretty insecure herself and nothing ended up happening. So i tried harder, and harder, and ended up being insecure myself thinking something was wrong with me. I have been an insecure wreak this past year desperate for her approval - i'd text her every few days and half the time she'd never even bother to reply. I'd log onto facebook hoping she liked my status. I was pathetic.

    Time to man the **** up.
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    Jesus christ come to think about it shes done this to 3 other guys, and the dates in which they all told her they were in love with her or "wanted to be more than friends" and when she started seeing the next one all tie together. This is like watching the end of The Sixth Sense.
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    Every girl I've spoken to is entirely different, no two minds are the same.

    I'm glad to see you have been able to speak for the entire female population though!

    If all women were as how you posted, this world would be an even duller place.
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    (Original post by sugar-n-spice)
    He has got a point a point, I don't know if any rigorous definitions exist but looking at them in terms of when they appeared.

    First wave-20's 30's:

    Suffragettes
    Voting
    Property laws

    Second wave-60's:


    Reproductive rights
    Divorce rights
    Opposition to forced gender roles

    Third wave-now:

    Slutwalk
    "Women don't behave like men because of socialisation"
    Employment equality

    No. What? Just no.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    No. What? Just no.
    What about it do you disagree with?

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