why bother with a referendum ?? why not just get out of the EU ?? Watch

democracyforum
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there's no point letting the public vote and deciding.


I think it is just better that politicians decide on our behalf and hopefully decide to get out of the EU
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Stramala
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So what you're saying is, you want the UK to extricate itself from the EU by doing the exact same thing that anti-EU voters complain Europe do to us? Making decisions above our head? Talk about hyocritical...
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democracyforum
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(Original post by Stramala)
So what you're saying is, you want the UK to extricate itself from the EU by doing the exact same thing that anti-EU voters complain Europe do to us? Making decisions above our head? Talk about hyocritical...
this isn't a problem of people making decisions over our heads

the problem is the EU itself
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Psyk
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(Original post by democracyforum)
there's no point letting the public vote and deciding.


I think it is just better that politicians decide on our behalf and hopefully decide to get out of the EU
Considering only one major party supports leaving the EU (and some would say UKIP don't even count as a major party), if the decision is left completely to the politicians then they're hardly going to decide to leave the EU.

But I agree that we shouldn't have an in-out referendum. And I say that because there's no way Parliament would choose to leave the EU, but the people might if they were given a referendum.
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GR3YFOXXX
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Username: democracy forum

Topic: Why bother with a referendum...

Oh the irony.
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democracyforum
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(Original post by GR3YFOXXX)
Username: democracy forum

Topic: Why bother with a referendum...

Oh the irony.
why does everything have to be voted on ??

And when did we vote to join the EU ??


and if I am wrong and the public once did actually vote to join it, this generation has not voted to join it
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Tamora
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(Original post by GR3YFOXXX)
Username: democracy forum

Topic: Why bother with a referendum...

Oh the irony.
Equally, why go in without bothering with a referendum?Why go deeper in without bothering with a referendum? Why accept mass immigration without bothering with a referendum? Indeed, why accept shedloads of common policies without bothering with a referendum?

For once, let's have a free and fair public debate, then everyone has the opportunity to make an informed choice about who governs us.
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Tamora
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(Original post by democracyforum)
why does everything have to be voted on ??

And when did we vote to join the EU ??


and if I am wrong and the public once did actually vote to join it, this generation has not voted to join it
The public never voted to join it. There was a vote on whether the UK we should stay in the Common Market, which involved no loss of sovereignty, or so the public was told.
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wibletg
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(Original post by Tamora)
Equally, why go in without bothering with a referendum?Why go deeper in without bothering with a referendum? Why accept mass immigration without bothering with a referendum? Indeed, why accept shedloads of common policies without bothering with a referendum?

For once, let's have a free and fair public debate, then everyone has the opportunity to make an informed choice about who governs us.
Yes, that's going to happen, with our politicians who've constantly pulled the wool over our eyes

Cameron and Clegg made references to holding a referendum before the last general election - have we seen one? no
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Arbolus
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(Original post by democracyforum)
why does everything have to be voted on ??

And when did we vote to join the EU ??


and if I am wrong and the public once did actually vote to join it, this generation has not voted to join it
When we joined there was no need for a referendum, because nearly everyone agreed that the EU of the time was generally a good thing.

Now there's a lot more controversy, but public opinion is by no means unanimously in favour of leaving. The EU has its pros and cons, and everyone has different opinions on whether the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa, so to simply decide to leave without putting it to a referendum would be just as wrong as deciding to fully integrate into a European superstate, again without a referendum.
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Aj12
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(Original post by democracyforum)
there's no point letting the public vote and deciding.


I think it is just better that politicians decide on our behalf and hopefully decide to get out of the EU
Most politicians don't want to leave the EU
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Mister Cery
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You're right there shouldn't be a referendum, most people are clueless and there's too much at stake - quite simple we MUST stay IN the E. U. The only people who say otherwise are the moronic Ukip. Maybe you should start reading intelligent papers such as The Guardian and The Economist instead of listening to Nigel farage.

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Morgsie
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Uni-lateral withdrawal, hmm. There is an exit clause that require European Council to negotiate with the consent of the European Parliament. Article 50 Treaty of the European Union t
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Howard
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(Original post by democracyforum)
there's no point letting the public vote and deciding.


I think it is just better that politicians decide on our behalf and hopefully decide to get out of the EU
There won't be a referendum on this issue.
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Howard
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(Original post by Morgsie)
Uni-lateral withdrawal, hmm. There is an exit clause that require European Council to negotiate with the consent of the European Parliament. Article 50 Treaty of the European Union t
Yes, but you could always say "stick Article 50 where the sun don't shine" What are they going to do about it?
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Howard
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(Original post by Mister Cery)
You're right there shouldn't be a referendum, most people are clueless and there's too much at stake - quite simple we MUST stay IN the E. U. The only people who say otherwise are the moronic Ukip. Maybe you should start reading intelligent papers such as The Guardian and The Economist instead of listening to Nigel farage.

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Really? You don't seem to have an undertanding of the public pulse on this issue. According to this "56% of people would probably or definitely vote for the UK to go it alone if they were offered the choice in a referendum"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...eferendum-poll

And according to this "Nearly half of Britons would vote in a referendum to leave the European Union and less than a third to stay in....."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/1...8A711F20121108

So obviously, this isn't the preserve of the "moronic UKIP"
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james22
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(Original post by Psyk)
Considering only one major party supports leaving the EU (and some would say UKIP don't even count as a major party), if the decision is left completely to the politicians then they're hardly going to decide to leave the EU.

But I agree that we shouldn't have an in-out referendum. And I say that because there's no way Parliament would choose to leave the EU, but the people might if they were given a referendum.
How can UKIP possbily be a major party? The Green party are more major than them by number of seats (which is all that actually counts for anything).
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Psyk
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(Original post by james22)
How can UKIP possbily be a major party? The Green party are more major than them by number of seats (which is all that actually counts for anything).
Well it depends how you measure it. By overall number of supporters, UKIP are more significant than the Green party. But you're right that in the end that's meaningless if their support isn't concentrated enough to get into Parliament. So I was just acknowledging that there are different ways you can define a "major" party.
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Mister Cery
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(Original post by Howard)
Really? You don't seem to have an undertanding of the public pulse on this issue. According to this "56% of people would probably or definitely vote for the UK to go it alone if they were offered the choice in a referendum"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...eferendum-poll

And according to this "Nearly half of Britons would vote in a referendum to leave the European Union and less than a third to stay in....."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/1...8A711F20121108

So obviously, this isn't the preserve of the "moronic UKIP"
Well if you read what I said properly I said they shouldn't do a referendum because the public are generally stupid, as shown by the NO vote to AV a couple of years ago.
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i.am.lost
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You have Cleisthenes of Athens to thank for that.
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