Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?

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In the BBC today it has emerged that the Scottish Government wants to be part of a 'sterling zone' with the rest of the UK, with the Finance Minister assuming that this will seemingly happen without the RUK having to rubber stamp it.

Surely a monetary union involving an independent Scotland and the remaining UK members needs to be approved by both?

He goes on to accuse Osborne of 'playing with fire' when he says that the UK could legitimately reject having Scotland as part of the currency union. This could, he says, enable Scotland to justify worming its way out of its share of UK national debt if they no longer had any economic interest in the latter.

Is this not a surprising level of naivete from the man charged with making an independent Scotland financially viable? Suppose the UK rejects a monetary union with the Scots-what currency will you then take on? Are you prepared to take such a huge gamble over an uncertain economic future?

At the end of the day, there should be no 'Independence Lite'-either you fully reject all the current perks, be they political, financial, or otherwise, and truly go it alone, or you don't at all. The SNP's implication is that it can manage completely on its own without the UK-yet the indications would appear to be otherwise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22251103

I saw it. The man is a prize chod for coming out with that statement. If he's after seperation I just wish he'd have the balls to embrace it in its entirety.

Then again. I've said it before I don't believe that the SNP are thinking long term. They are just trying to spread as much bull as they can to secure a yes vote. They're not bothered what happens after that, as politicians they'll be ok with their rather large final salary pensions.

So far my options are in order to get the full economic levers.

1) Create a new currency that will have to be ditched as soon as the Euro is Foisted on us and then lose control over our economy to Brussels/Berlin.
2) Remain in a Sterling Zone and have Westminster tell us what are economic policy is without the benefit of representation in Westminster.
3) Join the Euro straight away and have Brussels/Berlin tell us what our economic policy is.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 2141

Maths Tutor

An independent Scotland will have policies which benefit its 5 million or so habitants. It will no longer be forced to follow policies which are primarily designed for the benefit of London and the South East of England.

An independent Scotland can and will keep Sterling as its currency - as long as it is in its interests to do so.

At some stage after independence, it may decide that it is in its best interests to leave Sterling and form a currency union with Norway, or to join the Euro, or to have its own currency like Norway, Sweden and Denmark.

For further thoughts on the matter of Scotland using Sterling:

http://www.yesscotland.net/questions_on_currency?utm_source=yesscotland&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=currencyupdate&rec
ruiter_id=8596

http://wingsoverscotland.com/recycle-repackage-repeat/

Reply 2142

MatureStudent36

Original post by Maths Tutor

Firstly you're two websites are biased websites as they're funded by the SNP. Hardly independent news sources. It's a bit like putting up the BNP, or Combat 19 website up for a debate on immigration.

Can you clarify what policies are being enacted by Westminster for the benefit of London and the South East? I keep hearing this but nobody has explained why. Infact former Labour MP

We can continue to use sterling if we want to, after all Panama uses the US Dollar however there's no guarantee that it will be part of a fiscal union. There's formal and informal currency unions. Generally informal ones don't work, and folowing the PIIGS issue in the Eurozone, people are starting to realise that you can't have formal currency unions without political unions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_union

That means that all we'll be doing is pegging our money to what the Bank of England does, which as we're not in the UK, means that we have no say as to what will happen to interest rates etc. After all, the Bank of England takes into account the economic needs of the UK as a whole. Ireland tried this in 1922 with the Punt. It wasn't at all good for their economy and it took until teh 1970's, some 40 odd years until they joined the European Monetary system that they sort of got economic control over, but then they joined the Euro as that still wasn't ideal and we all know what's happened since then.

The other problem we have by not being in a monetary union is that we have no lender of last resort such as the Bank of England, which means we have a destabilising effect on the economy. The financial sector in Edinburgh, currently ranked as teh 14th largest in Europe and responsible for 6% of our GDP and 5% of our employement is likely to take a hammering as financial centres normally need a central bank for backing and access to a stock exchange. I've used Panama as an example earlier so I'll use it again. If the Panamanian government gets into trouble, even though they us the US Dollar, the US Federal Reserve doesn't bail them out as there's no formal currency union.

You've mentioned the Euro and Norway.

The SNP has claimed that they want us in the Europe. As part of admittance for new countries into Europe they have to adopt the Euro, which means we're heading for the Euro at some point. I find it amazing that you're saying if we decide, as a few days ago you were screaming blue murder about David Cameron offering to give us a referendum on the issue claiming that it was going against the wishes of teh Scottish people.

You've also mentioned a currency union with Norway. That's a new one on me. Has anybody asked the Norwegians about this? After all it'll be their central bank that needs to agree taking on another nations liabilities when by the SNPs own admission, we'll be in a more difficult financial situation in 2017/2018 than we already are now. (Paragraphs 20 to 30 from the SNPs own report)

http://b.3cdn.net/better/c1d14076ee08022eec_u9m6vd74f.pdf

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 2143

Maths Tutor

"Osborne's threat shows independence is viable"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/osbornes-threat-shows-independence-is-viable.20893521

Reply 2144

MatureStudent36

Original post by Maths Tutor

"Osborne's threat shows independence is viable"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/osbornes-threat-shows-independence-is-viable.20893521

I can't see anything. You'll have to cut and paste the whole article.

Reply 2145

L i b

[QUOTE="Tutor;42341130" Maths="Maths"]No, it is making the likes of yourself, MatureStudent36, Good bloke, Midlander etc, look like 'nutters' as your LIES, DISTORTIONS, HYPOCRISY and DOUBLE STANDARDS are exposed in full.

Quite. I'm sure we all look like the unreasonable ones here.

Original post by Maths Tutor

Tell that to your fellow British Nationalists - Lib, MatureStudent36, Good bloke, Midlander etc. I have to concede you don't seem to be in the same league as them.

I'm no more a British nationalist than you are an out-and-out fascist, so keep that sort of vile rhetoric to yourself.

I find your nationalism repugnant, base and irrational. Don't try to tar me with the same brush.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 2146

Maths Tutor

Breaking News:

Arch opponent of Scottish Independence, flier of a flag of British Nationalism ('Rule Britannia'), denies being a British Nationalist.

Reply 2147

Maths Tutor

The chairman of the Scottish Co-operative Party believes Scottish independence will be a good thing:

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/opinion/comment/socialism-will-work-better-in-independent-scotland-1-2903981

http://news.stv.tv/politics/222272-scottish-co-operative-party-chairman-mary-lockhart-backs-independence/

http://scotland.party.coop/

"Described as Labour's sister party, the Co-operative has five MSPs including Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont."

To clarify for British Nationalists, The Scottish Co-operative Party, The Scotsman and STV are NOT in any way associated with the SNP.

Reply 2148

MatureStudent36

Original post by Maths Tutor

Breaking news, one person from another political party joins the SNP led campaign. But it doesn't mean the party is backing it. So you're words are slightly misrepresentative.

This referendum is a little like peoples views on the EU. There's Left and right, and for and against. You can have left for, left against, right for and right against. And that;s not even taking into account those who consider themselves centre or extreme. Most people s views are entrenched irrespective of which party they follow.

So although a socialist is buying into the SNPs socialist dream of the future, the majority of the electorate still aren't. This however means that even less people who voted for teh SNP actually want separation

and I do wish you'd stop using the term british national. You and the SNP aren't able to make the claim on everything and anything scottish. The majority of the electorate can celebrate our Scottishness from inside the UK.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 2149

MatureStudent36

So which currency are we going for now?

TWO prominent figures in the pro-independence movement today step up calls for Alex Salmond to back an independent Scottish currency, saying it is a “prerequisite” to ensure genuine sovereignty for the country.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independence-salmond-must-back-scots-currency-1-2913013

Can I kiss my pension and savings goodbye, or am I best to keep them in a 'foreign' country?

Reply 2150

FinalMH

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2316532/Alex-Salmond-pressure-thirds-thumbs-dream-independent-Scotland.html

"all you gloating english who are so desperate to get rid of us are in for a big disappointment,we will remain in the union and will continue to bank roll the south as we currently do."

It is sad when you read the comments on the page :/

Reply 2151

MatureStudent36

Original post by FinalMH

Try getting on the Scotsman comments page and you'll see equally narrowed viewpoints from North of the Border.

Basically it's a case of narrow minded idiot north of the border gets upset by what some narrow minded idiot south of the Border says and vice versa.

I wouldn't take too much interest in it. Basically the internet has given every freak and weirdo a medium to express their bigoted views.

You only have to see in the inane rambling s of Maths tutor to see that.

Anyway, where is Maths Tutor? He's been very quiet the past few days. Interestingly enough, the CyberNAT bombardment of the Scotsman's comments page has gone down some what. Maybe the 30 odd prolific posters they have using multiple different names on various websites to give the impression of mass support for their cause have been recalled to deliver a new on line strategy. Maybe the NationalCollectives failure to raise it's funding total of £16K which as been stuck at the £1.5K. Maybe it's a case of most of the believers in a separate Scotland are sitting their highers at the moment.

P.S my opinion is teh chod that wrote the Daily mail comment is actually English.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 2152

Maths Tutor

Why Scotland Should Vote ‘Yes’ to Independence:

http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/why-scotland-should-vote-yes-to-independence/

Reply 2153

Maths Tutor

Will the rUK Treasury steal all our pensions after we become independent?

Reply 2154

MatureStudent36

Original post by Maths Tutor

Will the rUK Treasury steal all our pensions after we become independent?

Probably not, but they won't be making up the shortfall. But then again, that won't be their problem, that'll be ours. Obviously the freedom that you desire will be coming at a cost.

This isn't anything new though. They've been highlighting the pensions issue for some time, but Alex Salmond has just shouted 'Scaremongering' and ignored the issue, like so many other issues that he's chosen to ignore.

What's your views on the separate currency that senior SNP members are saying we should adopt?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independence-salmond-must-back-scots-currency-1-2913013

What do you think the impact of that will be on our economy? Or are you still after a currency union with Norway?

Reply 2155

Maths Tutor

"So although a socialist is buying into the SNPs socialist dream of the future, the majority of the electorate still aren't."

Thought the majority of the Scottish electorate were 'socialist'.

How can the SNP be 'socialist' and 'Tartan Tories' at the same time?

Is Scottish Labour, under the leadership of Johann 'something for nothing' Lamont, 'socialist'?

47% of the electorate that voted in 2011 liked SNP policies, not too far out from a 'majority'.

Reply 2156

MatureStudent36

Original post by Maths Tutor

Why Scotland Should Vote ‘Yes’ to Independence:

http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/why-scotland-should-vote-yes-to-independence/

Great, another non descripte website that you're blindly going to believe.

Try reading this one.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/wbcinfo/aboutwbc.html

You can radicalise yourself in another medium.

Reply 2157

MatureStudent36

Original post by Maths Tutor

I was merely highlighting that Wendy has stood down from her party as her party doesn't back her policies.

Yes, the SNP got 47% of the vote on a 50% turnout, yet they still can't seem to get past that magic band of 30 to 35% who support their ultimate aim of separation.

I think you'll find that the SNP have got their name the Tartan Tories for trying to promote a low tax regime with a high dependency on the public sector.

It's the low tax regime that's got them the Tory nickname as that's normally a Tory policy.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 2158

R-KAM

Subbing to the thread.

Just skimming through a bit of it, people don't seem to know Scotland couldn't join the Euro even if we wanted to.

Reply 2159

Psyk

Original post by R-KAM

Subbing to the thread.

Just skimming through a bit of it, people don't seem to know Scotland couldn't join the Euro even if we wanted to.

Why not? I realise that an independent Scotland probably wouldn't be in a position to adopt the Euro straight away, but I thought that they'd probably be obliged to move towards it like most non-Eurozone EU countries are (e.g. Poland, Czech Republic).