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Original post by Libertatem
Yes, England is by far the biggest constituent state of our union. This is why we shouldn't be governed by a government catering mainly for England. We need FULL powers to Holyrood and the only way to do that is to vote yes in the referendum.


The Barnett formula is awful for Scotland to be fair-nearly £2k extra per head in spending than those evil folk doon sooth.


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Original post by etiquette
Full powers, like setting interest rates and so on?

Oh yeah, you're leaving that to the BoE anyway.


It's in the best interest for both Scotland and rUK for a currency union dictated as it currently is.

Original post by Midlander
The Barnett formula is awful for Scotland to be fair-nearly £2k extra per head in spending than those evil folk doon sooth.


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The Barnett formula accounts for oil revenue which Scotland brings in.

£27 billion oil revenue from North Sea Oil (Scottish) in 2011-12

And before you say the extra £2k spending is fair, when the oil is taken into account, think about this: the amount of oil income / scottish population, which is correct as the oil should be ours and only ours.

Expenditure per head in Scotland should be much higher and would be much higher if all oil was utilised by the Scottish government.
Original post by Libertatem
I
But majority of the Scottish Parliament are Scottish. So is he saying that the Scottish Parliament should be infested by English MSPs?


Infested? You have a raging case of xenophobia. So typical for a nationalist. it's like having a conversation with someone who has stepped out of a time machine from the 1930s.

How about we leave the talk of who outnumbers who until we hear the result of the referendum. From personal experience (and, by the way, I'm actually from Scotland so I can gauge it personally, take note) I've experienced a lot more yes voters than no voters.


Yes, because anecdotal evidence is the best kind of evidence :h:
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Midlander
The fact remains that Scotland receives devolved powers and has the luxury of voting on matters in England which do not concern them and has received the second most per head in public spending yet people like you still complain about it.


They also have influence over how monetary and defence policy is made. If (as the SNP claims.. and I do not buy it.. but humouring them) we enter currency union and Scotland is consequently required to conform all their taxation and spending policies to EWNI's pleasure, they will be in pretty much the same position they were pre-independence except now they have absolutely no influence over the fiats coming from Westminster, and the EWNI government will suffer no electoral penalty for really turning the screws north of the border.

Given that the SNP is demanding they remain part of the EU, remain part of NATO, retain the British monarch, retain the pound sterling, continue to take orders from Westminster regarding fiscal policy, I wonder how they imagine this to be independence?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Libertatem
It's in the best interest for both Scotland and rUK for a currency union dictated as it currently is.



The Barnett formula accounts for oil revenue which Scotland brings in.

£27 billion oil revenue from North Sea Oil (Scottish) in 2011-12

And before you say the extra £2k spending is fair, when the oil is taken into account, think about this: the amount of oil income / scottish population, which is correct as the oil should be ours and only ours.

Expenditure per head in Scotland should be much higher and would be much higher if all oil was utilised by the Scottish government.


Then why, even with geographical shares of oil, does the Scottish Government have itself losing billions of pounds a year? Scotland receives more in public spending than it contributes.


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Original post by MostUncivilised
They also have influence over how monetary and defence policy is made. If (as the SNP claims.. and I do not buy it.. but humouring them) we enter currency union and Scotland is consequently required to conform all their taxation and spending policies to EWNI's pleasure, they will be in pretty much the same position they were pre-independence except now they have absolutely no influence over the fiats coming from Westminster, and the EWNI government will suffer no electoral penalty for really turning the screws north of the border.

Given that the SNP is demanding they remain part of the EU, remain part of NATO, retain the British monarch, retain the pound sterling, continue to take orders from Westminster regarding fiscal policy, I wonder how they imagine this to be independence?


I just find Scots whining about not having enough devolution laughable when England has none whatsoever and all 3 other constituents do. I am not talking of an English assembly but greater distribution of power and wealth across England.


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Original post by Midlander
Then why, even with geographical shares of oil, does the Scottish Government have itself losing billions of pounds a year? Scotland receives more in public spending than it contributes.


Ah, but the North Sea Oil, dontchaknow? :wink:

Most cybernats don't seem to realise that this accounts for about £5 billion of tax revenue, about 1% of British government revenue. And even in an independent Scotland, probably only about 10%.

It's certainly not going to pay for all the election bribes (I mean, ahem... £600 "Indy Bonuses") and cuts in corporation tax Salmond has promised. But I suppose it matters nought, in a currency union Westminster won't permit Salmond to be so reckless with Scotland's money.
Original post by Midlander
I just find Scots whining about not having enough devolution laughable when England has none whatsoever and all 3 other constituents do. I am not talking of an English assembly but greater distribution of power and wealth across England.


I personally don't mind them asking for further devolution of powers, and retaining the current arrangements where the Westminster parliament acts as the Parliament of England and the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

What I do object to are the Scottish Nationalists trying to pull a fast one with the Scots people, and telling them that they can just pluck all the good things that the currently get in the union, and keep them in a state of independence. It's just a fantasy, and the Scots people deserve to make a decision based on facts, not on SNP lies and delusions.
Original post by Libertatem

£27 billion oil revenue from North Sea Oil (Scottish) in 2011-12


More like £6 billion, mate.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Img/352173/0104217.gif

Why do cybernats have delusions and hallucinations when it comes to North Sea Oil revenue?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by MostUncivilised
Infested? You have a raging case of xenophobia. So typical for a nationalist. it's like having a conversation with someone who has stepped out of a time machine from the 1930s.



Yes, because anecdotal evidence is the best kind of evidence :h:


Anecdotal evidence was the only evidence that the SNP would win in a landslide in the last Scottish Election.

Xenophobia? Is that the fear of being governed by those from a different country and with the interests of another country in their heart? If so, then, please, please, please, please PLEASE keep using that phrase for it is exactly correct.
Original post by Libertatem
It's in the best interest for both Scotland and rUK for a currency union dictated as it currently is.



The Barnett formula accounts for oil revenue which Scotland brings in.

£27 billion oil revenue from North Sea Oil (Scottish) in 2011-12

And before you say the extra £2k spending is fair, when the oil is taken into account, think about this: the amount of oil income / scottish population, which is correct as the oil should be ours and only ours.

Expenditure per head in Scotland should be much higher and would be much higher if all oil was utilised by the Scottish government.


Why should the oil be the people of Glasgow's but not, say, the people of East Anglia's?
Original post by MostUncivilised
More like £6 billion, mate.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Img/352173/0104217.gif

Why do cybernats have delusions and hallucinations when it comes to North Sea Oil revenue?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24866266

"There are wide-ranging figures on the North Sea gas and oil industry. UK oil revenue has ranged from £1.5bn in 1991-92 to £27bn in 2011-12."

As I said the UK revenue from SCOTTISH OIL was £27bn in 2011-12. Have a good day, mate.
Original post by Smack
Why should the oil be the people of Glasgow's but not, say, the people of East Anglia's?


Because the oil is in Scotland.
Have to go out just now but shall reply in due course.
Original post by Libertatem
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24866266

"There are wide-ranging figures on the North Sea gas and oil industry. UK oil revenue has ranged from £1.5bn in 1991-92 to £27bn in 2011-12."

As I said the UK revenue from SCOTTISH OIL was £27bn in 2011-12. Have a good day, mate.


You do know that the gross oil revenue you appear to be talking about goes to the oil companies, don't you? The tax revenue, that MostUncivilised is talking about, which is rather more relevant, is what accrues to the government and can be spent for the public good.
Original post by Libertatem
Because the oil is in Scotland.


It's off the east coast of Scotland, and also England.

Why should Glasgow benefit from oil off the coast of the north east and Shetland, but Norwich not benefit from oil off the coast of East Anglia?
Original post by Libertatem
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24866266

"There are wide-ranging figures on the North Sea gas and oil industry. UK oil revenue has ranged from £1.5bn in 1991-92 to £27bn in 2011-12."

As I said the UK revenue from SCOTTISH OIL was £27bn in 2011-12. Have a good day, mate.


:hahaha: You're confusing revenue of the oil industry with government revenue. This isn't unusual for cybernats, to be utterly confused when it comes to basic and elementary economic precepts that even a schoolchild can understand.

You do realise that the oil "revenue" of oil companies doesn't go straight into government coffers, that only a proportion makes it into HMG revenue? And if you did realise that, then you now accept that you were hopelessly confused to mention the Barnett formula (a formula for calculating central government spending) in the same context as private oil industry revenue?
Reply 6417
Original post by Libertatem
It's in the best interest for both Scotland and rUK for a currency union dictated as it currently is.



Ahh this old chestnut. Textbook.

I can see how it would be in Scotlands interest, but could you please explain how it would be in the interests of the rUK to underwrite a massive petro-economy with an inflated banking sector when it has no control over that countries Government spending?

If you say 'transaction fees' I'm going to laugh at you.
Original post by CFL2013

I can see how it would be in Scotlands interest, but could you please explain how it would be in the interests of the rUK to underwrite a massive petro-economy with an inflated banking sector when it has no control over that countries Government spending?


You have put your finger on the fundamental issue there. Westminster will not enter a currency union with an independent Scotland without being able to enforce a set of guidelines on its fiscal policy. You can, for example, completely discount the possibility that HM Treasury will consent to a currency union but at the same time allow the Scots to undercut us with a lower rate of corporation tax.

More likely is that if the Scots get a currency union, it will involve Westminster having a high level of control over Scottish economic and fiscal policy. Which begs the question, is that really independence?

If you say 'transaction fees' I'm going to laugh at you.


In fact, traders in the City of London will make a packet buying and selling (and probably shorting) the new Scottish poond. All those fat bonuses and profits (well, 45% of them) will pour into HM Treasury.
Original post by MostUncivilised
:hahaha: You're confusing revenue of the oil industry with government revenue. This isn't unusual for cybernats, to be utterly confused when it comes to basic and elementary economic precepts that even a schoolchild can understand.

You do realise that the oil "revenue" of oil companies doesn't go straight into government coffers, that only a proportion makes it into HMG revenue? And if you did realise that, then you now accept that you were hopelessly confused to mention the Barnett formula (a formula for calculating central government spending) in the same context as private oil industry revenue?


I think his figures include all tax revenues gained from oil related firms, whereas the £6 billion figure includes only tax revenue paid on oil production.

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