This discussion is now closed.

Check out other Related discussions

Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?

No. All three Westminster party leaders have nailed their colours very firmly to the no currency union mast. Any retreat from that position will be a complete humiliation, both personally and in the eyes of the electorate. If any of them change their mind, especially after emphasising the independent and informed treasury advice they received, they will be going against the obvious wishes of British voters (who are increasingly and solidly against currency union with iScotland) and will reduce their own credibility enormously.

In short, they have played a card which they cannot retract, even if they would wish to. Scots who believe otherwise are fools.

I think you are missing the point here.

This campaign is about winning. You can be on the YES side or the NO and denounce the other, because both will be liberal with the truth at points.

My question was 'can you see why they are sticking to plan A?'.

I can, and you know as well as I, that there is a plan B,C,D, but, the more Better Together bring it up, the more votes they lose imho.

Reply 7141

Boab

Original post by honeywhite

Because there IS no plan B! Not even up Salmond's fat arse so he can't even pull one out of there.

sure, sure :rolleyes:

Reply 7142

Good bloke

19

Original post by Boab

I think you are missing the point here.

This campaign is about winning. You can be on the YES side or the NO and denounce the other, because both will be liberal with the truth at points.

My question was 'can you see why they are sticking to plan A?'.

I can, and you know as well as I, that there is a plan B,C,D, but, the more Better Together bring it up, the more votes they lose imho.

You don't seem to have a very high opinion of your fellow Scots. Changing to be pro-independence on the basis that you can't see the obvious and while believing only that the UK might change its mind on a currency union is just plain stupid.

Reply 7143

Boab

Original post by Good bloke

You don't seem to have a very high opinion of your fellow Scots. Changing to be pro-independence on the basis that you can't see the obvious and while believing only that the UK might change its mind on a currency union is just plain stupid.

Its not a comment on my fellow Scots, you were the one labelling them fools, and now stupid.

People's opinions are swayed by rhetoric, and Better Together took a position on Currency thinking it would sway people to their side, when in fact it has done the opposite as some Scots believe they are lying and trying to bully their way to a NO vote.

That isn't me saying this, that is what HAS happened.

You can label me plain stupid if you like, but I know I'm not. If Scotland becomes Independent and the rUK honestly takes the position that they don't want a currency union, so be it, plan B may well have to do (and it does exist) but for now this is simply political posturing.

Reply 7144

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by Boab

very good

meantime, thought I'd post this as it appears relevant to the main argument about currency recently......

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4046238.ece

You see why YES are sticking to plan A yet?

They believe he's bluffing because the YeSNP campaign don't have an alternative. Their entire policy seems to be based on wishful thinking.

Sadly, they're ignoring reality.

Reply 7145

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by Boab

Its not a comment on my fellow Scots, you were the one labelling them fools, and now stupid.

People's opinions are swayed by rhetoric, and Better Together took a position on Currency thinking it would sway people to their side, when in fact it has done the opposite as some Scots believe they are lying and trying to bully their way to a NO vote.

That isn't me saying this, that is what HAS happened.

You can label me plain stupid if you like, but I know I'm not. If Scotland becomes Independent and the rUK honestly takes the position that they don't want a currency union, so be it, plan B may well have to do (and it does exist) but for now this is simply political posturing.

Swayed? A few percentage points maybe, but not a big enough shift. And a shift by those driven by emotional rhetoric rather than hard analysis of the situation.

Salmond has assumed that 65 million people will just carry on acting as lender if last resort without bothering to ask them and keeping very quiet about the fact that he knows without a currency union we've lost out financial sector which in many ways is significantly more important than oil.

Lets look at it for the rUKs perspective. Oil revenue lost. Financial sector gain. Pretty much no change for them.

SNP approach. Dwindling oil revenues and no financial sector equals net gain. Stick fingers in ears and pretend the problem goes away.

There's been more than enough reporting in the news recently of rather large and rather significant revenue generators in Scotland setting up shop outside of Scotland to minimise the risk. If their revenues are being processed down south then that's where the tax is paid.

Reply 7146

Boab

Original post by MatureStudent36

They believe he's bluffing because the YeSNP campaign don't have an alternative. Their entire policy seems to be based on wishful thinking.

Sadly, they're ignoring reality.

You're just a broken record man. Its been stated on here multiple times, and there is government published evidence of what plan B etc is, but that doesn't fit into your agenda, so, blah blah blah

Reply 7147

Boab

Original post by MatureStudent36

Swayed? A few percentage points maybe, but not a big enough shift. And a shift by those driven by emotional rhetoric rather than hard analysis of the situation.

YES

A few points here, a few points there is how we win!
Crack on with your biased hard analysis though, see how many votes that sways your way :rolleyes:

Reply 7148

Midlander

19

Original post by Boab

You're just a broken record man. Its been stated on here multiple times, and there is government published evidence of what plan B etc is, but that doesn't fit into your agenda, so, blah blah blah

If that is the case why can't Salmond and Sturgeon just state what it is when asked?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 7149

Boab

Original post by Midlander

If that is the case why can't Salmond and Sturgeon just state what it is when asked?

Posted from TSR Mobile

I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall here. I have answered this, many times already.

Sticking with Plan A, wins votes.
Surrendering to rUK threats loses votes.

Its very simple.

Reply 7150

CFL2013

Original post by Boab

I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall here. I have answered this, many times already.

Sticking with Plan A, wins votes.
Surrendering to rUK threats loses votes.

Its very simple.

So, essentially, the plan is to lie?

Reply 7151

Boab

Original post by CFL2013

So, essentially, the plan is to lie?

How is sticking with plan A lying? It is what they want to do.

But if you don't think either side is going to be economical with the truth, you are simply deluding yourself!

Reply 7152

CFL2013

Original post by Boab

How is sticking with plan A lying? It is what they want to do.

But if you don't think either side is going to be economical with the truth, you are simply deluding yourself!

Well, insisting 'Plan A' is happening when you know very well it isn't so as not to lose votes sounds very much like lying to me. Perhaps you see it differently?

Reply 7153

Ridingmyego

10

Original post by emmarussell55

Scotland has to become independent for the sake of is own economy! The measly 54 MPs elected from scotland will never make a difference in who gets in power considering from London and down further in the south east have 129 MPs! We are getting NO say in the way or economy is run cause our votes don't matter to the public school boys in downing st. The Tories are going to pass more and more legislation allowing the rich to get richer and poor to get poorer, even though its the multimillionaire bankers who caused this mess, not labour! Not to mention trying to convince us to get out of the EU and lose the best political and financial safety net in the world! Also, us Scots get given too much from Westminster? Do we hell! We put in more than we get back! Scotland will come out better in 2014, then we'll see how England, Wales and Northern Ireland do with a permanent Tory government that do not care about 90% of the population.
From here we can only go up ALBA GU BRATH!!!!!!

This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Westminister gives 33 Billion a year to the scottish parliament. I've often heard the response that Scotland has been given more back to England, but I would like to ask if you have statistics which I could verify this please?

Reply 7154

Boab

Original post by CFL2013

Well, insisting 'Plan A' is happening when you know very well it isn't so as not to lose votes sounds very much like lying to me. Perhaps you see it differently?

They don't KNOW that! They have been told by a politically motivated group of people, something they don't believe.

Only time will tell.

Reply 7155

CFL2013

Original post by Boab

They don't KNOW that! They have been told by a politically motivated group of people, something they don't believe.

Only time will tell.

So you honestly think that, should Scotland get independence, everyone will do a 180 and say 'yeah we were just bluffing, course we can share!"

Do you not think that's maybe a little naive? Would you not be voting on false pretenses?

Reply 7156

Boab

Original post by CFL2013

So you honestly think that, should Scotland get independence, everyone will do a 180 and say 'yeah we were just bluffing, course we can share!"

Do you not think that's maybe a little naive? Would you not be voting on false pretenses?

No. I believe they are lying. If they are not, so be it, a currency union isn't my greatest concern anyway.

Reply 7157

CFL2013

Original post by Boab

No. I believe they are lying. If they are not, so be it, a currency union isn't my greatest concern anyway.

Why do you think they are lying? It would not be in the rUKs interest at all to enter a currency union with an independent government. The basic economics show this quite clearly.

I'm not having a go, but if you aren't that concerned about the economics why don't you just admit that and stop embarrassing yourselves over it (by you I mean the YES campaign as a whole, not you personally!)?

I actually think YES would be in a much stronger position if they just admitted it and accepted it as a price worth paying for independence. They would be far more credible anyway.

Reply 7158

TheBugle

2

LORD Steel of Aikwood has called on those backing the Union to run a *positive referendum campaign as he revealed he had warned Sir John Major not to come to Scotland "just to bash the Nats".

The ex-Liberal leader said he had told the former Prime Minister that a visit to extol the glories of the Union would be "very welcome".
However, he warned him not to campaign in Scotland if he planned to make a negative case.
Lord Steel, who served as *Holyrood's first presiding officer, disclosed his words of advice during a debate on Scottish independence at St Columba's Church in central London.
Lord Steel said Sir John had asked him in recent days whether he should come to Scotland, as he has been asked to, to intervene in the referendum.
He said: "I said, 'Well, it is entirely a question of how you approach it. If you come north of the Border just to bash the Nats, that will be no good at all. If you come north of the Border as a former Prime Minister to talk about the glories of the Union and the contribution that Scotland has made to the Union historically and at present then that would be very welcome.'"
To a round of applause, he added: "I think that has got to be the tone of the campaign from now on, to talk about the contribution that Scotland has made and is making."
There is no suggestion the former Tory leader planned to do anything other than make a positive case.
Lord Steel's remarks come as the Coalition gears up for a new positive phase of the referendum campaign, as revealed by The Herald last week, which sources say will include an "injection of love" for Scotland.
The SNP have long accused the pro-Union parties of running overly negative arguments, criticising what they say is a Project Fear approach.
The Yes campaign received a boost yesterday as a poll showed support for Scotland breaking away from the rest of the UK had risen by four points in three months, to 42%, with 58% opposed after don't-knows were removed.
The findings also suggest Scots are increasingly sceptical about the suggestion that independence would leave their country as an economic basket case, despite Westminster's warnings over currency and interest rates.
Michelle Thomson, from Yes campaigners Business for Scotland, told the same London audience this week the arguments from the pro-Union campaign had been relentlessly negative.
She said: "I have yet to find anybody from the No campaign who can articulate a positive vision for the Union going forward. I hear what has been and I don't hear anything of what can be. This goes right to the heart of the debate; setting out what is the case for the people of Scotland, bearing in mind that change is necessary, change happens."
She received applause when she said that those campaigning for a Yes vote had set out a vision that was "forward and out, not inwards and back".
Last night a Better Together *spokesman said: "Poll after poll shows people in the rest of the UK don't want Scotland to leave. Next month Eddie Izzard will be launching our Scotland, Please Don't Go campaign which will allow people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland to talk about the many positive reasons there are for keeping the UK together."
A Yes Scotland spokesman said: "The problem for the No campaign is that both its tone and content have been unremittingly negative, with no positive case to make. The UK is one of the most unequal countries in the developed world, with ridiculous decisions made at Westminster such as dumping a new generation of unwanted nuclear weapons in Scotland.
"The gap between Yes and No has halved since November, with new supporters for Yes such as former LibDem chief executive Andy Myles, and Lord Steel's comments indicate the concern clearly running through the ranks of the anti-independence campaign."