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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Why fapstinence and not abstinence of all pleasures? There are worse pleasures than masturbation.
    You're asking 2 different questions and (intentionally?) conflating them. One is why not stop there and quit all pleasures and the other is why masturbation and not some other (subjectively) worse pleasure.

    The first is pretty obvious and the second because I find masturbating gives me headaches and anxiety where sex doesn't.

    So it just makes sense for me to not do it. YMMV.
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    I just read this 10 minutes ago and I've already failed.
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    You're asking 2 different questions and (intentionally?) conflating them. One is why not stop there and quit all pleasures and the other is why masturbation and not some other (subjectively) worse pleasure.

    The first is pretty obvious and the second because I find masturbating gives me headaches and anxiety where sex doesn't.

    So it just makes sense for me to not do it. YMMV.
    1. Nope, the first is not obvious. Unfortunately, I can't read your mind so please make your answer explicit. Why not quit all pleasures and live an ascetic live?

    2. Pleasure A (masturbating) gives you headache and anxiety but Pleasure B ( sexual intercouse) does not. Fair enough. But your problems with masturbation sound more psychological than innate. If (hypothesis) you underwent psychotherapy to treat your anxiety on masturbation and thereby removing the obstacle preventing you from masturbating without negative psychological consequences, would you mastubate again? If not, why not?
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    so how many of you have kept your hands from yourselves.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    1. Nope, the first is not obvious. Unfortunately, I can't read your mind so please make your answer explicit. Why not quit all pleasures and live an ascetic live?

    2. Pleasure A (masturbating) gives you headache and anxiety but Pleasure B ( sexual intercouse) does not. Fair enough. But your problems with masturbation sound more psychological than innate. If (hypothesis) you underwent psychotherapy to treat your anxiety on masturbation and thereby removing the obstacle preventing you from masturbating without negative psychological consequences, would you mastubate again? If not, why not?
    1. Because pleasure is fun. Most pleasures will not cause me long term problems. I have my shallow side and vanity like everyone else. What a weird question.
    2. It is not psychological. I don't have any hangups against masturbation or people who do. I was happily fapping until I decided to try nofap on a whim and I noticed I felt better. The fact is that masturbation is physiologically different to sex (see http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...9.01677.x/full, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16095799 to start with) beyond the fact it's a hand and not a pussy.

    But if "they" (unspecified) could be resolved then yeah, I guess I would masturbate occasionally.
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    1. Because pleasure is fun. Most pleasures will not cause me long term problems. I have my shallow side and vanity like everyone else. What a weird question.
    2. It is not psychological. I don't have any hangups against masturbation or people who do. I was happily fapping until I decided to try nofap on a whim and I noticed I felt better. The fact is that masturbation is physiologically different to sex (see http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...9.01677.x/full, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16095799 to start with) beyond the fact it's a hand and not a pussy.

    But if "they" (unspecified) could be resolved then yeah, I guess I would masturbate occasionally.
    1. It is not weird but a question of applying the same criteria to all pleasures.

    2. Sorry, I simply meant that it can be treated. I already knew that sex feels better than using your hand (or your own mouth if you are flexible and feel like it).

    Alright, I got the answers I wanted to know from you, happy non-fapping!
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    1. It is not weird but a question of applying the same criteria to all pleasures.

    2. Sorry, I simply meant that it can be treated. I already knew that sex feels better than using your hand (or your own mouth if you are flexible and feel like it).

    Alright, I got the answers I wanted to know from you, happy non-fapping!
    I'm still a bit confused on point 1. What is the point in refraining from all pleasures if it's not all pleasures that cause discomfort? And what's the point in refraining from all pleasures to enhance the reward response to those pleasures which you're not allowing yourself to experience?
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    I'm still a bit confused on point 1. What is the point in refraining from all pleasures if it's not all pleasures that cause discomfort? And a)what's the point in refraining from all pleasures to enhance the reward response to those pleasures which you're not allowing yourself to experience?
    1. It is only your case who has the rationale of not engaging in a particular pleasure because it causes you discomfort. It is likely not to be the case of people here fapstaining. I am asking for the rationale of the rest of users.

    a) I did not say such thing.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    1. It is only your case who has the rationale of not engaging in a particular pleasure because it causes you discomfort. It is likely not to be the case of people here fapstaining. I am asking for the rationale of the rest of users.

    a) I did not say such thing.
    Did you read the OP?

    • Increased energy levels
    • Increased motivation
    • Increased confidence
    • Increased enjoyment of real sex
    • Increased willpower
    • Increased focus
    • Clearer state of mind
    • Decreased social anxiety
    The perspective (ie fapstinence promotes benefits vs masturbation causes discomfort) is irrelevant to the changes themselves. I am definitely not the only fapstainer that has noticed these changes.

    I still don't get why you asked why I don't abstain from all pleasures.
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    This "no fap" business only works if you have a girlfriend. And even then, a cheeky wonk (Jason Statham voice) is hard to resist.
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    Did you read the OP?



    The perspective (ie fapstinence promotes benefits vs masturbation causes discomfort) is irrelevant to the changes themselves. I am definitely not the only fapstainer that has noticed these changes.

    a)I still don't get why you asked why I don't abstain from all pleasures.


    " Increased energy levels
    • Increased motivation
    • Increased confidence
    • Increased enjoyment of real sex
    • Increased willpower
    • Increased focus
    • Clearer state of mind
    • Decreased social anxiety"

    Changes, uh? Has this claim being empirically tested? Otherwise, it is just an unproved claim like many others. I might as well believe that belief in God will make me happier.

    a) I asked that because there is no rationale (other than this unproved claim) for fapstaining. So I assumed that the only reason you are all fapstaining is because masturbation is a source of pleasure so I thought, if you deprive yourself from one pleasure why not deprive yourself from all. But now I see that you have a lists of things you expected to achieve by fapstaining (even though the claim that fapstaining will get you all that is not empirically tested). I will temporarily assume that the claims are true:

    Still you don't need to fapstain if all you want is to enjoy the above benefits, you can have both so even if the claims are true they do not justify or give a reason for fapstaining. Masturbating once or twice a week or a month or even less will still make you enjoy sex while allowing you to masturbate. If you want to increase your "energy" levels, increased focus, willpower, clearer mind, you can do exercise which will help you to get in shape as well as improving your health. If you want confidence, decrease social anxiety and motivation you can ask for tips to a psychologist or follow the exercises of the thousands of books out there, practice makes perfect. See? If all you want are the above points you can do as I said and still masturbate.
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    None of these "effects" of no mastaurbating have been scientifically proven, technically all these claims are unsupported and let's remember the weirdness of the brain, sometimes, it has the ability to fool itself. So what you experience may not be at all physical, just mental.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    " Increased energy levels
    • Increased motivation
    • Increased confidence
    • Increased enjoyment of real sex
    • Increased willpower
    • Increased focus
    • Clearer state of mind
    • Decreased social anxiety"

    Changes, uh? Has this claim being empirically tested? Otherwise, it is just an unproved claim like many others. I might as well believe that belief in God will make me happier.

    a) I asked that because there is no rationale (other than this unproved claim) for fapstaining. So I assumed that the only reason you are all fapstaining is because masturbation is a source of pleasure so I thought, if you deprive yourself from one pleasure why not deprive yourself from all. But now I see that you have a lists of things you expected to achieve by fapstaining (even though the claim that fapstaining will get you all that is not empirically tested). I will temporarily assume that the claims are true:

    Still you don't need to fapstain if all you want is to enjoy the above benefits, you can have both so even if the claims are true they do not justify or give a reason for fapstaining. Masturbating once or twice a week or a month or even less will still make you enjoy sex while allowing you to masturbate. If you want to increase your "energy" levels, increased focus, willpower, clearer mind, you can do exercise which will help you to get in shape as well as improving your health. If you want confidence, decrease social anxiety and motivation you can ask for tips to a psychologist or follow the exercises of the thousands of books out there, practice makes perfect. See? If all you want are the above points you can do as I said and still masturbate.
    You seem the most reasonable guy here.
    As the guy said increased focus
    Wouldn't it be more decreased focus because of all the testosterone so they'll be thinking about sex and women all day, and also increased energy levels? I have never felt any different from ****ing than when I don't. I totally agree with your points, if fapping stops you from being active and intelligent, then you don't deserve to breed!
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    I don't fapstain because of it being a pleasure, but because it's more than that and seems to have wider implications than just something that feels good. But in a general view, it's good not to indulge in every pleasure that becomes available to you so you don't desensitize your reward response.

    The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it's unreliable and the problem with empirical evidence is that it's hard to obtain. The fact there is no empirical evidence either way doesn't mean it isn't true. Just try it for yourself. One day the scientists might catch up but until they do, provided it doesn't hurt you, you may as well see for yourself. If you see no benefit then fine, you haven't lost anything by trying.
    If you do your research, higher rates of masturbation are significantly correlated to problems like depression.
    Plus there is some evidence that begins to causally support what I'm saying. I have already linked it. Masturbation is hormonally less satiating than sex (4x to put a number to it) and that has implications.

    I know I don't need to fapstain to get those benefits. But if I fapstain alongside exercise etc (which I aleady do) I'll be at the best possible state I can be in in terms of those improvements. Not all of us are content with apathy. You also make key assumptions about the physiological impact of masturbation; namely that they're low and can be worked with on a psychological level. This is purely speculation. At least I have a control: I stopped for a while and continued for a while tons of times until I decided masturbating wasn't worth it.

    Believing in God will make you happier. There is strong evidence supporting the correlation. No idea what you're trying to say here... seems a bad analogy.
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    (Original post by Sphodromantis)
    You seem the most reasonable guy here.
    As the guy said increased focus
    Wouldn't it be more decreased focus because of all the testosterone so they'll be thinking about sex and women all day, and also increased energy levels? I have never felt any different from ****ing than when I don't.
    No.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12659241

    I totally agree with your points, if fapping stops you from being active and intelligent, then you don't deserve to breed!
    I'll take you seriously when you say something that makes you look like you know what you're talking about
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    No.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12659241



    I'll take you seriously when you say something that makes you look like you know what you're talking about
    Sad indictment of who you are as a person if you need to abstain to what amounts to be a very pleasurable activity just so you can have enough motivation and energy....... I suspect you have seen measurable improvements in life because of the increase of these things? .......... Or not because you know, nearly every human being who ever lived has masturbated (probably) and most don't need to quit to live a good life when they're not doing it.
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    The problem with anecdotal evidence is that it's unreliable and the problem with empirical evidence is that it's hard to obtain. The fact there is no empirical evidence either way doesn't mean it isn't true.

    Believing in God will make you happier. There is strong evidence supporting the correlation. No idea what you're trying to say here... seems a bad analogy.
    There is no empirical evidence to say that fairies and unicorns aren't real.

    But we know that they aren't. It's a common argument that "because there isn't evidence either way" it means that both outcomes are as likely as each other. This simply isn't the case.

    And as for believing in God making you happy, absolute rubbish. Some people may be happy as they believe in a god, but I am extremely happy knowing that gods do not exist.
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    (Original post by theonefrombrum)
    Sad indictment of who you are as a person if you need to abstain to what amounts to be a very pleasurable activity just so you can have enough motivation and energy....... I suspect you have seen measurable improvements in life because of the increase of these things? .......... Or not because you know, nearly every human being who ever lived has masturbated (probably) and most don't need to quit to live a good life when they're not doing it.
    You're putting words in my mouth. I don't fapstain to have "enough" but rather to have as much as possible. Your bitterness towards me and spouting complete bs which I didn't actually say suggests you have more hangups towards the subject than I do.
    There's no evidence that "nearly every human being who ever lived has masturbated." It's a widely accepted but unfounded assumption.

    (Original post by ScottScott)
    There is no empirical evidence to say that fairies and unicorns aren't real.

    But we know that they aren't. It's a common argument that "because there isn't evidence either way" it means that both outcomes are as likely as each other. This simply isn't the case.

    And as for believing in God making you happy, absolute rubbish. Some people may be happy as they believe in a god, but I am extremely happy knowing that gods do not exist.
    That is an outlandish extrapolation. We can be intuitively certain that fairies and unicorns don't exist. There is no basis for the hypotheses that they do but there is valid premise for masturbation not always being a good thing. Furthermore there IS some small empirical causal evidence that begins to suggest that masturbation isn't as good as everyone thinks. I have already linked it. If you don't want to read it, that's your problem. There are many studies showing correlation between masturbation and depression but the causal link isn't made.

    It's a well observed phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_happiness
    The point is not that you are happy in not believing in a god, but that people in general are happier when they believe in one. You talk about empirical evidence but where it exists, you fail to recognize it. Twice.

    I can't be bothered to argue any further with either of you. If you genuinely want to find out if it works, try it. If you don't then don't.
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    The only people who have a problem with nofap are the ones who can't keep their grimy hands of their little todger and probably have never had female contact before in their lives.
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    At 00:00 on the 1st of Jan 2014, there will be flooding of an 'unknown substance'...everyone will do at least 16 hrs of it to defy the challenge as it ends

    XD


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