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    Hey people, just preparing for a postgrad Medicine interview and I saw that in the past people have been asked "How much of a hospitals budget is spent on staff?"

    I have literally spend hours trawling the internet, NHS websites, Government pay budgets, NHS spending reviews, BBC News articles etc and can't find anything! So far I have found the number of each type of staff that the NHS (England) employs, and the pay bands/ salaries for each profession but without exact numbers for each level of doctor/ nurse/ hospital manager etc its nearly impossible to calculate.

    Anyone have a rough idea of the total hospital budget spend on staff, or have any data that they found on details of this? I wouldn't have the first clue how much a hospital spends on staff but if I had to make a guess I would probably say ~40%. Is this close?

    Help please! Don't wanna look like an idiot if I get asked this!

    Seren x
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      (Original post by SPeters16)
      Hey people, just preparing for a postgrad Medicine interview and I saw that in the past people have been asked "How much of a hospitals budget is spent on staff?"

      I have literally spend hours trawling the internet, NHS websites, Government pay budgets, NHS spending reviews, BBC News articles etc and can't find anything! So far I have found the number of each type of staff that the NHS (England) employs, and the pay bands/ salaries for each profession but without exact numbers for each level of doctor/ nurse/ hospital manager etc its nearly impossible to calculate.

      Anyone have a rough idea of the total hospital budget spend on staff, or have any data that they found on details of this? I wouldn't have the first clue how much a hospital spends on staff but if I had to make a guess I would probably say ~40%. Is this close?

      Help please! Don't wanna look like an idiot if I get asked this!

      Seren x
      more like 80%+
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      This site seems to say that it's around 55%
      http://fullfact.org/factchecks/how_m..._on_staff-1503

      There's surprisingly very little information about this.
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      (Original post by Charlotte49)
      This site seems to say that it's around 55%
      http://fullfact.org/factchecks/how_m..._on_staff-1503

      There's surprisingly very little information about this.
      Fantastic thank you very much An informed estimate is better than nothing! Btw, to clarify: does "non-medical staff" mean everyone other than doctors? Including nurses and auxiliaries/ health care workers for example? If not, they are missing a significant chunk of staff from their estimates!

      Thanks again xx
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      (Original post by Jamie)
      more like 80%+
      Where did you get this figure from? x
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      (Original post by SPeters16)
      Fantastic thank you very much An informed estimate is better than nothing! Btw, to clarify: does "non-medical staff" mean everyone other than doctors? Including nurses and auxiliaries/ health care workers for example? If not, they are missing a significant chunk of staff from their estimates!

      Thanks again xx
      No problem at all

      "We were informed that from a planned revenue budget for the NHS in 2010/11 of £99.5 billion, non-medical staff costs will account for 38 per cent of spending.
      Spending on doctors’ pay, according to the Department of Health, will account for 17 per cent of spending, meaning total staff costs come to 55 per cent of the budget – significantly lower than the figure suggested to Mr Heffer."

      I guess from this you've got to assume that 17% covers doctors wages and 38% covers everyone else since they said the total for all staff is 55% of the budget. Although this is/was the planned budged so who knows if they overspent.

      I also saw an article about the NHS paying 'footballer salaries' to private doctors to cover staff shortages. It's Daily Mail so obviously the reliability isn't great, but even so, it's quite interesting. I think there is definitely some truth in it, as a friend of my parents' is a paediatric consultant and apparently gets paid £140 per hour to be on call overnight.
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ean-rules.html
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        (Original post by Charlotte49)
        This site seems to say that it's around 55%
        http://fullfact.org/factchecks/how_m..._on_staff-1503

        There's surprisingly very little information about this.
        that 55% is 17% for doctors, 38% for non-medical staff.

        what about nurses though...
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        Please tell me questions like these are only for postgrad medicine :O
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        (Original post by Jamie)
        that 55% is 17% for doctors, 38% for non-medical staff.

        what about nurses though...
        It does say 'total staff costs' come to 55% so I'm assuming they include nurses etc in 'non-medical' but it's not very clear.
        It's very difficult to find actual hard facts, this is just a budget plan from the NHS.
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        This chart shows staff costs of 68% although it is only for one trust. I dont think its too unreasonable to extrapolate this to whole UK figures.

        http://www.secamb.nhs.uk/images/finance%20graphic.png
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        (Original post by SPeters16)
        Hey people, just preparing for a postgrad Medicine interview and I saw that in the past people have been asked "How much of a hospitals budget is spent on staff?"

        I have literally spend hours trawling the internet, NHS websites, Government pay budgets, NHS spending reviews, BBC News articles etc and can't find anything! So far I have found the number of each type of staff that the NHS (England) employs, and the pay bands/ salaries for each profession but without exact numbers for each level of doctor/ nurse/ hospital manager etc its nearly impossible to calculate.

        Anyone have a rough idea of the total hospital budget spend on staff, or have any data that they found on details of this? I wouldn't have the first clue how much a hospital spends on staff but if I had to make a guess I would probably say ~40%. Is this close?

        Help please! Don't wanna look like an idiot if I get asked this!

        Seren x
        You're missing the point of the question. No doctor is going to know this. The aim of the interview is not to see whether you have spent your time trawling through hospital admin forms, which is what you would have to do (and seemingly have spent some time doing). Its to see how much you know about the workings of a hospital and the career you are signing up for. Where could money go? Is it all just doctors and drugs, or are there other things that money gets spent on? The actual figure, as long as its between like 10% and 95%, is immaterial.
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        (Original post by Charlotte49)
        No problem at all

        "We were informed that from a planned revenue budget for the NHS in 2010/11 of £99.5 billion, non-medical staff costs will account for 38 per cent of spending.
        Spending on doctors’ pay, according to the Department of Health, will account for 17 per cent of spending, meaning total staff costs come to 55 per cent of the budget – significantly lower than the figure suggested to Mr Heffer."

        I guess from this you've got to assume that 17% covers doctors wages and 38% covers everyone else since they said the total for all staff is 55% of the budget. Although this is/was the planned budged so who knows if they overspent.

        I also saw an article about the NHS paying 'footballer salaries' to private doctors to cover staff shortages. It's Daily Mail so obviously the reliability isn't great, but even so, it's quite interesting. I think there is definitely some truth in it, as a friend of my parents' is a paediatric consultant and apparently gets paid £140 per hour to be on call overnight.
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ean-rules.html
        This is all really useful information, thank you! I guess by non-medical they mean nurses as well as they haven't done a degree in "medicine" specifically. And wow... I've heard of nurses that I worked with getting paid about £30 an hour because they were hired through an agency and I thought that was a lot. Sounds like the NHS would be better off just hiring more staff rather than cutting jobs (or the government cutting jobs...) and then having to hire staff at outrageous prices!

        (Original post by kinglynx)
        Please tell me questions like these are only for postgrad medicine :O
        No actually that was a question that came up in a Newcastle undergraduate interview in 2010. But like nexttime said, it's more to see if you know where NHS money is needed rather than knowing exactly how much money is spent on staff in NHS.

        (Original post by nexttime)
        You're missing the point of the question. No doctor is going to know this. The aim of the interview is not to see whether you have spent your time trawling through hospital admin forms, which is what you would have to do (and seemingly have spent some time doing). Its to see how much you know about the workings of a hospital and the career you are signing up for. Where could money go? Is it all just doctors and drugs, or are there other things that money gets spent on? The actual figure, as long as its between like 10% and 95%, is immaterial.
        Thanks Yeah I got the point of the question and I realise that I need to know other areas that NHS spends on but what I was unsure of was whether despite there being other costs in the NHS, did staff salaries cost more proportionally.... I just wanted to see roughly how much it was so I could get a better idea of how much is spent elsewhere in the NHS. I think! Not even sure myself now haha I went in such a roundabout way of finding out!

        (Original post by Egypt)
        This chart shows staff costs of 68% although it is only for one trust. I dont think its too unreasonable to extrapolate this to whole UK figures.

        http://www.secamb.nhs.uk/images/finance%20graphic.png
        Oh thank you, this is really useful! Because it gives some information about spending in trusts as well as NHS as a whole
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        I'd probably reply with something like 'it depends upon the hospital, it's overall budget, and the needs of patients in the area' and then explain my reasoning with examples. I wouldn't even attempt to forge a guess of a percentage. If I had read something by the local trust regarding this kind of thing then I might refer to it before explaining that it depends on a number of factors etc.
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        (Original post by SPeters16)

        No actually that was a question that came up in a Newcastle undergraduate interview in 2010. But like nexttime said, it's more to see if you know where NHS money is needed rather than knowing exactly how much money is spent on staff in NHS.


        Hmmm see i don't know what to learn for the interview (i got one for barts) should i learn ethics, or the politics behind the NHS? I mean, as a doctor, as harsh as it sounds, i really don't care about legislation and stuff unless it affects me in some way... which i guess you could argue every policy will have an indirect effect, but still,
        like should i know the in's and out's of the NHS policy and auditing and all that?
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        (Original post by Zedd)
        I'd probably reply with something like 'it depends upon the hospital, it's overall budget, and the needs of patients in the area' and then explain my reasoning with examples. I wouldn't even attempt to forge a guess of a percentage. If I had read something by the local trust regarding this kind of thing then I might refer to it before explaining that it depends on a number of factors etc.
        Thanks very much that sounds like a good way to go about it

        (Original post by kinglynx)
        Hmmm see i don't know what to learn for the interview (i got one for barts) should i learn ethics, or the politics behind the NHS? I mean, as a doctor, as harsh as it sounds, i really don't care about legislation and stuff unless it affects me in some way... which i guess you could argue every policy will have an indirect effect, but still,
        like should i know the in's and out's of the NHS policy and auditing and all that?
        All I'm going to do/ am doing is looking up the NHS reforms that the government is currently trying to put in place, the structure of the NHS (who controls who etc) and the career path of doctors. I really don't think you need to know any more about the NHS than this, other than what you will know as general knowledge hopefully, and what you will have learnt on work experience.

        As for the ethics, definitely learn some ethical principles than you can apply to most situations that they ask you about if they do decide to ask about that. If you're a fast reader and have a couple of weeks before your interview I would recommend practical ethics by Peter Singer. You don't need to read all of it but its quite heavy reading and requires a lot of attention (definitely not something you can just pick up and read casually). If you don't have much time and need to get the facts fast, order A very short introduction to Medical Ethics by Tony Hope (amazon link here, can get it by Tuesday if you order next day delivery: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Medical-Ethi...7519654&sr=8-1 ). Also, try and look up some ethical (prefereably medically related) issue thats been in the news recently that you can talk about. The Tony Nicklinson case is a good one to talk about if you can't find anything better recently. Good luck!
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        (Original post by SPeters16)

        All I'm going to do/ am doing is looking up the NHS reforms that the government is currently trying to put in place, the structure of the NHS (who controls who etc) and the career path of doctors. I really don't think you need to know any more about the NHS than this, other than what you will know as general knowledge hopefully, and what you will have learnt on work experience.

        As for the ethics, definitely learn some ethical principles than you can apply to most situations that they ask you about if they do decide to ask about that. If you're a fast reader and have a couple of weeks before your interview I would recommend practical ethics by Peter Singer. You don't need to read all of it but its quite heavy reading and requires a lot of attention (definitely not something you can just pick up and read casually). If you don't have much time and need to get the facts fast, order A very short introduction to Medical Ethics by Tony Hope (amazon link here, can get it by Tuesday if you order next day delivery: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Medical-Ethi...7519654&sr=8-1 ). Also, try and look up some ethical (prefereably medically related) issue thats been in the news recently that you can talk about. The Tony Nicklinson case is a good one to talk about if you can't find anything better recently. Good luck!

        I did work experience over here in the UAE, so i havn't learnt anything practical about the NHS (which sucks if i get asked about comparisons).

        However i will definitly read into the things you mentioned. By structure do you mean like, departments, who heads what, what government council its under etc? (like here, everything is under ministry of education, or ministry of health, ministry of defence etc)

        For ethics i have the 150Q book, ive only read a few pages, but i think itll help me answer some of the thics questions. Also i read the BBC healthcare news everyday, but theres hardly any "cases" per say, its more just whats happening e.g) norovirus and first hand transplant uk

        Where can i find a good list of NHS cases/scandals to study?

        Thanks a lot for the great help
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        Oh hmm I didn't realise you weren't in the UK! Makes it harder to find out for sure. Well I think they will take that into consideration when asking you about it. Here are a few good links for finding out about the NHS and the medical career pathway (look up MMC, which stands for Modernising Medical Careers):

        http://healthandcare.dh.gov.uk/
        http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore...come-a-doctor/
        http://www.medicalcareers.nhs.uk/career_planning.aspx

        Both the exact pages I've linked to are good, and also look around the rest of the websites too because they are filled with useful information.

        For recent ethical issues, there are some on the BBC News you just have to recognise them. For example, did you read about the case of the mother who didn't want her son to get life-saving radiotherapy for a brain tumour and took it to court? Or the one a couple of months back about the woman who was given donor lungs (she had cystic fibrosis) and then died just over a year later from lung cancer because it turned out that the lungs were from a smoker?
        Theres a thread I started over on NewMediaMedicine.com about these things: http://www.newmediamedicine.com/foru...sues-news.html if you don't have an account you should sign up because its a great forum

        Not a problem at all. I know how scary applying for medicine is especially when you can't find/ don't know what information you're looking for! I'm in the middle of my second application right now.

        If you need anything else just ask! Join our ethics discussion in new media medicine

        Seren xx
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        Oh and how could I forget, you can find out a lot about the NHS from their website, www.nhs.uk

        And yes by structure I meant about how control filters down through government to local NHS trusts, which I believe can be found on one of the links I posted in my last message

        Seren xx
       
       
       
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