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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Good post, and a point well made. My view is that Gary Wilson and Marnia Robinson's positions are completely pseudoscientific. The guy doesn't even have an undergraduate degree, he was a nursing student. That's the extent of his qualifications.

    It's also important to note that GW and MR have a particular barrow to push; MR believes that orgasms are bad and so pushing the anti-porn bandwagon along is, she believes, her best way to attack the pernicious tendency of human beings to get themselves and other people off.

    Finally, there is a highly homophobic streak in what GW promotes. Despite knowing that sexuality is fairly immutable, they are constantly pushing the line that if a guy starts liking gay porn, he was probably just attracted to it because it's "deviant". A very regressive and homophobic view if there was one, and totally at odds with what we know about human sexuality. It's also an extremely irresponsible ideology to promote considering how vulnerable young people are when it comes to sexuality issues. This is one step away from the reparative therapy nonsense we see from extremist Christians
    I have never ever seen them say that.. link?

    What I have seen them say is that if you are not gay (no attraction to same sex in real life) but like gay porn (attraction to same sex on a computer screen) then it may be induced by porn and not a component of your personal sexuality.

    Yes I used ad homs everywhere. Hardly detracts from the content of my post though.

    I am asserting he's right because I have read his work and the work of the naysayers and concluded that he might be onto something. IM(informed)O he has the general idea correct since all addictions share the same physiological characteristics but can't (and doesn't after going through his site) make any other claims.

    You have still failed to find me a neuroscientist who doesn't believe him - that's a psychologist and they share very much the same views as the sexologists and have an equally minimal neuroscienc background. With a quick skim there is nothing in that article to directly contradict anything GW has said. That lecturer has posed a number of other factors which I agree with but they do not invalidate GW's theories.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050060/

    It is a bit difficult to find testomonies from hard scientists for the political reasons I mentioned. But 1 > 0.

    Based on authority alone (appeal to authority much? but you've used it so here we are) I would say a physiology teacher knows more about neuroscience than a sexologist.

    It is not a straw man argument. By showing why sexologists have a vested interest in supporting porn and by showing (well, giving an example anyway) of the fallacious logic they try and twist, I have showed to some small extent why their "debunking" should at the very least be in question. Do you know what a straw man is? This is entirely related to the issue; hardly a straw man.
    Edit: ah I see what you meant by straw man. Well I'm not making it up and I'm a bit surprised you think I'd make that entire thing up just for this little argument. here it is.

    No, I did mean to say you're both horribly underread. Better thought Your Brain on Porn was about fapping. A 5 min skim of their site (or a 5 second skim of their title) would reveal it's not...
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    X
    Tl;dr. Another post full of ad hominems and demonstrations of your own extreme emotional investment in this cult. I'm gonna go watch some porn and have a ****
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Tl;dr. Another post full of ad hominems and demonstrations of your own extreme emotional investment in this cult. I'm gonna go watch some porn and have a ****
    :eek: is that an ad hominem I see? A pretty major one as well since you're using it to debunk everything I've said!

    And no, I managed to restrain myself and not use any ad hominems up there. Here's an ad hominem to chew on: you have come out as a sore loser who won't even continue to make his stand because of inherent and irrational bias. I certainly hope you don't back your other strong opinions up like this.
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    In no-fap guys, good time in.

    Noticed i am making all kindz of gainz strength training man.

    Ima keep this up and get shredded.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Tl;dr. Another post full of ad hominems and demonstrations of your own extreme emotional investment in this cult. I'm gonna go watch some porn and have a ****
    Adios amigos. We're going to work out and get real girls.
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    (Original post by scapepower)
    Adios amigos. We're going to work out and get real girls.
    Amen. Enjoy your pixels and deltaFosB accumulation. Hope this doesn't lead to degraded dopamine signalling to the hypothalamus giving you ED bros.

    (srs)
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    Amen. Enjoy your pixels and deltaFosB accumulation. Hope this doesn't lead to degraded dopamine signalling to the hypothalamus giving you ED bros.

    (srs)
    aware me on this in more detail brah?

    srs
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    (Original post by scapepower)
    aware me on this in more detail brah?

    srs
    Still mostly hypothetical since you can't extrapolate from other studies (nothing is similar) and no-one's done studies (someone trued but couldn't find a control group lolz) but the phenomenon itself seems pretty concrete. Just go on the internet. It's a combination of
    1) D2 receptor downregulation in the hypothalamus leading to needing harder stuff to get off (harder=>more dopamine, sex is pretty invariant in comparison to the novelty of prons)
    2) enhanced deltaFosB expression reinforcing pathways related to porn use (that sensitization or "rush" you get when you put something on? that's dFSB - it means that dopamine signalling is heightened for that specific pathway) which leads to lower signalling to the hypothalamus for other cues

    Only really a problem if you don't get laid or you watch a lot of porn it seems.

    Also brah I haven't noticed more gains on nofap. There's no reason for that. I have noticed more motivation though. Even if it is placebo who cares!
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    Still mostly hypothetical since you can't extrapolate from other studies (nothing is similar) and no-one's done studies (someone trued but couldn't find a control group lolz) but the phenomenon itself seems pretty concrete. Just go on the internet. It's a combination of
    1) D2 receptor downregulation in the hypothalamus leading to needing harder stuff to get off (harder=>more dopamine, sex is pretty invariant in comparison to the novelty of prons)
    2) enhanced deltaFosB expression reinforcing pathways related to porn use (that sensitization or "rush" you get when you put something on? that's dFSB - it means that dopamine signalling is heightened for that specific pathway) which leads to lower signalling to the hypothalamus for other cues

    Only really a problem if you don't get laid or you watch a lot of porn it seems.

    Also brah I haven't noticed more gains on nofap. There's no reason for that. I have noticed more motivation though. Even if it is placebo who cares!
    But a man feels all aggressive when he has test and calmer when he 'ejacs'. So a more aggressive male lifting gonna work harder and make more gainz.

    forget prons.

    disregard women. aquire aeshetics as CJ said.
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    (Original post by scapepower)
    Adios amigos. We're going to work out and get real girls.
    Lol hilarious, heteronormative kinda statement I've come to expect from Fapstinence proponents. I already have a "real girl", he's my boyfriend.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Lol hilarious, heteronormative kinda statement I've come to expect from Fapstinence proponents. I already have a "real girl", he's my boyfriend.
    Lol! Enough said.
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    (Original post by scapepower)
    But a man feels all aggressive when he has test and calmer when he 'ejacs'. So a more aggressive male lifting gonna work harder and make more gainz.

    forget prons.

    disregard women. aquire aeshetics as CJ said.
    Test drops back down to normal after a week. Maybe its neurotransmitter balance? Can only hypothesize.

    CJ my man!
    I got my own little addendum

    disregard pixels

    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Lol hilarious, heteronormative kinda statement I've come to expect from Fapstinence proponents. I already have a "real girl", he's my boyfriend.
    You can't be serious. Fair enough for you. But me and scapepower are indeed, going to get girls and not guys because we're straight... unless you're telling me there's something wrong with that. Now how about you respond to my long post you tl;dr'd or have you still not thought of anything?
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    Its hard to belive that you havent "fapped" this far into the year.
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    (Original post by shahbaz)
    Its hard to belive that you havent "fapped" this far into the year.
    Dude. Just lift, make the gainz we are making and slay poon.
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    You can't be serious. Fair enough for you. But me and scapepower are indeed, going to get girls and not guys because we're straight... unless you're telling me there's something wrong with that
    I'm just saying it seems a little ridiculous for you and scapepower to say (leaving aside the curious heteronormativity of the statement), "Yeah, you go and jerk off and we'll go and get some real girls and score" when seemingly, fapstinence isn't working so well for you guys and on the other hand I have a real sexual partner.

    The only people who adhere to fapstinence are single people, when you're in a relationship you tend not to get so hung up about it.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    I'm just saying it seems a little ridiculous for you and scapepower to say (leaving aside the curious heteronormativity of the statement), "Yeah, you go and jerk off and we'll go and get some real girls and score" when seemingly, fapstinence isn't working so well for you guys and on the other hand I have a real sexual partner.

    The only people who adhere to fapstinence are single people, when you're in a relationship you tend not to get so hung up about it.
    But it's not heteronormative (it's only about me and scapepower; no sweeping generalizations made about the population since he knows we're straight => not normalizing hetero roles at all). Seems more like you're showing a bit of heterophobia if you're getting offended by that tbh...

    Who said fapstinence isn't working for us? Only you.
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    But it's not heteronormative (it's only about me and scapepower; no sweeping generalizations made about the population since he knows we're straight => not normalizing hetero roles at all)
    I think the heteronormativity comes from assuming everyone else must be

    Seems more like you're showing a bit of heterophobia if you're getting offended by that tbh...
    Heterophobia? Is that a thing? Does it even exist?

    Who said fapstinence isn't working for us? Only you.
    Presumably it's not, otherwise you'd already have a girlfriend and have ceased posting about the great benefits of a particular behaviour that people in relationships don't care about
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    I think the heteronormativity comes from assuming everyone else must be

    Heterophobia? Is that a thing? Does it even exist?

    Presumably it's not, otherwise you'd already have a girlfriend and have ceased posting about the great benefits of a particular behaviour that people in relationships don't care about
    The scope of the statement was myself and scapepower ("we") and not the general population. Furthermore he knows we're both not gay so it's not an assumption. So there is no assumption made about sexual roles over the general population.

    I'm sure it's not so widespread that it's a thing but it's not so inconceivable that some gays feel so persecuted that they lash out at straight behaviour. How on earth did you manage to get offended by scapepower saying we were going to go out and get girls?!

    Well it's working fine. I never got anywhere with girls of my own accord before since I was under the mindset I could just go home and fap and that would be me done for the day. Even without considering the physiology behind porn use, the psychological factor behind nofap (two different things!) is reason enough if it works for you.
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    Furthermore he knows we're both not gay so it's not an assumption. So there is no assumption made about sexual roles over the general population.
    Assumption as opposed to what? You seem to be forgetting that he said it to me. Perhaps you should parse the statement and reflect a bit on the implications

    I'm sure it's not so widespread that it's a thing but it's not so inconceivable that some gays feel so persecuted that they lash out at straight behaviour
    Is there any evidence of this? I've never heard of this in my life

    How on earth did you manage to get offended by scapepower saying we were going to go out and get girls?!
    I think you're reading offense into a situation where there wasn't any. I just thought it was funny that a boy who won't even touch his willy (and presumably no girl will either) was lecturing me about sex and how to get it.
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    Assumption as opposed to what? You seem to be forgetting that he said it to me. Perhaps you should parse the statement and reflect a bit on the implications



    Is there any evidence of this? I've never heard of this in my life



    I think you're reading offense into a situation where there wasn't any. I just thought it was funny that a boy who won't even touch his willy (and presumably no girl will either) was lecturing me about sex and how to get it.
    "we" referred to the nofappers in this discussion: me and him. Not him and you. He knows we're straight so knowledge was used and assumptions were not made - so assumptions as opposed to knowledge. This isn't a question of syntactic structure but semantics so the issue doesn't lie in parsing the statement anyway... lol.

    Evidence of this? Yeah, you, right here, right now. Trying to spin that statement as heteronormative when it's not. Do you need a research paper for everything? You can't accept that out of millions of gays, some number of them, whether small or large (likely small though) resent heterosexuality based on persecution by heterosexuals?

    If you weren't offended by the statement then why did you try to spin it as heteronormative when it obviously isn't?
    Again. How can you possibly know if either of us get girls or not? You don't strike me as the epitome of rationality so forgive me if I don't accept that I or scapepower don't get girls based on your judgement over a few posts on TSR.
 
 
 
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