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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    But the US is populated almost entirely by immigrants. How is someone who moved there 200 years ago different to someone who moves there now?
    Oh come off it Pig!

    I moved to the US 3 years ago and it's pretty obvious that I'm not American and even if I take citizenship one day will never be as American as the guy next door who was born and raised here, who's family came her in 1804, whose great grandaddy fought at Vicksburg etc etc!!

    It's a heritage thing. I'll personally never have American heritage, history and common experience will I?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Oh come off it Pig!

    I moved to the US 3 years ago and it's pretty obvious that I'm not American and even if I take citizenship one day will never be as American as the guy next door who was born and raised here, who's family came her in 1804, whose great grandaddy fought at Vicksburg etc etc!!

    It's a heritage thing. I'll personally never have American heritage, history and common experience will I?
    Ahhh, so you are saying that being "American" is all about heritage? That would raise similar questions about being "British"
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    (Original post by 2776)
    Ahhh, so you are saying that being "American" is all about heritage? That would raise similar questions about being "British"
    True. But I've lived in England since the day I was born, yet I still ahve to think whether to say "I'm English" or "Half Iranian or half english" or "Iranian". Howard does have a point.
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    (Original post by bono)
    True. But I've lived in England since the day I was born, yet I still ahve to think whether to say "I'm English" or "Half Iranian or half english" or "Iranian". Howard does have a point.
    You can say what ever you want, but it all boils down to some basic things.

    Legality: Your passport
    Ethinically: Your historic place of residence

    Of course Howard has a point. And my point was not valid?

    What was my point? Was it not to augment his argument?
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    I didn't think it was about national identity, rather more about who has the right to live in a certain country. I was arguing that since most people in America are immigrants, how can they turn round and say we don't want any more immigrants? They are just discriminating based on how long someone's family has lived in a certain place. Which is nonsense.
    The Americans, I believe are not worried about immirgants as such, rather people who come to the country without putting something back into the country. They would be perfectly happy with a immigrant professor coming to the country, and earning his keep.
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    [QUOTE=piginapoke]I meant the people that move there now are no different to the actual people who moved there 200 years ago, not their descendants. Seems a bit odd for a country with such a history, to be unwelcoming to immigrants. Remember my comment was in response to someone saying the US could no longer handle immigrants:

    Oh. I see what you mean the. Sorry, I wasn't following the thread but just charged in like a Bull in a china shop as normal. However, I think you need to bear in mind that although the US was obviously built on immigration the need for immigration can't be the same today as it was in 1840 for instance when they needed 1000's and 1000's of folks to build the railroads.

    America has 1million illegals entering the country each year. No country can provide homes, jobs, education, etc for that type of onslaught.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    Ahhh, so you are saying that being "American" is all about heritage? That would raise similar questions about being "British"
    Well, I think heritage is a part of it. Absolutely.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    You can say what ever you want, but it all boils down to some basic things.

    Legality: Your passport
    Ethinically: Your historic place of residence

    Of course Howard has a point. And my point was not valid?

    What was my point? Was it not to augment his argument?
    I think it's more than this. As I say, if I naturalize as a US citizen in a few years (which I would like to do) and continue to live in the US, then I'd be American in the eyes of the law. I could do anything any other citizen could do (apart from becoming President for which you need to be actually born in the US)

    But I maintain that there's varying degrees of Americanism and there's no way I'd be as American as the guy next door with 200 years of American tradition in his family.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I think it's more than this. As I say, if I naturalize as a US citizen in a few years (which I would like to do) and continue to live in the US, then I'd be American in the eyes of the law. I could do anything any other citizen could do (apart from becoming President for which you need to be actually born in the US)

    But I maintain that there's varying degrees of Americanism and there's no way I'd be as American as the guy next door with 200 years of American tradition in his family.
    I was referring to Bono, who apparently has an identity crisis.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    You can say what ever you want, but it all boils down to some basic things.

    Legality: Your passport
    Ethinically: Your historic place of residence

    Of course Howard has a point. And my point was not valid?

    What was my point? Was it not to augment his argument?
    Passport - I don't have one
    Ethnically - Foreign parents

    I do agree with you though, I could enver say "I'm english" without thinking "I'm not really, if you think about it".

    EDIT: Actually, not sure about the passport as I've never used one...
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    I didn't think it was about national identity, rather more about who has the right to live in a certain country. I was arguing that since most people in America are immigrants, how can they turn round and say we don't want any more immigrants? They are just discriminating based on how long someone's family has lived in a certain place. Which is nonsense.
    They're discriminating on the basis that they don't need any more immigrants. Surely, as a sovereign nation they can make that determination?
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    (Original post by 2776)
    I was referring to Bono, who apparently has an identity crisis.
    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by bono)
    Passport - I don't have one
    Ethnically - Foreign parents

    I do agree with you though, I could enver say "I'm english" without thinking "I'm not really, if you think about it".
    Passport: refers to your legality of the situation

    Are you suggesting that you don't have a passport per se, or just don't have a English passport?
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    (Original post by 2776)
    I was referring to Bono, who apparently has an identity crisis.
    No. I understand Bono's sentiments actually. Bono's parents as you know moved to the UK from Iran. That being so then Bono is a first generation Brit. It is understandable that first generation people still feel strong ties to their native lands and often never feel 100% at home.

    These feelings dilute with each generation (Bono's grandchildren might have difficulty pointing out Iran on a map)
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    (Original post by 2776)
    Passport: refers to your legality of the situation

    Are you suggesting that you don't have a passport per se, or just don't have a English passport?
    Actually I think I do have a pasport, an english one at that, but I'm not toally sure to be honest as I've never had to use it.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    No. I understand Bono's sentiments actually. Bono's parents as you know moved to the UK from Iran. That being so then Bono is a first generation Brit. It is understandable that first generation people still feel strong ties to their native lands and often never feel 100% at home.

    These feelings dilute with each generation (Bono's grandchildren might have difficulty pointing out Iran on a map)
    Of course I understand the situation, but I wasn't referring to it.

    The thought of Bono having children scares me.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    The Americans, I believe are not worried about immirgants as such, rather people who come to the country without putting something back into the country. They would be perfectly happy with a immigrant professor coming to the country, and earning his keep.
    So it's not really the point of them being an immagrant as such, it's their profession/occupation.
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    (Original post by 2776)
    Of course I understand the situation, but I wasn't referring to it.

    The thought of Bono having children scares me.
    I just thought, as 2776_2 is merged with 2776, does this mean that you could sign up with 2776_2 again?

    EDIT: Sorry, this is not part of the conversation.
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    (Original post by piginapoke)
    You personally won't, but what of your offspring, or their offspring? Is Americanism counted as how long your family has lived their in terms of a percentage of the time since the Mayflower? I don't think someone who has a family tree stretching back to William the Conqueror is any more British than myself: my ancestors are Irish and came to England around 1900.
    They will of course. See my comments above.

    No, I don't think that "Americanism counted as how long your family has lived their in terms of a percentage of the time since the Mayflower"

    Obviously you don't get one American saying to another "well I'm more American than you since my ansestors arrived in 1620 as the original puritans and your lot only made it here in 1840"

    But, I still think that the "hallmark of authenticity" can only be gained in time. The simple granting of a passport, though making you equal in legal terms, just doesn't cut the ice when we're talking about the genuine article.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    They're discriminating on the basis that they don't need any more immigrants. Surely, as a sovereign nation they can make that determination?
    But they would accept immagrants (presumably) if they brought something positive to the country. i.e.) if they were a doctor or a professor. Therefore I wouldn't say the matter is whether they are an immagrant as such.
 
 
 
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