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    It seems that many of the "lesser" "universities" (note use of the term) are now offering Law with some of them making very low offers for entry.

    Considering that this subject was once nearly as highly regarded as the golden tallis (Medicine) is this devaluing it?

    Medicine itself is not without the same problem, it is not unknown to get in with 3 B's in some places and only two of them have to be sciences.

    I was speaking to a first year Medic at Birmingham last weekend and she got in with ABB.

    Is the lowering of offers / institutions cheapening these subjects?
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    who cares as long as they make good doctors and lawyers.
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    (Original post by Gimp)
    who cares as long as they make good doctors and lawyers.
    Good Lawyers - now there's an oxymoron
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    (Original post by Mark_KK)
    It seems that many of the "lesser" "universities" (note use of the term) are now offering Law with some of them making very low offers for entry.

    Considering that this subject was once nearly as highly regarded as the golden tallis (Medicine) is this devaluing it?

    Medicine itself is not without the same problem, it is not unknown to get in with 3 B's in some places and only two of them have to be sciences.

    I was speaking to a first year Medic at Birmingham last weekend and she got in with ABB.

    Is the lowering of offers / institutions cheapening these subjects?
    I don't think it is cheapening the law. All law degrees have to meet certain standards to be regarded as "qualifying law degrees" a requisite to doing the BVC or solicitors equivalent (whatever that's called)

    I did my law degree with the Open University. There's no doubt that an OU law degree isn't as good as one from Oxford but if it's good enough for the Bar Council it's good enough for me.

    It's about time law was made accessible to a broader cross section of society and moved away from being the preserve of the wealthy.

    As long as standards don't slip (and the Bar Council won't let that happen) I don't see a problem. Too low an offer? Let's face it, law isn't really any more difficult than any other subject. Why on earth does anybody need three A's at A to do it? They don't.
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    (Original post by Gimp)
    who cares as long as they make good doctors and lawyers.
    Thats the problem, alot of the people currently studying medicine arent going to make good doctors.

    Before anyone questions me on this one my evidence comes from a prominant orthopaedic surgeon who was voicing his concerns.
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    I know someone who has found a way of becoming a barrister with some two year course that isn't at University with a placement and stuff. There are so many lawyers at the moment but the thing is, with the influx of "claims" from the US (You walk around drunk, blindfolded with your legs tied together and you fall over and chip your tooth and you get £15,000) it's becoming a more lucrative business
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    (Original post by Danithestudent)
    I know someone who has found a way of becoming a barrister with some two year course that isn't at University with a placement and stuff. There are so many lawyers at the moment but the thing is, with the influx of "claims" from the US (You walk around drunk, blindfolded with your legs tied together and you fall over and chip your tooth and you get £15,000) it's becoming a more lucrative business
    You DONT need to do Law to beomce a Barrister / Solicitor, if you can find someone who will "train you up" you can still do it although these opportunities are incredibly rare and it costs alot for a Law firm to put you through it.

    Hence the fact that a Law degree is preferable...
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    (Original post by Danithestudent)
    I know someone who has found a way of becoming a barrister with some two year course that isn't at University with a placement and stuff. There are so many lawyers at the moment but the thing is, with the influx of "claims" from the US (You walk around drunk, blindfolded with your legs tied together and you fall over and chip your tooth and you get £15,000) it's becoming a more lucrative business
    That's in the US. In the UK there are not enough jobs for Lawyers and competition is intense.

    and why shouldn't Uni's which are less reputable teach Law? It's an interesting subject that should be available to everyone. The idea that the study of Law should be restricted to a certain group of people (albeit with higher intelligence) is elitist and wrong.
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    grades arent everything there are plenty of people who are brilliant but dont excel at exams or have had bad teaching. Why shouldnt anyone study it, they will have to be good to get a job, getting a job with a law firm is still pretty competitive and elitist (sp?) so I dont see that most unis offering the course devalues it.

    I know people doing the ILEX that havent been to uni and only got mediocre grades at A Level and if they can cope with law and do it adequately I dont see why anyone at uni cant.
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    (Original post by Elle)
    That's in the US. In the UK there are not enough jobs for Lawyers and competition is intense.

    and why shouldn't Uni's which are less reputable teach Law? It's an interesting subject that should be available to everyone. The idea that the study of Law should be restricted to a certain group of people (albeit with higher intelligence) is elitist and wrong.
    There are various legal diplomas and other things people can get if they're interested in the Law, which can allow them to get certain jobs related to the civil service and other positions. I think it's fine that people who don't get great grades shouldn't be allowed to do a Law degree, as whilst not that many people who take Law as a degree actually become Lawyers, the degree itself is still generally designed to train people up to go in that direction

    How would you feel if a doctor who could end up treating you - and can be IN CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE - wasn't intelligent enough to get good A levels? Wouldn't you feel the same way about a Lawyer, who can be responsible for whether you GO TO PRISON or not?
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    (Original post by Mark_KK)
    It seems that many of the "lesser" "universities" (note use of the term) are now offering Law with some of them making very low offers for entry.

    Considering that this subject was once nearly as highly regarded as the golden tallis (Medicine) is this devaluing it?

    Medicine itself is not without the same problem, it is not unknown to get in with 3 B's in some places and only two of them have to be sciences.

    I was speaking to a first year Medic at Birmingham last weekend and she got in with ABB.

    Is the lowering of offers / institutions cheapening these subjects?
    Well wouldn't law firms route this out? Obviously a candidate from a more reputable university will be viewed more positvely than somebody whom attended somewhere such as Thames Valley University. Polytechnic universities are the ones whom are offering low entry, last year some arse from my college got into to do law via clearing (undersubscribed course) at Manchester Metropolitan university. I wouldn't say that law is being devalued, I would say that more people are persuing the degree. However it will always remain the same that many law firms are quite picky during the recruitment/selection of possible candidates. A person whom obtained their degree from say Manchester University as opposed to Manchester Metropolitan University, will be treated differently, because they are aware of the teaching quality, and quality of the establishment.
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    (Original post by Amazing)
    How would you feel if a doctor who could end up treating you - and can be IN CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE - wasn't intelligent enough to get good A levels?
    But A levels don't test how good a doctor you will be - simply how good your knowledge and understanding of a simple subject is.

    Doctors have to pass a medicine degree - if they're capable of that then they've proved themselves more than capable of doing the job - regardless of A level grades.

    I couldn't care less if my doctor knew newtons laws of motion and how to apply them - so long as s/he is capable of diagnosing any illnesses I have and prescribing appropriate treatment
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    (Original post by Amazing)
    There are various legal diplomas and other things people can get if they're interested in the Law, which can allow them to get certain jobs related to the civil service and other positions. I think it's fine that people who don't get great grades shouldn't be allowed to do a Law degree, as whilst not that many people who take Law as a degree actually become Lawyers, the degree itself is still generally designed to train people up to go in that direction

    How would you feel if a doctor who could end up treating you - and can be IN CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE - wasn't intelligent enough to get good A levels? Wouldn't you feel the same way about a Lawyer, who can be responsible for whether you GO TO PRISON or not?
    No of course not, but I was not talking about becoming a Lawyer, but simply studying Law. Since the Bar sets such high standards- you will not get a Lawyer who has completed training and is not capable of defending your rights. Studying Law is a different matter.. I believe it should be open to everyone- regardless of high grades.
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    (Original post by Amazing)
    There are various legal diplomas and other things people can get if they're interested in the Law, which can allow them to get certain jobs related to the civil service and other positions. I think it's fine that people who don't get great grades shouldn't be allowed to do a Law degree, as whilst not that many people who take Law as a degree actually become Lawyers, the degree itself is still generally designed to train people up to go in that direction

    How would you feel if a doctor who could end up treating you - and can be IN CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE - wasn't intelligent enough to get good A levels? Wouldn't you feel the same way about a Lawyer, who can be responsible for whether you GO TO PRISON or not?
    Not all lawyers specialise in criminal law or even would have that kind of responsibility.

    What about nurses then? They are responsible for administering drugs which could kill you.
    You can get on a nursing course with 3 Cs. What about teaching they are responsible for ensuring that you can pass exams etc and leave school with an acceptable standard of education. You can get on a teaching course with Ds.

    A Levels shouldnt be the most important thing. Someone might not be good at their A levels wrong subjects bad tuition etc but might be excellent at law. If someone can pass a rigourous law degree then they should be able to practice law.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    Not all lawyers specialise in criminal law or even would have that kind of responsibility.

    What about nurses then? They are responsible for administering drugs which could kill you.
    You can get on a nursing course with 3 Cs. What about teaching they are responsible for ensuring that you can pass exams etc and leave school with an acceptable standard of education. You can get on a teaching course with Ds.

    A Levels shouldnt be the B and end all. Someone might not be good at their A levels wrong subjects bad tuition etc but might be excellent at law. If someone can pass a rigourous law degree then they should be able to practice law.
    Yes please.
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    But A levels don't test how good a doctor you will be - simply how good your knowledge and understanding of a simple subject is.

    Doctors have to pass a medicine degree - if they're capable of that then they've proved themselves more than capable of doing the job - regardless of A level grades.

    I couldn't care less if my doctor knew newtons laws of motion and how to apply them - so long as s/he is capable of diagnosing any illnesses I have and prescribing appropriate treatment
    But generally, entry requirements for reading Medicine are even more stringent and strict than those for Law, yet people rarely complain about that.

    You don't need a Law degree to become a Lawyer anyway. I think this covers the fact that many people who are bad at examinations could be good Lawyers, seen as they all have an opportunity of doing this bit of their training "on the job" to some extent. Those who get bad A levels are not likely to be good at University exams either, so it makes little sense to allow them to do something which they are likely to do badly at when they could train in a different way that would probably be more suited to them anyway.
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    (Original post by Mark_KK)
    You DONT need to do Law to beomce a Barrister / Solicitor, if you can find someone who will "train you up" you can still do it although these opportunities are incredibly rare and it costs alot for a Law firm to put you through it.

    Hence the fact that a Law degree is preferable...
    You don't have to have a degre in law either - you can do another degree and then take the CPE.

    Or you can do the ILEX course which doesn't require a degree.
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    (Original post by Bhaal85)
    Yes please.
    lol :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Amazing)
    But generally, entry requirements for reading Medicine are even more stringent and strict than those for Law, yet people rarely complain about that.

    You don't need a Law degree to become a Lawyer anyway. I think this covers the fact that many people who are bad at examinations could be good Lawyers, seen as they all have an opportunity of doing this bit of their training "on the job" to some extent. Those who get bad A levels are not likely to be good at University exams either, so it makes little sense to allow them to do something which they are likely to do badly at when they could train in a different way that would probably be more suited to them anyway.
    Shouldn't that be their choice? Shouldn't we at least give them the opportunity to find out?
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    (Original post by Elle)
    No of course not, but I was not talking about becoming a Lawyer, but simply studying Law. Since the Bar sets such high standards- you will not get a Lawyer who has completed training and is not capable of defending your rights. Studying Law is a different matter.. I believe it should be open to everyone- regardless of high grades.
    As I said, you CAN study Law at University, just not a full Law degree. Which really makes sense, considering there are many more people than places who want to do a Law degree at the moment who are actualy getting the necessary high grades as it is.
 
 
 
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