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    (Original post by Mourinho<3)
    The only question originally asked was "For how many years have MP's under both Labour and Conservative been doing things like this?" So their expenses ARE relavant. His car service is not the only issue. The original point was that the morality of MP's seems to be a bit off. I did say YEARS! in my post.
    Which demands that you show that the perfectly reasonable employment of an efficiency-increasing car service is "like this".

    I would -- and have desperately been trying to -- contend that it is not "like this" in the sense in which you're using "like this".
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    (Original post by rmpr97)
    Wow, big woop. MP uses chauffeur so he can work, and not have any sensitive information released, while he travels when MP's already do quite a lot already.

    If he's working, on top of working, can't he be spared a little luxury, instead of working for the good of the country in a cramped train where he can't maximise his time as he'll only be able to work on non-sensitive information.
    You are talking absolute crap. He is the MP for Chelmsford, and he has a second home that we pay for in London. The commute on a train from Chelmsford to London is less than an hour each way. Everyone else in the country would have to travel from Chelmsford to London every day, but he gets a house so he makes the commute only a couple of times a week at max. His time is not worth so much that it is worth 80k for him to be able to work for a few extra hours a week. Indeed he can do all the 'confidential' work he likes on the train, in first class. (Just how much confidential work you think he has to do I have to question, I mean I suspect a social worker probably has much more confidential work, and probably has to commute at least an hour every day where they drive themselves)
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You are talking absolute crap. He is the MP for Chelmsford, and he has a second home that we pay for in London. The commute on a train from Chelmsford to London is less than an hour each way. Everyone else in the country would have to travel from Chelmsford to London every day, but he gets a house so he makes the commute only a couple of times a week at max. His time is not worth so much that it is worth 80k for him to be able to work for a few extra hours a week. Indeed he can do all the 'confidential' work he likes on the train, in first class. (Just how much confidential work you think he has to do I have to question, I mean I suspect a social worker probably has much more confidential work, and probably has to commute at least an hour every day where they drive themselves)
    First class travel everyday will probably amount to roughly the same. Also, that would be the majority of the journeys he makes, but I suspect there would be others, slightly more longer journeys. Especially if he's London, where public transport is ram packed and takes ages in peak times.

    And if there are people around then chances are he couldn't do that work on first class. Even then, it's a small price to pay for the comfort of a man who's working (while travelling) and running the country.
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    (Original post by rmpr97)
    First class travel everyday will probably amount to roughly the same. Also, that would be the majority of the journeys he makes, but I suspect there would be others, slightly more longer journeys. Especially if he's London, where public transport is ram packed and takes ages in peak times.

    And if there are people around then chances are he couldn't do that work on first class. Even then, it's a small price to pay for the comfort of a man who's working (while travelling) and running the country.
    He doesn't need first class travel every day. MPs mostly go home on weekends, so one commute in and out of London per week. Sure, there is a reasonable amount of needing to go around London, but not enough to justify spending what amounts to 10 normal working people's tax for an entire year. Yep, his time is apparently so valuable that ten normal people have to work until tax freedom day so he doesn't have to travel anywhere near him.

    It is a comfort thing, not a practical thing. It's not like he is a dignitary. Aside from the heads of major corporations, even top tier executives don't have chauffeur services, and they make money.
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    Complete hypocrisy, but are we really suprised?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    He doesn't need first class travel every day. MPs mostly go home on weekends, so one commute in and out of London per week. Sure, there is a reasonable amount of needing to go around London, but not enough to justify spending what amounts to 10 normal working people's tax for an entire year. Yep, his time is apparently so valuable that ten normal people have to work until tax freedom day so he doesn't have to travel anywhere near him.

    It is a comfort thing, not a practical thing. It's not like he is a dignitary. Aside from the heads of major corporations, even top tier executives don't have chauffeur services, and they make money.
    Very well said.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Which demands that you show that the perfectly reasonable employment of an efficiency-increasing car service is "like this".

    I would -- and have desperately been trying to -- contend that it is not "like this" in the sense in which you're using "like this".
    I don't believe his expense is neccessary though. Elipsis has said what I am trying to much better! But he could commute like everyone else has to.

    EDIT; This is very much an opinion thing. For me, I believe this does fall under unreasonable expenses. For others, no. If believing this makes me an "idiot" then fine, but I suspect that actually the idiots are the ones who try to justify such huge sums being spent on what is not a neccesity.
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    The swine can get to work like the rest of us...

    My efficiency would perhaps increase if I got a private car and driver paid for. I doubt it though...

    All in this together my arse.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You are talking absolute crap. He is the MP for Chelmsford, and he has a second home that we pay for in London.
    "I have given up my second home in London..." he said. So no, he doesn't.

    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Indeed he can do all the 'confidential' work he likes on the train, in first class.
    Instead of the taxpayer coughing up for a chauffeur, we instead pay for first class train tickets. Yea, that would save money.;
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    (Original post by kbw)
    "I have given up my second home in London..." he said. So no, he doesn't.



    Instead of the taxpayer coughing up for a chauffeur, we instead pay for first class train tickets. Yea, that would save money.;
    A first class season ticket with an underground pass for an entire year costs £7,000. Or... a saving of £73,000. Or 4 social workers, or 2 teachers, or 3 nurses.
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    (Original post by Mourinho<3)
    80k a year is not a little luxury. Not when that is several times many people's entire salary!
    Sigh... it does not cost £80,000 a year to drive him from home to his office. That's presumably the departmental contribution to the Government car pool. Not that the bloody newspapers see fit to print actual facts like that. And oh look, there's been a bloody 72% decrease in the cost of the service since the present government took office.

    If you're going to engage in the cheap but fashionable sport of politician-baiting - putting people who might otherwise want to become an MP off entirely, destroying the relationship between citizens and their representatives and generally wasting everyone's time - then at least get your facts right.

    Does he get a chauffer because he finds it nicer than a train?
    The existence of the Government Car Service predates the birth or either you or I and is available to every government minister.

    Maybe its just me but I hope your being sarcastic and I am just too silly to see it but for the "good of the country" why not get people such as him to live like the vast majority have to and save a literal fortune!
    Because if we were to pay a bog-standard wage we'd get absolutely **** Ministers. These are the people running the country, not some admin assistant in an office in Kettering.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    A first class season ticket with an underground pass for an entire year costs £7,000. Or... a saving of £73,000. Or 4 social workers, or 2 teachers, or 3 nurses.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...limo-work.html

    This article sums up nicely the objections, as well as the flaws of those supporting him.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Sigh... it does not cost £80,000 a year to drive him from home to his office. That's presumably the departmental contribution to the Government car pool. Not that the bloody newspapers see fit to print actual facts like that.

    The cost is still far too much. MP's should have to pay to get to work like everyone else. Other politicans work on trains but he can't?

    The existence of the Government Car Service predates the birth or either you or I and is available to every government minister.

    In times of cutbacks being made that are really affecting people I'm sure this is one area of many where MP's are taking the piss really.

    Because if we were to pay a bog-standard wage we'd get absolutely **** Ministers. These are the people running the country, not some admin assistant in an office in Kettering.
    Who said pay them a bog standard wage? They get a good one, one that can also be topped up by too many MP's with ridiculous expenses' claims.
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    (Original post by Mourinho<3)
    I am actually sick of reading this to be honest.
    Yes, so am I. Am I sick to death of the general public happily cheerleading our awful, feckless media in these utterly degrading stories. I'm sick of people merrily reading their garbage and swallowing the impression - and none of the details - whole. I'm sick of them listening to booze-soaked, bitter "columnists" when they give their opinions in cheap newsprint, yet paying no heed to independent reports, Ministers of the Crown or respected government officials.

    In virtually every government on earth, Ministers travel by government cars. It's not even a luxurious car - it's a bloody Toyota Avensis: you'd be hard pressed to find a more run-of-the-mill saloon if you tried. The reasons given are perfectly proper and the costs are clearly misrepresented in the articles there.

    If you're sick of reading these things, I suggest you write to the newspapers and ask them to stop printing such facile rubbish.
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    The cost is still far too much. MP's should have to pay to get to work like everyone else. Other politicans work on trains but he can't?

    I think you're rather out of touch with what things cost in this day and age. £80,000 is not a lot of money to provide a full car service for an organisation like the Department of Transport.

    In times of cutbacks being made that are really affecting people I'm sure this is one area of many where MP's are taking the piss really.

    Yes, cost-cutting by 72%. Really taking the piss.

    Who said pay them a bog standard wage? They get a good one, one that can also be topped up by too many MP's with ridiculous expenses' claims.

    You did. You said they should be made "to live like the vast majority have to".
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Yes, so am I. Am I sick to death of the general public happily cheerleading our awful, feckless media in these utterly degrading stories. I'm sick of people merrily reading their garbage and swallowing the impression - and none of the details - whole. I'm sick of them listening to booze-soaked, bitter "columnists" when they give their opinions in cheap newsprint, yet paying no heed to independent reports, Ministers of the Crown or respected government officials.

    In virtually every government on earth, Ministers travel by government cars. It's not even a luxurious car - it's a bloody Toyota Avensis: you'd be hard pressed to find a more run-of-the-mill saloon if you tried. The reasons given are perfectly proper and the costs are clearly misrepresented in the articles there.

    If you're sick of reading these things, I suggest you write to the newspapers and ask them to stop printing such facile rubbish.
    Some of what MP's have claimed on expenses in INEXCUSABLE. Doesn't matter how you print it. If you don't agree then fine but that is how I feel. The majority of people probably feel the same way I suspect though.

    EDIT; Living like the vast majority do means paying to get to work. You are on a good salary, do what others have to.
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    What pisses me off is that when they are caught out they simply repay it and expect it to go away (usually it does). Average Joe would be prosecuted.
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    (Original post by Mourinho<3)
    Some of what MP's have claimed on expenses in INEXCUSABLE. Doesn't matter how you print it. If you don't agree then fine but that is how I feel. The majority of people probably feel the same way I suspect though.

    EDIT; Living like the vast majority do means paying to get to work. You are on a good salary, do what others have to.
    Aside from my post above- what was perhaps the worst thing about the expenses scandal is that they used it to buy things like food. Isn't that what wages are for? Politicians in the UK are corrupt, shallow, feckless, idealess wastes of space. Especially Labour politicians.
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    (Original post by Aramiss18)
    Aside from my post above- what was perhaps the worst thing about the expenses scandal is that they used it to buy things like food. Isn't that what wages are for? Politicians in the UK are corrupt, shallow, feckless, idealess wastes of space. Especially Labour politicians.
    People on less money than them do not get food paid for them. Travel. The article I pasted a link to describes what some use the "expenses" for. It is unfair and they try to come down hard on benefit cheats:rolleyes: oh the irony.

    A few may feel the MP's are warranted to do what they have, and that is fine. Individual cases can be debated for ages. But what has been claimed has been seen, and there are far too many cases if them simply further lining their own pockets with these "expenses".

    If I took that much taxpayers money you are right, I would probably get a criminal record.
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    Why can't this mother chowder get the train
 
 
 
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