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    (Original post by Lumos)
    it doesn't matter how slowly I have to pay it back, I still have to pay it back! I don't know where you're getting 27k from? for 4 years with living costs of 8k/year it would work out to 32k on those costs alone.

    in total it's still £68000 to attend a london uni for 4 years, no matter how slowly you pay it back.
    Most degree courses in London are 3 years, not 4.

    UK loans are written off after 30 years, whereas US loans are not.

    You don't have to continue repaying UK loans if your income drops below £21k (for instance, if you get made redundant), whereas you do have to continue paying US loans.

    And spreading the payment does make it easier. If (to pluck figures from thin air) you earn £2000 per month, then paying £22.50 per month under the UK system is going to be a lot less painful than paying £200, as you might on a US loan.

    You don't say what your household income is, but much of that £8000 per year in living costs will be made up of grants and bursaries if you have a low income.

    For the vast majority of people, a US degree is a much more expensive offering, for no discernible benefit.
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    (Original post by Origami Bullets)
    Most degree courses in London are 3 years, not 4.

    UK loans are written off after 30 years, whereas US loans are not.

    You don't have to continue repaying UK loans if your income drops below £21k (for instance, if you get made redundant), whereas you do have to continue paying US loans.

    And spreading the payment does make it easier. If (to pluck figures from thin air) you earn £2000 per month, then paying £22.50 per month under the UK system is going to be a lot less painful than paying £200, as you might on a US loan.

    You don't say what your household income is, but much of that £8000 per year in living costs will be made up of grants and bursaries if you have a low income.

    For the vast majority of people, a US degree is a much more expensive offering, for no discernible benefit.
    as a history+german student, my course would be 4 years. I wouldn't recieve any bursaries or loans in the UK as my household income is above the £45000 bracket, but in the US I would recieve a significant amount. you might end up owing your parents £40,000 for a US degree... which I'm not saying is ideal, but better than a bank loan at 10% interest. In any case, it's very hard for international students to get loans.
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    (Original post by Lumos)
    as a history+german student, my course would be 4 years. I wouldn't recieve any bursaries or loans in the UK as my household income is above the £45000 bracket, but in the US I would recieve a significant amount. you might end up owing your parents £40,000 for a US degree... which I'm not saying is ideal, but better than a bank loan at 10% interest. In any case, it's very hard for international students to get loans.
    You can get a £5k maintenance loan without means testing. That is just added onto your tuition fees loan and will probably end up being written off. Its basically free money.

    I can't think of a circumstance where the US would be cheaper or even comparable. Factor in £4,000 of flights as well.

    Maybe if you got 5 A*s at A-level and got a full scholarship to Harvard or something it might work out better. But in every other circumstance you're basically throwing money away for no real benefit. Just do a year abroad if you're so desperate to experience an American Uni.
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    (Original post by Lumos)

    I know the way the loans work, but if I earn over £21000 per year before I'm 30, and I hope I will, I WILL have to pay it back.
    You'll have to pay some of it back, chances you pay all? Slim, unless you have a really good job. To give an idea my mate has just started at a Big 4 in London, he earns good money and will go on to earn a lot. Recently his brother was looking at uni and worried about paying off the cost. My mate did the maths (and I trust his accounting) and worked out even if his brother got the exact same job as him (ie. one of the better paying grad roles) he probably wouldn't pay it all off by the 25 year point.

    Fair enough apply to the international need blind ones, but you probably have have to accept your chances of getting in aren't great. That's no slight on you, it's just an inevitable conclusion of acceptance rates that sometimes go below 10%, HYP make Oxbridge admission look a doddle. Even with top grades, a perfect SAT score and a multiple Olympic golds (or equivalent drama, music or volunteering) as your hook you can be rejected. What I'm saying is have a go, but don't pin your hopes on it and, unless your parents are willing to cover your entire living costs, without the maintenance loan it's probably still as expensive to go there (I know the amount mates there on an athletic full ride owe, still a lot).
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    (Original post by gijops)
    I Lived in the US for 6 years and some of the friends I made are in Ivy League schools now (Princeton and Yale). And I'm sorry to tell you it's not like what you see in the movies. First of all, the drinking age is 21 and states in the north-east take this very seriously so you can indeed be kicked out of uni for drinking. Second, From my experience in the States I can tell you parties actually suck (on a general basis compared to England) because America has no where near the free spirits that England does, Except in certain areas like: San Fransisco, Boston and Miami.

    And lastly, One of my Pals goes to the University of Georgia which was ranked #1 American party school by Playboy magazine. And he said the parties there are nothing like what you see on American Pie so not even the stateside's finest can live up to the illusion that these silly movies have given the world.

    also in terms of expenses, Harvard is roughly 54k per year for a four year degree that's 216k, dunno how anyone thinks Britain is anywhere near that in price. However if you get into MIT it could very easily be free.

    Nonetheless, the partying may be lamer but that doesn't mean you wont have as much, if not more fun in an American school. For example, American schools are crazy about sports so if your keen, you can make it into a NCAA team which will have its games shown on TV! Also, Car insurance and Fuel is a lot cheaper so if you have that dream of driving while in uni then the US is the place to be.


    In my opinion; none of the benefactors can outweigh the cost of American universities which is easily up to $40,000 per year which is around £25,000 and paying off loans after uni in America is actually a struggle whereas loans in the UK are like pocket change.

    Having spent most my life in America, I approve of this message entirely. American unis are only worth it if you can get a job where the pay is substantially higher than in the UK, e.g. law or medicine.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    You can get a £5k maintenance loan without means testing. That is just added onto your tuition fees loan and will probably end up being written off. Its basically free money.

    I can't think of a circumstance where the US would be cheaper or even comparable. Factor in £4,000 of flights as well.

    Maybe if you got 5 A*s at A-level and got a full scholarship to Harvard or something it might work out better. But in every other circumstance you're basically throwing money away for no real benefit. Just do a year abroad if you're so desperate to experience an American Uni.
    'Probably' be written off? Anyone who secures a well paid job after uni will write it off. You don't have to get 5A*s to get a scholarship to Harvard, if your household income is under 50k, you will. In which case you're only paying for flights - lets say you fly come home 3 times a year. East coast flights are around £400 for a return. So you end up spending £4000 on travel, but nothing else. Even with maintenance loans and tuition loans, 2-4k of your living costs per year still wouldn't be covered. That's an average of £9000 out of pocket by the time you graduate.

    Obviously of your family is well off, UK unis are the better option. For lower middle class families, the substantial financial aid that many US unis offer is actually better.
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    (Original post by roh)
    You'll have to pay some of it back, chances you pay all? Slim, unless you have a really good job. To give an idea my mate has just started at a Big 4 in London, he earns good money and will go on to earn a lot. Recently his brother was looking at uni and worried about paying off the cost. My mate did the maths (and I trust his accounting) and worked out even if his brother got the exact same job as him (ie. one of the better paying grad roles) he probably wouldn't pay it all off by the 25 year point.

    Fair enough apply to the international need blind ones, but you probably have have to accept your chances of getting in aren't great. That's no slight on you, it's just an inevitable conclusion of acceptance rates that sometimes go below 10%, HYP make Oxbridge admission look a doddle. Even with top grades, a perfect SAT score and a multiple Olympic golds (or equivalent drama, music or volunteering) as your hook you can be rejected. What I'm saying is have a go, but don't pin your hopes on it and, unless your parents are willing to cover your entire living costs, without the maintenance loan it's probably still as expensive to go there (I know the amount mates there on an athletic full ride owe, still a lot).
    I know it's a long shot. I have applied to UK unis as well, and you're right, most admissions rates at the very best unis are around 8%.... Then again it's around 8% for my course at Bristol, UCL, Durham....

    It's true that lot of incredibly well qualified people don't get places, but plenty of people who DON'T have any extraordinary achievements are admitted too. They're not looking for superheroes, just people who will do well in ther environment.
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    (Original post by Lumos)
    I know it's a long shot. I have applied to UK unis as well, and you're right, most admissions rates at the very best unis are around 8%.... Then again it's around 8% for my course at Bristol, UCL, Durham....

    It's true that lot of incredibly well qualified people don't get places, but plenty of people who DON'T have any extraordinary achievements are admitted too. They're not looking for superheroes, just people who will do well in ther environment.
    Yeah, you might as well, just also don't necessarily think of it as the cheaper option.

    Just on the party thing, I don't know anyone at Ivies but at not dissimilar places (Cal, Stanford etc.) and they verify that it is not exactly raving. They are on full rides so obviously have commitments not to drink as much as scholar-athletes, but from what they say it applies across all the college, not just the athletic dept.
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    (Original post by Lumos)
    'Probably' be written off? Anyone who secures a well paid job after uni will write it off. You don't have to get 5A*s to get a scholarship to Harvard, if your household income is under 50k, you will. In which case you're only paying for flights - lets say you fly come home 3 times a year. East coast flights are around £400 for a return. So you end up spending £4000 on travel, but nothing else. Even with maintenance loans and tuition loans, 2-4k of your living costs per year still wouldn't be covered. That's an average of £9000 out of pocket by the time you graduate.

    Obviously of your family is well off, UK unis are the better option. For lower middle class families, the substantial financial aid that many US unis offer is actually better.
    We've already established that that isn't even remotely true. I even did the maths for you. You don't seem to have done much research into the options available for UK students.

    For lower income families, the upfront cost of a degree in this country is ZERO. Everything is paid for with grants and loans. Tuition, accommodation, livings Costs.

    Yes you have student loan repayments afterwards, but the present value of them will be between zero pounds and about £20k. Thats nothing compared to the very real debt you would have to get into to be able to go to a US university even if you were lucky enough to get some kind of financial aid.
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    I've got a place at Yale, which is known as the 'party Ivy' along with Brown... When I visited my host took me to a couple of parties and they have no problem getting alcohol. At Yale the fraternities throw good parties that everyone can go to.
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    (Original post by gijops)
    In more historical schools such as the Ivy league, Fraternities are held in high regard by the dean and administrators as they have initiation tests that require all members to know a LOT about the history of their university, like when it was made, who founded it and so on.
    i went to an ivy, brown, and i can categorically confirm that this statement is utterly wrong. fraternities would be banned if uni admin had anything to do with it - it is alumni pressure that keeps them going.

    if all you want to do is party you will flunk out of any ivy - where the workload is much higher than any uk uni with the possible exception of oxbridge (i did an undergrad year at UCL and have masters from LSE and UCL). there is plenty of booze about, but the drinking culture is nothing like most uk unis. you will fit right in at one of the big state colleges though.
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    (Original post by Lumos)
    Consider also, that living costs, textbooks and food are included in the price of American universities.
    this simply is not true, especially with regard to books.

    bear in mind also that the 'average' financial aid package may require you to work 15/20 hours a week (maybe with a 6am start serving breakfast in the cafeteria).
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    (Original post by Lumos)
    East coast flights are around £400 for a return.
    you are clearly deluded. i hope that you don't want to come home at christmas, easter or for the summer holidays.
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    (Original post by Lumos)
    It's true that lot of incredibly well qualified people don't get places, but plenty of people who DON'T have any extraordinary achievements are admitted too. They're not looking for superheroes, just people who will do well in ther environment.
    Um, I can totally back this up!!! I have 5 friends which were admitted to need-blind institutions with full financial aid and are perfectly normal, despite their exceptional grades and personalities :')

    3 to Yale, 1 to Harvard and 1 to Dartmouth...

    I can assure you that IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THIS and get the funding to do so...
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    If you get accepted to an Ivy League school and you can afford it (or your parents can), then I say go.

    The drinking age is higher, sure but Americans are very outgoing and they have much more of a 'college community' than in Europe. If you're afraid of not having fun, that won't happen. Sure they don't 'party' like in the UK (behaving like chavs) but the benefits of an Ivy League will weight 1000x having to drink to less or nothing for a couple of teenage years (if you think your best partying years are pre 21, you're wrong).
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    (Original post by BO'H)
    you are clearly deluded. i hope that you don't want to come home at christmas, easter or for the summer holidays.
    http://www.skyscanner.net/flights/lo...uary-2013.html
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    (Original post by BO'H)
    this simply is not true, especially with regard to books.

    bear in mind also that the 'average' financial aid package may require you to work 15/20 hours a week (maybe with a 6am start serving breakfast in the cafeteria).
    Yale expressly states on their financial aid pages that their attendance cost, on which they base their financial aid packages, includes books.

    They also state that a student job will be a maximum of 12 hours a week.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    We've already established that that isn't even remotely true. I even did the maths for you. You don't seem to have done much research into the options available for UK students.

    For lower income families, the upfront cost of a degree in this country is ZERO. Everything is paid for with grants and loans. Tuition, accommodation, livings Costs.

    Yes you have student loan repayments afterwards, but the present value of them will be between zero pounds and about £20k. Thats nothing compared to the very real debt you would have to get into to be able to go to a US university even if you were lucky enough to get some kind of financial aid.
    have we established that?

    I'm fully aware that students with a household income of under £45,000 can recieve substancial grants and bursaries, and may indeed have no tuition fees to pay at all. What I am talking about here is middle class families that may earn £50,000 a year and do not get that aid.

    We are getting off topic here. I am willing to conceed that US university tuition costs are astronomically higher than UK tuition costs, and that they have no loan repayment scheme in place to lessen the load on students graduating with debts. I also conceed that a significant number of people will not qualify for financial aid, or do not attend colleges that offer financial aid. I conceed that, for a US university to make more financial sense than a UK university, your parents must be within a very specific income bracket.

    Do you conceed that in some cases, in which a family just escapes the income bracket for UK grants and bursaries, and in which a student does recieve a full financial scholarship from a US college, US universities may make more financial sense than UK universities?
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    (Original post by cheese-lemming)
    Um, I can totally back this up!!! I have 5 friends which were admitted to need-blind institutions with full financial aid and are perfectly normal, despite their exceptional grades and personalities :')

    3 to Yale, 1 to Harvard and 1 to Dartmouth...

    I can assure you that IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO THIS and get the funding to do so...
    THANK YOU! I feel like all I ever read is "oh well there was this girl X, she got 800 on all her SATs and 7A*s at A Level and she was an olympic gymnast and she was in the london symphony orchestra and she speaks 12 languages and SHE DIDN'T GET IN so no one can!!"

    It's like the Daily Mail articles that come out like clockwork every August... 'boy with 4A*s doesn't get a place at cambridge for Medicine, everyone is horrified"

    maybe, just MAYBE, it's not all about letters and numbers? the fact is these people must have had some seriously bad essays/ interviews/ personality traits that made them seem uninteresting or artificial to the admissions people. I visited Yale last summer, and everyone I met was exceptionally normal. compared to the people you see on college confidential.... (a US version of the student room in which everyone is imsoacademic)
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    They don't say 'look left, look right, one of the people you are now looking at will not be here when you graduate' at UK universities. One of the reasons for this is that most 'vocational' careers in the US are done through grad school, so people are still very competitive with their undergrad degrees. Thus less parties, and if you do party too much, you'll have to drop out.

    Unless you have something (school, family or sport), you won't get in with the in crowd, and no good parties; unless you market yourself all the time.
 
 
 
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