Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Choo.choo
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#9961
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#9961
(Original post by Boab)
Good news... The total wealth of the richest 1,000 individuals, couples or families in Britain has jumped 15% in a year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27459621
Watch this video. Brilliant video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj2LA8rEqQ4
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Reformed2010
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#9962
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#9962
(Original post by Boab)
Your continued optimism is funny.

Latest Sunday Times poll disagrees.

44% of people born in Scotland say YES
42% of people born in Scotland say NO

I trust you will now consider Scots wanting to stay in the Union as the minority

http://www.panelbase.com/media/polls...imestables.pdf
You explained why you're happy to have laws passed in Brussels by Conservatives yet? why is Angela Merkel, Barroso and Herman Van Rompuy better? what happens when Scotland votes SNP and Labour but end up with Conservatives governing the EU?
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L i b
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#9963
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#9963
(Original post by E-wan)
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Actually S&P said that without a currency union Scotland would struggle to keep its AAA rating. There will of course be a currency union after a Yes vote despite its orchestrated rejection as part of "project fear". But in the unlikely event that there wasn't , then as the Daily Telegraph pointed out last month, the rest of the UK would lose its rating as a result of the increased debt burden it would then inherit.
Well, hold on just a second here, debt has nothing to do with currency unions. I also find it rather cute that we've got to the stage of the debate where, when it's made clear in completely irreversible terms that something won't happen, the only retort is to say that everyone's lying and that their arguments are entirely made up.

It put an independent Scotland in an investment grade category, which meant it could get anything around BBB- or above.

S&P dismissed concerns that Scotland would be overdependent on North Sea oil, which it said accounted for 16% of GDP, well below the 25% mark it sets for sectors to rank as dominant.
The problem has never been economic dependence on oil, but rather revenue dependence. They are two very different things, and S&P only considered one.

The proportion of taxes from the North Sea is comfortably beyond 20% in some years - but they are also more volatile than the oil industry generally. Hence the £4.4bn revenue drop this year.
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L i b
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#9964
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#9964
(Original post by Reformed2010)
You explained why you're happy to have laws passed in Brussels by Conservatives yet? why is Angela Merkel, Barroso and Herman Van Rompuy better?
It's definitely a peculiar one. If you accept the principles of the Yes Scotland "Yes Declaration" then it is impossible to support the European Union. This rather glaring peculiarity in nationalist thought seems to have passed them by...

The problem is that it isn't about sovereignty or who is best placed to govern, it's certain people who have invested their personal pride and dignity in this fictional concept that nations are somehow special entities, creating some sort of collective consciousness among the people resident within their borders. Therefore, their status must be elevated at all costs: not for some philosophical or moral reason, but simply to make the nationalist in question feel adequate.

Scottish nationalism is simply one manifestation of an ideology which has existed now for centuries. There's no point in attacking Scottish nationalism alone: it's nationalism generally that's at fault.
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Reformed2010
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#9965
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#9965
(Original post by L i b)
It's definitely a peculiar one. If you accept the principles of the Yes Scotland "Yes Declaration" then it is impossible to support the European Union. This rather glaring peculiarity in nationalist thought seems to have passed them by...

The problem is that it isn't about sovereignty or who is best placed to govern, it's certain people who have invested their personal pride and dignity in this fictional concept that nations are somehow special entities, creating some sort of collective consciousness among the people resident within their borders. Therefore, their status must be elevated at all costs: not for some philosophical or moral reason, but simply to make the nationalist in question feel adequate.

Scottish nationalism is simply one manifestation of an ideology which has existed now for centuries. There's no point in attacking Scottish nationalism alone: it's nationalism generally that's at fault.
Agree completely. I truly believe most Yes voters have been caught up in this so emotionally they genuinely do not realise their same issues with politicians in London, UK are applicable to the Brussels, EU.
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Boab
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#9966
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#9966
(Original post by Reformed2010)
You explained why you're happy to have laws passed in Brussels by Conservatives yet? why is Angela Merkel, Barroso and Herman Van Rompuy better? what happens when Scotland votes SNP and Labour but end up with Conservatives governing the EU?
What has that got to do with this...


(Original post by Boab)
Your continued optimism is funny.

Latest Sunday Times poll disagrees.

44% of people born in Scotland say YES
42% of people born in Scotland say NO

I trust you will now consider Scots wanting to stay in the Union as the minority

http://www.panelbase.com/media/polls...imestables.pdf

:rolleyes:

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Boab
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#9967
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#9967
(Original post by L i b)
Scottish nationalism is simply one manifestation of an ideology which has existed now for centuries. There's no point in attacking Scottish nationalism alone: it's nationalism generally that's at fault.
I agree - let us rid ourselves of British Nationalism and dismantle the Union!
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L i b
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#9968
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#9968
(Original post by Boab)
I agree - let us rid ourselves of British Nationalism and dismantle the Union!
A silly remark, I fear. Would a rejection of European nationalism lead us to dismantling the EU? No. In my rejection of Scottish nationalism am I calling for the dismantling of the Scottish Parliament? No. I am asking people to remove a terrible ideology from their heads and to work together in an appropriate and outward-looking way.

(Original post by Boab)
:rolleyes:

Of course... the YES voters are brainwashed and NO voters are rational.
It is an irrational argument.

However to suggest all 'yes' voters somehow want to remain in the EU is simply false - the majority of SNP voters support a referendum on it in the last poll I saw which compared the two, and a solid number want to withdraw.

While that is, I think, a poor choice, it is at least a consistent one. Moreover, it's one that doesn't require ridiculous rhetorical flights of fancy to justify. A bit like your previous suggestion that only people who are born in Scotland are Scots - I think it's entirely, unutterably wrong - but you can rationally and consistently argue it.
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Boab
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#9969
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#9969
(Original post by L i b)
A silly remark
Only as silly as Unionists comparing the SNP to UKIP, and not half as silly as your recent outbursts declaring people racists!
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Boab
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#9970
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#9970
(Original post by L i b)
While that is, I think, a poor choice, it is at least a consistent one. Moreover, it's one that doesn't require ridiculous rhetorical flights of fancy to justify. A bit like your previous suggestion that only people who are born in Scotland are Scots - I think it's entirely, unutterably wrong - but you can rationally and consistently argue it.
I hardly suggested it, did I?

I countered another of MS's views that the majority of Scots would vote NO.

How do we define Scots? Fairly tricky, but using a poll which gathered the data of people only born in Scotland is a fairly decent (if not conclusive) way of excluding the views of non-Scots in Scotland. Otherwise they wouldn't have asked the question!

Can you be Scottish without being born in Scotland? Of course.

The majority of those that had made up their mind, support YES.
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Jarred
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#9971
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#9971
This thread has reached 10000 posts and so we must say goodbye </3 But don't worry, the discussion lives on in a Mk II thread that you can find by clicking here.
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