Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Maths Tutor
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#3681
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#3681
(Original post by DavidSilvaMCFC)
Why is pride necessary? What is the point in pride? Why should somebody be proud of something they didn't achieve?
I was born in England completely by chance.
I'm English simply because I fell out of a vagina in between some lines on a map.
I didn't have any choice. Why should I feel proud or guilty of being from a certain country? Someone should be proud and be judged on their own achievements and personality, not on the achievements and personality of others. Am I grateful to bre English/British? Yes. Am I proud? No.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson
Can you please ask those 'proud', 'patriotic' Scots at 'Better Together' who are unable to defend the union without first declaring their Scottish pride and patriotism?

Let me know when you have the answer, but I won't be holding my breath.
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Maths Tutor
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#3682
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#3682
(Original post by L i b)
Er, no they're not.



The Indians didn't fight for independence on any scale - indeed, there was a chap called Gandhi whose central point was that violence should never be resorted to. He became quite famous.

"First they ignore you,

then they laugh at you,

then they come to fight you,

and then you win."

(M.K. Gandhi)


http://wingsoverscotland.com/
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Amskyr
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#3683
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#3683
I wil b sad, better2gethr




Scotland pls
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Tigers
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#3684
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#3684
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Once again our 'outward looking' nationalist freinds seem to have completly foprgotten about the Welsh and Northern Irish....as well as the Overseas terratories.

Seperatism and the break up of the UK is a minority opinion. It's a minority opnion in Northern Ireland, it's a minority opnion in Wales, it's a minority opnionion in England and it's a minority opinion her in Scotland.
people who have pride and sacrifice for their country are usually a minority
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L i b
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#3685
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#3685
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
"First they ignore you,

then they laugh at you,

then they come to fight you,

and then you win."

(M.K. Gandhi)
Or, as you'll likely learn, most of the time if people are laughing at you, you are ridiculous and will never win anything.
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FinalMH
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#3686
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#3686
What do people make of the recent by-election? With labour beating the SNP ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-fife-24645770
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Good bloke
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#3687
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#3687
(Original post by FinalMH)
What do people make of the recent by-election? With labour beating the SNP ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-fife-24645770
Well, by-elections are notoriously difficult for governing parties to win, so maybe nothing can be gained from looking at it. However, it could be significant that the Labour candidate concentrated on local issues that struck a chord with voters while the SNP went for national issues.
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MatureStudent36
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#3688
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#3688
(Original post by Tigers)
people who have pride and sacrifice for their country are usually a minority
So not a natural majority then.

Incidentally. I have pride in Scotland and will make sacrifices for it. But I'll still be voting no next year.
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Bronco2012
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#3689
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#3689
(Original post by Good bloke)
Well, by-elections are notoriously difficult for governing parties to win, so maybe nothing can be gained from looking at it. However, it could be significant that the Labour candidate concentrated on local issues that struck a chord with voters while the SNP went for national issues.
If anything, it could be said that the Nats tried their damn best to stay away from the dirty I word while Labour successfully turned it in to a microcosm for the referendum.


Given that the Tories admit a large percentage of local supporters tactically voted for labour, it seems that 2011 idea of divorcing the idea of an SNP vote from an independence vote has died now. I expect the SNP to get hammered in the EU elections a few months before the referendum.
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MatureStudent36
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#3690
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#3690
(Original post by Good bloke)
Well, by-elections are notoriously difficult for governing parties to win, so maybe nothing can be gained from looking at it. However, it could be significant that the Labour candidate concentrated on local issues that struck a chord with voters while the SNP went for national issues.
Are they? Elsewhere they seem to be quite straightforward. Most times its a hold. How many by elections have the SNP lost now.

I'm not turning this into party politics, but mainly highlighting the fact that as a political party they're as fallible as the others. They don't have as popular support or moral high ground as their supporters like to think they do.
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Tigers
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#3691
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#3691
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
So not a natural majority then.

Incidentally. I have pride in Scotland and will make sacrifices for it. But I'll still be voting no next year.
Words don't count,actions do. you have pride in Scotland with words but with actions you say no to the existance of Scotland.
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Quady
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#3692
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#3692
(Original post by Tigers)
Words don't count,actions do. you have pride in Scotland with words but with actions you say no to the existance of Scotland.
So you can't be proud of Yorkshire if you would vote no to a Yorkshire independence vote?
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Tigers
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#3693
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#3693
(Original post by Quady)
So you can't be proud of Yorkshire if you would vote no to a Yorkshire independence vote?
is yorkshire a nationality?I see Scotland is considered the same as normal regions and not as a nation.In this case the people of Scotland don't exist.
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FinalMH
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#3694
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#3694
(Original post by Good bloke)
Well, by-elections are notoriously difficult for governing parties to win, so maybe nothing can be gained from looking at it. .
Didn't Alex Salmond debunk that during the council elections.
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wrangled
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#3695
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#3695
Scotland?

What about England?

I'd like to know when England is going to get a Parliament of our own not to mention a referendum on our independence.

I don't remember being asked if i, as an Englishman, would like independence for my country.

Makes me sick.
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MatureStudent36
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#3696
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#3696
(Original post by Tigers)
is yorkshire a nationality?I see Scotland is considered the same as normal regions and not as a nation.In this case the people of Scotland don't exist.
We exist in the same form as the people of England, Wales or Northern Ireland....who equally don't exist on the international scene.

Shall we start to discuss how the ancient people of Mercia don't exist. They used to be a nation as well.
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Good bloke
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#3697
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#3697
(Original post by FinalMH)
Didn't Alex Salmond debunk that during the council elections.
Council elections aren't by-elections and, while there can be an element of protest-voting in them, it is certainly not to the same extent that is seen in parliamentary by-elections. The SNP's previous majority was very slim in this constituency and it was very vulnerable to a protest vote or, indeed, to tactical voting.
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MatureStudent36
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#3698
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#3698
(Original post by Good bloke)
Council elections aren't by-elections and, while there can be an element of protest-voting in them, it is certainly not to the same extent that is seen in parliamentary by-elections. The SNP's previous majority was very slim in this constituency and it was very vulnerable to a protest vote or, indeed, to tactical voting.

slim? There was 7% swing
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Good bloke
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#3699
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#3699
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
slim? There was 7% swing
Maybe, but a tiny swing was all that was required to lose the seat, which is why I describe it as vulnerable.
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MatureStudent36
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#3700
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#3700
(Original post by Good bloke)
Maybe, but a tiny swing was all that was required to lose the seat, which is why I describe it as vulnerable.
True. The SNP did originally only win by 590 votes. It still never stopped them trumpeting it as a major success.
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