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    (Original post by Dude)
    WHAT BENEFITS. Tony Blair spends more on Asylum Seekers than us.
    Are you being serious
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    And what about female asylum seekers and those who are very young? It's a tricky one.
    I think raising the Q is wrong.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    I think raising the Q is wrong.
    Why?
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Why?
    Because its silly to force people to do things that you wouldn't otherwise do yourself. Why should british people force asylum seekers to fight if most of us wouldn't do it ourselves.

    It also stereotype asylum seekers as people who don't give one about anything.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    It also stereotype asylum seekers as people who don't give one about anything.
    But most Asylum Seekers say they come here to live a new life, but then spend the rest of that life just living off the governments checks.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    Because its silly to force people to do things that you wouldn't otherwise do yourself. Why should british people force asylum seekers to fight if most of us wouldn't do it ourselves.

    It also stereotype asylum seekers as people who don't give one about anything.
    I agree, asylum seekers should not be forced to do anything extra to what british citizens do, but they shouldn't receive any extras either.
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    (Original post by Dude)
    But most Asylum Seekers say they come here to live a new life, but then spend the rest of that life just living off the governments checks.
    No they don't. Nobody likes living off benefits. Many asylum seekers and immigrants tend to have a high work ethic.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    No they don't. Nobody likes living off benefits. Many asylum seekers and immigrants tend to have a high work ethic.
    Unfortunately asylum seekers do have to live (though not necessarily like) off benefits

    Despite the best intentions many asylum seekers may well have the simple fact is that many are woefully uneducated and unable to speak even basic English. A person is very limited in what they can do to improve their lot without speaking the native language and having skills to offer.

    If you don't believe me try it; give up your educationl, become a plasterer's mate for a year, and then travel to a country who's language you don't speak and try and make a life there. Let me know when you've made your first million or starved to death (whichever comes first)

    Contrary to what we are told to believe, most asylum seekers are not medical graduates with four languages at their disposal. We need to be honest and ask ourselves what sort of person an asylum seeker is? Basically, and I hate to be blunt about this, they are the people who's home country doesn't want them, political undersirables from Iran, gypsies from Bosnia etc.

    Britain is not attracting the "brightest and best" by encouraging asylum seekers and it's a load of *******s to say these people are necessary "to fill our skills gap" and ensure our pensions get paid.
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    There are some asylum seekers who are trained and well educated and some not, but many do make a good contribution to the UK. We have a shortgae of workers in some sectors. Many do the jobs that we don't want or like to do, and a paid very low wages and given long, hard hours to work.

    We should thank them for keeping the economy going as strong as it is.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    There are some asylum seekers who are trained and well educated and some not, but many do make a good contribution to the UK. We have a shortgae of workers in some sectors. Many do the jobs that we don't want or like to do, and a paid very low wages and given long, hard hours to work.

    We should thank them for keeping the economy going as strong as it is.
    But we should still have a limit on how many come in here. If you ask me, Austraillia have the right idea. No-one is allowed to live in the country and get a job unless you have at least something like £200.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    There are some asylum seekers who are trained and well educated and some not, but many do make a good contribution to the UK. We have a shortgae of workers in some sectors. Many do the jobs that we don't want or like to do, and a paid very low wages and given long, hard hours to work.

    We should thank them for keeping the economy going as strong as it is.
    Well, you need to take a walk around the seaside resort of Gt.Yarmouth. If you do you will notice large gangs of Kosovan asylum seekers with nothing to do other than hang around the front causing problems.

    They do not speak any English, they are not particularly well educated (but as they don't speak English their education in other areas is actually irrelevant), they are bored, they are housed in old hotels that were deemed unfit for human habitation and boarded up years ago, they are a long way from home in a country that is very alien to them. The local population don't want them (because they're causing a fall in house prices), or need them. They are not making any contribution at all.

    As for skills shortage, this is nonsense too. I have spent 15 years of my life working in construction project management all over the world. I suggest you go take a walk around almost any construction project in London and have a good look at exactly what a gang of Ukranian bricklayers is capable of. "**** all" to be perfectly blunt.

    We have millions of unemployed/underemployed folks in the UK that we can train to do these jobs (Good God, half our graduates have a tough time getting a decent job)

    Most asylum seekers are not well qualified. Well qualified people in any country tend to come from that country's affluent middle class (this is particularly true of places without a massive welfare apparatus that provides "education for all") and middle class people (apart from the occasional political activist) rarely become asylum seekers.

    A middle class person in Romania is extremely unlikely to even want to come to the UK as that person can do a lot better in his/her own country than they can in the UK. That's a fact.

    Asylum seekers are the poor folks who's own country don't want them. They are on the absolute lowest rung of their home countries society.

    We do not need these people. Japan's economy grew how many times since 1945? I hate to think. And their immigration rate? Ermmm.......about zero actually.

    We owe these people nothing. You can thank them if you want. I'm thanking nobody.

    And one final revelation. Most asylum seeekers are not asylum seekers at all. They are "economic refugees"

    My wife was a "political refugee" from Poland (before the collapse of communism), going first to Germany and later to the US. She ****in laughs her head off when she tells the story and recalls the gullibility of how she fooled the German and later US immigration authorities into believing she was "politically persecuted" for being anti-communist. She just wanted a better life. As a matter of fact I know tons of Poles who made it to the US under such dubious stories of torture and persecution.

    It's only the truly gullible that swallow the idea that asylum seekers are generally qualified, hardworking, upwardlymobile soon-to-be citizens that are here to fill job shortages and improve Britain's economy.

    Did you take a ride on the London underground recently? Did you see the women squatting in filth, baby in arms, begging for money? That my friend is an asylum seeker and that person, believe it or not, is not helping the economy.
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    Many asylum seekers have to beg because they can't go and get a job until their application has been heard. Its not their fault they have to wait ages. In the long term those begging will make a benefit to the economy.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    Many asylum seekers have to beg because they can't go and get a job until their application has been heard. Its not their fault they have to wait ages. In the long term those begging will make a benefit to the economy.
    They can't go and get a job regardless of their application being heard. "You no speaky english......you.no have jobby" Simple.

    Asylum seekers in the form of non-English speaking Romanian gipsies will never benefit the economy. These people earn a living by theft and begging in their home country (and if you don't believe me go and take a walk around the main train station in Bucharest and see how long it takes before your wallet vanishes) and will earn a living in exactly the same way in the UK.

    I'd also like to return to your earlier argument that "many do the jobs that we don't want or like to do, and a paid very low wages and given long, hard hours to work"

    Firstly, doesn't this strike you as being exploitative?

    And secondly, how exactly does driving down domestic wages help the economy and the existing citizens of the UK? We already have an entire generation for whom "mortgage" is just a pipe-dream (1000's of qualified graduates can't afford to leave home) Wouldn't wage reductions make that dream and similar dreams even more remote?
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    In my opinion, the reality of asylum seekers lies somwhere between the right-wing, daily mail, view of hordes of unwashed, unskilled criminals coming over here sponging off the state and the left-wing, high work ethic, select few only, good for the economy view...

    I think its dangerous to make sweeping statements as to what 'all' immigrants\asylum seekers\migrants are like, as they are in themselves all very different...

    There will undoubtedly be those that are attracted to this country with the prospect of better living conditions, state handouts etc and we probably do need tougher asylum laws and a more efficient system for dealing with asylum application, but to demonise these people as being everything thats wrong with our country today is a ridiculous over-reaction and is akin to the way Hitler scapegoated the jews for all of Germany's problems...

    Todays media is very selective about what it covers, for every 100 stories about how illegal immingrants are taking over our country, you wont find a single one mentioning anything positive that any immigrant has achieved in this country, because if we view them as useful they become one of 'us' and are no longer one of 'them', that supposed horde of useless foreign criminals waiting just across the channel, the ones i mentioned earlier...

    Good things have come of this country allowing immigration, its just we never get told about them...

    Im not saying for a moment that its not an issue, our government has some serious decisions to make, but we simply need to remain calm and not bow to the propagandist outpourings of the right wing press that would have us believe that a few immigrants are the greatest threat to this country since the Third Reich...
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    (Original post by Funky Phantom)
    In my opinion, the reality of asylum seekers lies somwhere between the right-wing, daily mail, view of hordes of unwashed, unskilled criminals coming over here sponging off the state and the left-wing, high work ethic, select few only, good for the economy view...

    I think its dangerous to make sweeping statements as to what 'all' immigrants\asylum seekers\migrants are like, as they are in themselves all very different...

    There will undoubtedly be those that are attracted to this country with the prospect of better living conditions, state handouts etc and we probably do need tougher asylum laws and a more efficient system for dealing with asylum application, but to demonise these people as being everything thats wrong with our country today is a ridiculous over-reaction and is akin to the way Hitler scapegoated the jews for all of Germany's problems...

    Todays media is very selective about what it covers, for every 100 stories about how illegal immingrants are taking over our country, you wont find a single one mentioning anything positive that any immigrant has achieved in this country, because if we view them as useful they become one of 'us' and are no longer one of 'them', that supposed horde of useless foreign criminals waiting just across the channel, the ones i mentioned earlier...

    Good things have come of this country allowing immigration, its just we never get told about them...

    Im not saying for a moment that its not an issue, our government has some serious decisions to make, but we simply need to remain calm and not bow to the propagandist outpourings of the right wing press that would have us believe that a few immigrants are the greatest threat to this country since the Third Reich...

    Of course some immigration is good for a country. Good God, I think we can all think of one very big, very powerful, country that was "built on immigration"

    But, from a social and economic standpoint we need the "right sort of immigrants"

    That means qualified, educated, folks that can jump in at the deep end, and make a contribution. These people are not typical of the asylum seekers profile, for the reasons I discussed earlier.

    There are different kinds of immigrants. This thread concerns just one kind; asylum seekers.
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    (Original post by Funky Phantom)
    In my opinion, the reality of asylum seekers lies somwhere between the right-wing, daily mail, view of hordes of unwashed, unskilled criminals coming over here sponging off the state and the left-wing, high work ethic, select few only, good for the economy view...

    I think its dangerous to make sweeping statements as to what 'all' immigrants\asylum seekers\migrants are like, as they are in themselves all very different...

    There will undoubtedly be those that are attracted to this country with the prospect of better living conditions, state handouts etc and we probably do need tougher asylum laws and a more efficient system for dealing with asylum application, but to demonise these people as being everything thats wrong with our country today is a ridiculous over-reaction and is akin to the way Hitler scapegoated the jews for all of Germany's problems...

    Todays media is very selective about what it covers, for every 100 stories about how illegal immingrants are taking over our country, you wont find a single one mentioning anything positive that any immigrant has achieved in this country, because if we view them as useful they become one of 'us' and are no longer one of 'them', that supposed horde of useless foreign criminals waiting just across the channel, the ones i mentioned earlier...

    Good things have come of this country allowing immigration, its just we never get told about them...

    Im not saying for a moment that its not an issue, our government has some serious decisions to make, but we simply need to remain calm and not bow to the propagandist outpourings of the right wing press that would have us believe that a few immigrants are the greatest threat to this country since the Third Reich...
    Asylum seekers and immigrants are different things.
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Asylum seekers and immigrants are different things.
    Asylum seekers are one type of immigrant.
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    What is your definition of 'asylum seeker'? (apologies if this has already been outlined)

    I personally take it to mean someone who is seeking asylum in this country on the basis of some sort of war or internal strife within their own own country. They are coming here because they are escaping from a warzone and a country in which their life is at risk. To turn people such as this away on the basis that they wont help our countries economy is inhumane. However i do accept that we cant take all of these people as they would eventually become too great a burden on our economy, but to turn as many as possible away for economic reasons would be incredibly irresponsible.

    I agree that from a social and economic standpoint, we do want to encourage the 'right' kind of migrants, as opposed to the 'wrong' kind (asylum seekers in my opinion do not count as the wrong kind as they do not simply come here to cheat the system and get rich off benefits, yet they may not by definition be the 'right' kind either as they will most likely have few marketable skills). But while doing this we must ensure that we dont classify asylum seekers who are fleeing persecution and death in their own country as the 'wrong' kind, which under your definition they may perhaps be.

    There is a balance, but i dont feel the government will get it right due to the great pressure from both left wing and right wing opinions and we'll simply end up with a messy compromise that leaves no-one happy and most of all, leaves this countries asylum policy in a worse state than it already is...
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    (Original post by Funky Phantom)
    What is your definition of 'asylum seeker'? (apologies if this has already been outlined)

    I personally take it to mean someone who is seeking asylum in this country on the basis of some sort of war or internal strife within their own own country. They are coming here because they are escaping from a warzone and a country in which their life is at risk. To turn people such as this away on the basis that they wont help our countries economy is inhumane. However i do accept that we cant take all of these people as they would eventually become too great a burden on our economy, but to turn as many as possible away for economic reasons would be incredibly irresponsible.

    I agree that from a social and economic standpoint, we do want to encourage the 'right' kind of migrants, as opposed to the 'wrong' kind (asylum seekers in my opinion do not count as the wrong kind as they do not simply come here to cheat the system and get rich off benefits, yet they may not by definition be the 'right' kind either as they will most likely have few marketable skills). But while doing this we must ensure that we dont classify asylum seekers who are fleeing persecution and death in their own country as the 'wrong' kind, which under your definition they may perhaps be.

    There is a balance, but i dont feel the government will get it right due to the great pressure from both left wing and right wing opinions and we'll simply end up with a messy compromise that leaves no-one happy and most of all, leaves this countries asylum policy in a worse state than it already is...
    As I said in my earlier post my own wife was an asylum seeker (or political refugee as she was termed) from Poland, travelling firstly to Germany, and then onto the US. She was about as persecuted as a turnip and laughs her head off when she recalls how easy it was to fool the authorities into believing that she was a brutalized fighter for freedom and democracy.

    She was nothing more than an "economic refugee" wanting a better life and you really should not underestimate the vast numbers of asylum seekers doing the same thing she did. That's not to say ALL, but is to say MANY.

    They travel to the UK and other countries like it in the hope of improving their lot. Hell, I don't blame them. I'd do the same. But a lot of this "persecution" is really pure baloney. I know first-hand tons of people in the US who came as political refugees and now quite happily admit that it was all made-up ********.
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    Having read the posts on this thread I am really appalled by some of the opinions, I have read someone saying that "those asylum seekers that commit crime: which is the majority of them" this is just untrue the number of Asylem seekers in this country who commit crimes are in the minority. I also read someone talking about a women and a baby begging on the london underground, I don't know about you but for my that inspires pity not hate surely we should be helping her not sending her back to her country of origin.
    The reason that so many asylum seekers are living off benifits is not through choice is it because they are unable to work until their application is processed which is surely a fault of the system rather than the people themselves. I think many people in this country forget this when reading the screaming daily mail headlines these aslum seekers are people many of them are feeling persecution in their home country.
    I have read the so called economic arguments for reducing the number of asylem seekers in this country and I would like to put the other side.

    1) Second generation asylem seekers contribute more back to the british economy than the british economy put into housing their parents.

    2) We are living in a country with a falling birth rate and a rising life expectancy our population is getting older and more and more people are having to be supported by the state pensions. The fact of the matter is when our parents generation start to retire there is going to be a pensions crisis. By allowing more people to enter the country and more than that allowing them to work and pay taxes we alleviate the strain that pensions are already starting to place on the economy.

    3) In the Uk at the moment we have a high level of university graduates which is fine but there are shortages is people who are willing to take the lower skilled jobs that are available are not being taken up these jobs could be filled by immigrants who could contribute to the economy.

    4) Do you realise that when the Jews were trying to escape nazi Germany the Daily mail and other right wing parties were still denying that they were genuine asylem seekers. People today are still being persecuted and we should be working to try and help these people not refuse them entry to our country where they can be safe from persecution.

    In my view the pros of having asylum seekers out weigh the costs and in total they actually add £7 billion to the economy so how can that be a bad thing?
 
 
 
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