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A very simple question (immigration & foreign aid) Watch

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    As the majority of the people are here on TSR are immigrant students themselves... or at least have very left wing, liberal views on the matter, people here seem to be able to grasp the concept of what they see as a justified answer the the question I am about to ask...

    So I ask you,

    As the homeless go without eating,
    Elderly go without needed medicine and care,
    Mentally ill go without treatment,
    Brave soldiers go without equipment,
    Veterans go without promised benefits,
    The young go without jobs,

    How does one justify this as the cost of donating billions to other countries in so called "foreign aid", as well as the cost of the overwhelming and excessive inbound immigration that the UK has been experiencing since 1994 - present? Costing the United Kingdom billions upon billions of £.

    I need help with understanding how this has been, and still is allowed to happen?
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    Actually on second thought... I have just read the thread containing the information on how the original founders of this United Kingdom (white British people) / (people of Anglo Saxon, Germanic, Celtic, Nordic heritage)... are now shockingly a minority in their own capital city of London, and are now over-shadowed by those who immigrated to the United Kingdom only after it was established... the vast majority of which being in the time-frame of 1994 - present. Thanks Tony!

    So I think I'll abandon this thread as my question has already been indirectly answered,

    And I'll try my best to come to terms with British people becoming a minority in Britain... neglecting it's "own" in every way imaginable,
    As if I don't come to terms with it then that means I'm racist right? I wouldn't want that.
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    (Original post by fakeprada)
    As the majority of the people are here on TSR are immigrant students themselves... or at least have very left wing, liberal views on the matter, people here seem to be able to grasp the concept of what they see as a justified answer the the question I am about to ask...

    So I ask you,

    As the homeless go without eating,
    Elderly go without needed medicine and care,
    Mentally ill go without treatment,
    Brave soldiers go without equipment,
    Veterans go without promised benefits,
    The young go without jobs,

    How does one justify this as the cost of donating billions to other countries in so called "foreign aid", as well as the cost of the overwhelming and excessive inbound immigration that the UK has been experiencing since 1994 - present? Costing the United Kingdom billions upon billions of £.


    I need help with understanding how this has been, and still is allowed to happen?
    All of that happening is not the fault of giving foreign aid, it's the fault of the government of the time being useless *****. Foreign aid gets a lot of bad press because we give it to countries have poverty like you wouldn't believe but also has a space program. That doesn't mean we should stop giving to them but it does mean their priorities suck and they need to rethink their priorities. Meanwhile they still have terrible poverty, slums full of people living and dying far below the breadline.
    Giving the money itself is not an issue, it's how it's used by the country we give it to and how effective it is. It's the management of it. That's the real issue, but people just see aid being given to a country with a space program and they're like "OMG WHY ARE WE GIVING THEM MONEY????!!!!!11111" You can't win with people like that.

    If money from a rich western 1st world nation can help at least some people and prevent them from dying of hunger or disease then I'd say go for it. It doesn't have to be self preservation or foreign aid, both can be done at the same time it just needs proper management.
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    I believe that all foreign aid shoiuld be stopped. Foreign aid prolongs misery and suffering in countries that cannot control its birthrate and hence have an exploding population.
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    I think the OP asks a very good question, after all we do spend a lot of money on foreign aid and a lot of it is wasted/ not helpful. Take Rwanda for example, they pretty much funded a war using British taxpayers money.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2190339
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    1)Philosophical rebuttal: I do not have any sort of moral obligation to my 'own' countrymen simply by virtue of a shared birthplace.

    2)Pragmatic rebuttal: Numerous studies affirm that immigration has more benefits than losses, in economic terms; aid helps nurture trade, foreign strategic interests.
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    (Original post by fakeprada)
    As the majority of the people are here on TSR are immigrant students themselves... or at least have very left wing, liberal views on the matter, people here seem to be able to grasp the concept of what they see as a justified answer the the question I am about to ask...

    So I ask you,

    As the homeless go without eating,
    Elderly go without needed medicine and care,
    Mentally ill go without treatment,
    Brave soldiers go without equipment,
    Veterans go without promised benefits,
    The young go without jobs,

    How does one justify this as the cost of donating billions to other countries in so called "foreign aid", as well as the cost of the overwhelming and excessive inbound immigration that the UK has been experiencing since 1994 - present? Costing the United Kingdom billions upon billions of £.

    I need help with understanding how this has been, and still is allowed to happen?
    1. Homeless people - the government will not spend the money saved from foreign aid on the homeless, it will simply go into the spending pot. Also the countries to whom we give aid have a considerably higher rate of homelessness than us.

    2. The elderly and mentally ill - the NHS has a fairly fixed system so dont expect much by way of increase there. Besides, most people can get vital medical attention, regardless of circumstance, so im not sure what your point is.

    3. Soldiers - Do we really need to divert more money into defence? Our soldiers are perfectly well equipped, and we have several military systems we do not need ie Trident.

    4. Unemployment - More government money does not equal less unemployment. At all. There are only a few programs that the government can run to help unemployment and they are not all that effective. As for veterans they are just as able as anyone else to claim benefits, they dont need any more than anyone else.

    5. Immigration - Immigration means that the economy grows, as our labour force grows and so does consumer expenditure. This means that we will have more money to spend in aid. The costs of immigration are not really all that high.

    I do understand if you mean that aid does not always go to its intended destination due to corruption and inefficiencies, but if we are just justifying spending then I don't see how aid is unfustified.
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    (Original post by fakeprada)
    As the homeless go without eating,
    Elderly go without needed medicine and care,
    Mentally ill go without treatment,
    Brave soldiers go without equipment,
    Veterans go without promised benefits,
    The young go without jobs
    As has been said, I don't think these problems are as clear-cut as it is easy to think. What is clear-cut is that we should never have been giving foreign aid to a country which can sustain its own space program.
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    The homeless go without eating - Yes, that's unfortunate. But there's only so much we can do for the homeless. It's a very complex situation. It's not as simple as lifting them off the street and putting them in front of a buffet and encouraging them to type up a CV. Governments have the power to help people, but only with reason. Some people do not want help. My uncle in Hounslow used to be such a person. Today, he accepts help and has a council house. He gets a small amount of money each month, and uses it wisely. I think this is very generous and he realises that.

    Elderly go without needed medicine and care - I think this is untrue. The UK has one of the most generous national health care systems in the world. Yes, it has its problems, but it's not as bad as America. In 2009, an elderly man in Michigan froze to death in his home because his power was cut off. He couldn't afford the bills so their solution was to stop providing him with electricity until he magically coughed up the cash. The state would not help him. I cannot imagine that happening in the UK.

    Mentally ill go without treatment - NHS provides services for the mentally ill, including counselling. This is extremely generous. Most countries, even ones with universal health care, do not cover this and instead leave it up to insurers who may or may not cover it. Yes, there may be long waiting times but at least they've got an option.

    Brave soldiers go without equipment - We ought to question why they have been sent to war to begin with. Is it a matter of life and death for the survival of Britain, is a violent state threatening the right of Britain to exist, as in WWII? Or is it a war based on false intelligence to serve the interests of an elite group in London and Washington? If it's the latter, never mind the equipment - the people ought to demand that the soldiers be returned home. It is a disservice to the soldiers themselves to send them off to a war that never should have been waged to begin with, as was the case in Iraq.

    Veterans go without promised benefits - Yes, this is unfortunate. The services available to veterans is despicable. This goes back to where the government puts its priorities. Just imagine what £4.5 billion (UK expenditures in Iraq) could have done for those veterans.

    The young go without jobs - Unfortunately, some of the young do not want to work.

    As for foreign aid, rich countries like Britain can afford to dole out a little bit to countries that need help. But the aid ought to be provided to NGO's who work at the grassroots level, not sent to the bank account of some dictator who will spend the money on a new estate somewhere. And then there's strategic foreign aid like Pakistan. That country is one revolution away from Islamic extremists controlling a nuclear weapons stockpile. If pumping in a little cash will help lure them away from ending up like Iran, that's a good thing for everyone involved.
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    Because charity is charity no matter how it is applied.

    And I don't buy into the selfish thought that "own comes first" not big on Nationalism as it is.
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    It was only a matter of time before facebook copypasta made it onto here.
 
 
 
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