Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by waiting2smile)
    aww bless, you still won't give up.
    Give up what? What do i have that can be 'given up'?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FoxNewsRocks)
    Well when President Bush or Prime Minister Blair do something, its always the americans and the british people doing it in everyone elses eyes. Get a grip my man!

    You are missing the clear difference between the link between democratically elected representatives and their people, and private individual citizens and the rest of their population.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    You are missing the clear difference between the link between democratically elected representatives and their people, and private individual citizens and the rest of their population.
    Its not me, its the whole world.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Yes I agree. But you are perpetuating it in an indefensible manner by saying "Jews" did this or "Muslims" did this - even if it is a majority it is hard to countenance your applying the act to the entire group. Just because the mistake is common does not mean you can justify it.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FoxNewsRocks)
    Well when President Bush or Prime Minister Blair do something, its always the americans and the british people doing it in everyone elses eyes. Get a grip my man!
    Read: "I only did it because everyone else was doing it!"

    These generalisations are also bad. 9/11th happened because of these generalised and unnyansed attitudes among a group of fanatic muslims. All these generalisations were you hold the public colectiveley responsible is extremely bad. Not all the French supported Chiraq in threatening to veto in the Iraq question. Not all americans agree with the lack of civil rights for prisioners at guantanamo bay. But regardless, that these generalised and directly ignorant attitudes exist widely is not a reason [nor an excuse] for you to adopt them. I happen to be extremely annoyed at those europeans who go about blaiming capitalism and the US for everything wrong in the world while we have tax levels above 60% (talking about norway here). But this doesnt mean that I will support disrespectful generalisations about Jews, Muslims , Christians or any other religious group.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    I just need to say that this quote is quite wonderful:

    "If my theory turns out to be correct, the Germans will say I'm a German, and the French will say I'm a citizen of the world; If, on the other hand, my theory turns out to be false, the French will say I'm a German, and the Germans will say I'm a Jew!" - Albert Einstein
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Read: "I only did it because everyone else was doing it!"

    These generalisations are also bad. 9/11th happened because of these generalised and unnyansed attitudes among a group of fanatic muslims. All these generalisations were you hold the public colectiveley responsible is extremely bad. Not all the French supported Chiraq in threatening to veto in the Iraq question. Not all americans agree with the lack of civil rights for prisioners at guantanamo bay. But regardless, that these generalised and directly ignorant attitudes exist widely is not a reason [nor an excuse] for you to adopt them. I happen to be extremely annoyed at those europeans who go about blaiming capitalism and the US for everything wrong in the world while we have tax levels above 60% (talking about norway here). But this doesnt mean that I will support disrespectful generalisations about Jews, Muslims , Christians or any other religious group.
    Did you read the long post i made earlier, like where i said most of my learning comes from jewish sources that dare to talk and tell what really goes on. I think that in itself states that i dont consider all jews as the bad guys. You know who i am talking about when i say "the jews", its the World Bankers, the media moguls, the zionists, the political lobbyists, the hate groups like the ADL, the American Jewish Congress...et al, yes thats exactly what they are. Funny you pick the simplest tivial thing about my post to make issue of, i would have thought you`d of picked a different road but then thats whats so cool about debating.

    Why do some jewish orgs threaten lives of people that disagree with their agendas? Does that make you happy that they do this type of thing? What about peoples homes that get burned down because they choose to speak out against jewish control? Is that maybe a reason for people to tend to have a disliking for these jews? What about if you were a politician, doesnt matter what country, and jews used their media influences to smear you out of office. Is this something that makes you proud? Does using iron fist politics against anyone that doesnt agree with you a moral way to win over sympathy? Doesnt it ever make you wonder why jews attract so much attention to themselves? It isnt because they are jewish, its because of what they do my friend! You do not see universal dislike of the christian parts of Italy, Britain/USA or Australia, etc.. its always the jews from those countries causing the troubles. And the heart of it is because these govts are the money trees off which israel picks its illegal fruit and it will do all it can to prevent losing these trees, and everyone reading these debates know this, they just wont or cant say it.

    Someone stated in an earlier post, maybe it was this thread, dont remember offhand, but this person said the US GNP was like 1,000,000,000,000,000 or something to that effect and the fact that we gave israel 5 billion a year meant very little. Since when does how much a GNP is determine the legality or morality of the funding? Thats like saying since Bill gates is a billionaire, he is ok to steal a few million here and there and he shouldnt even ask questions about where the money went! Why cant countries hold referendums on all policies and let the people approve or dis-approve contraversial matters.

    If we gave the palestinians 5 billion a year, would the jews say 'cool thats what we get too' OR would they raise holy hades and demand we stop it and start making threats to politicians to withdraw the support? We all know the answer to that one dont we?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    I just need to say that this quote is quite wonderful:

    "If my theory turns out to be correct, the Germans will say I'm a German, and the French will say I'm a citizen of the world; If, on the other hand, my theory turns out to be false, the French will say I'm a German, and the Germans will say I'm a Jew!" - Albert Einstein
    Sorry if I'm being dumb here, but could you explain this quote to me? I just don't get it...
    Thanks!
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by zizero)
    Sorry if I'm being dumb here, but could you explain this quote to me? I just don't get it...
    Thanks!

    It just shows up the fickleness of people - and how quick they are to claim the praise when it exists but are equally quick to shift the blame onto others to suit their purposes
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Foxnews - I think you make a number fo good points - although some of them are narrow - for instance the reason that giving the Palestinians money might be seen as worse than giving it to Israel is that the former is not a democracy (rightly or wrongly - but it is a possible point)

    However, I wasn't cherry picking your points, I was simply pointing out that you should be slightly more circumspect in your choice of words... and generalisations
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    Foxnews - I think you make a number fo good points - although some of them are narrow - for instance the reason that giving the Palestinians money might be seen as worse than giving it to Israel is that the former is not a democracy (rightly or wrongly - but it is a possible point)

    However, I wasn't cherry picking your points, I was simply pointing out that you should be slightly more circumspect in your choice of words... and generalisations
    You are correct. I shall try to be clearer in the future.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FoxNewsRocks)
    Did you read the long post i made earlier, like where i said most of my learning comes from jewish sources that dare to talk and tell what really goes on. I think that in itself states that i dont consider all jews as the bad guys. You know who i am talking about when i say "the jews", its the World Bankers, the media moguls, the zionists, the political lobbyists, the hate groups like the ADL, the American Jewish Congress...et al, yes thats exactly what they are. Funny you pick the simplest tivial thing about my post to make issue of, i would have thought you`d of picked a different road but then thats whats so cool about debating.

    Why do some jewish orgs threaten lives of people that disagree with their agendas? Does that make you happy that they do this type of thing? What about peoples homes that get burned down because they choose to speak out against jewish control? Is that maybe a reason for people to tend to have a disliking for these jews? What about if you were a politician, doesnt matter what country, and jews used their media influences to smear you out of office. Is this something that makes you proud? Does using iron fist politics against anyone that doesnt agree with you a moral way to win over sympathy? Doesnt it ever make you wonder why jews attract so much attention to themselves? It isnt because they are jewish, its because of what they do my friend! You do not see universal dislike of the christian parts of Italy, Britain/USA or Australia, etc.. its always the jews from those countries causing the troubles. And the heart of it is because these govts are the money trees off which israel picks its illegal fruit and it will do all it can to prevent losing these trees, and everyone reading these debates know this, they just wont or cant say it.

    Someone stated in an earlier post, maybe it was this thread, dont remember offhand, but this person said the US GNP was like 1,000,000,000,000,000 or something to that effect and the fact that we gave israel 5 billion a year meant very little. Since when does how much a GNP is determine the legality or morality of the funding? Thats like saying since Bill gates is a billionaire, he is ok to steal a few million here and there and he shouldnt even ask questions about where the money went! Why cant countries hold referendums on all policies and let the people approve or dis-approve contraversial matters.

    If we gave the palestinians 5 billion a year, would the jews say 'cool thats what we get too' OR would they raise holy hades and demand we stop it and start making threats to politicians to withdraw the support? We all know the answer to that one dont we?
    Most of your long post was so general it could apply to virtually any opinion posted on these forums, thats why I did not bother to comment it. As for Jewish controll, this is rediculous. Sure, you have many Jews in high positions, but it is far from teh magnitude you are reffering to. As for people getting their homes burned, that is quite common in Europe. JEWISH homes get burned. Graves get desecrated, and Jews are assaulted on town. Politicians dismiss this and whenever confrontated about growing anti-semitism you merely get some irrelevant comment about Israli foreign policy. And what is this nonsense about Jewish controll of media? Have you seen any European media? The BBC is an exception when it comes to objectivity. Other medias are so sceptical towards Israel that they often let antisemitic articles and comments through under the coverage of Israel-criticism. Norwegian Jews are asked not to show their religion at school because it "could provoke violence" whereas anyone even sugesting something similar about Muslim Hijabs are crucified across the newspapers to the extent where people have little doubt the person is a complete racist. Does this sound like a Jewish controlled media to you? The US media is very pro-Israel, but this is more due to traditional politics than Jewish influence. During teh Coldwar the US supported Israel and Sovit the Arab states. This is the main source of the US support for Israel. Jewish lobby organisations does matter, but to a minor extent.

    Rgearding foreign Aid the Palestinian national authoriy receoves hundreds of millions , mainly from Europe and teh US anually. Arafat has over and over again been accused of corruption, and it has been revealed how the corruption in the PNA causes absolutely none of this to reach the palestinian population. Yet the support continues to flow. In Sweden reports regarding corruption in the authorities who received Swedish foreign aid was classified because the conclusion was that Sweden had no reason whatsoever to send any money to palestine because it was only lost in corrpution among the PA members. Only recently this slipped out into Swedish press. The result is that several million Swedish crowns has been used purely for propaganda since the Oslo agreement.

    Corruption is all around, and your consistent pin-pointing against the Jews is rediculous. There is no evidence whatsoever to sugest that the Jews are more involved in the corrupt elements of our society than any other religious/ethnic/cultural group.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Most of your long post was so general it could apply to virtually any opinion posted on these forums, thats why I did not bother to comment it. As for Jewish controll, this is rediculous. Sure, you have many Jews in high positions, but it is far from teh magnitude you are reffering to. As for people getting their homes burned, that is quite common in Europe. JEWISH homes get burned. Graves get desecrated, and Jews are assaulted on town. Politicians dismiss this and whenever confrontated about growing anti-semitism you merely get some irrelevant comment about Israli foreign policy. And what is this nonsense about Jewish controll of media? Have you seen any European media? The BBC is an exception when it comes to objectivity. Other medias are so sceptical towards Israel that they often let antisemitic articles and comments through under the coverage of Israel-criticism. Norwegian Jews are asked not to show their religion at school because it "could provoke violence" whereas anyone even sugesting something similar about Muslim Hijabs are crucified across the newspapers to the extent where people have little doubt the person is a complete racist. Does this sound like a Jewish controlled media to you? The US media is very pro-Israel, but this is more due to traditional politics than Jewish influence. During teh Coldwar the US supported Israel and Sovit the Arab states. This is the main source of the US support for Israel. Jewish lobby organisations does matter, but to a minor extent.

    Rgearding foreign Aid the Palestinian national authoriy receoves hundreds of millions , mainly from Europe and teh US anually. Arafat has over and over again been accused of corruption, and it has been revealed how the corruption in the PNA causes absolutely none of this to reach the palestinian population. Yet the support continues to flow. In Sweden reports regarding corruption in the authorities who received Swedish foreign aid was classified because the conclusion was that Sweden had no reason whatsoever to send any money to palestine because it was only lost in corrpution among the PA members. Only recently this slipped out into Swedish press. The result is that several million Swedish crowns has been used purely for propaganda since the Oslo agreement.

    Corruption is all around, and your consistent pin-pointing against the Jews is rediculous. There is no evidence whatsoever to sugest that the Jews are more involved in the corrupt elements of our society than any other religious/ethnic/cultural group.
    I have to take issue with some of this. Anti-Semitism is NOT the same thing as having a problem with the Jewish government or Zionist policies - there is a much greater swell of opinion in Europe (and thus the media) against these groups - and their policies - but that is NOT anti-Semitism. Indeed the paranoia about this label goes so far that when a POLL of European people came out in the EU Commission - which showed that people considered Israel to be one of the greatest threats to World peace, the Israeli government had the AUDACITY to claim that this was anti-Semitism. What utter rubbish.

    Also just to note - anti-Semitism includes anti Arab sentiment - Jews are not the only Semitic people.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Most of your long post was so general it could apply to virtually any opinion posted on these forums, thats why I did not bother to comment it. As for Jewish controll, this is rediculous. Sure, you have many Jews in high positions, but it is far from teh magnitude you are reffering to. As for people getting their homes burned, that is quite common in Europe. JEWISH homes get burned. Graves get desecrated, and Jews are assaulted on town. Politicians dismiss this and whenever confrontated about growing anti-semitism you merely get some irrelevant comment about Israli foreign policy. And what is this nonsense about Jewish controll of media? Have you seen any European media? The BBC is an exception when it comes to objectivity. Other medias are so sceptical towards Israel that they often let antisemitic articles and comments through under the coverage of Israel-criticism. Norwegian Jews are asked not to show their religion at school because it "could provoke violence" whereas anyone even sugesting something similar about Muslim Hijabs are crucified across the newspapers to the extent where people have little doubt the person is a complete racist. Does this sound like a Jewish controlled media to you? The US media is very pro-Israel, but this is more due to traditional politics than Jewish influence. During teh Coldwar the US supported Israel and Sovit the Arab states. This is the main source of the US support for Israel. Jewish lobby organisations does matter, but to a minor extent.

    Rgearding foreign Aid the Palestinian national authoriy receoves hundreds of millions , mainly from Europe and teh US anually. Arafat has over and over again been accused of corruption, and it has been revealed how the corruption in the PNA causes absolutely none of this to reach the palestinian population. Yet the support continues to flow. In Sweden reports regarding corruption in the authorities who received Swedish foreign aid was classified because the conclusion was that Sweden had no reason whatsoever to send any money to palestine because it was only lost in corrpution among the PA members. Only recently this slipped out into Swedish press. The result is that several million Swedish crowns has been used purely for propaganda since the Oslo agreement.

    Corruption is all around, and your consistent pin-pointing against the Jews is rediculous. There is no evidence whatsoever to sugest that the Jews are more involved in the corrupt elements of our society than any other religious/ethnic/cultural group.

    I don't think we have that much anti-semitism in this country to be honest. Some of my friends are Jewish and they have never been a victim to any of these sorts of attacks. I don't think it is a good things to generallise everywhere in europe. Yes there are some anti-semitic people in the UK but no where near on the scale you had said
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by randdom)
    I don't think we have that much anti-semitism in this country to be honest. Some of my friends are Jewish and they have never been a victim to any of these sorts of attacks. I don't think it is a good things to generallise everywhere in europe. Yes there are some anti-semitic people in the UK but no where near on the scale you had said
    Yes I agree. the UK deserve credit for their support of teh rights of minorities. Most of teh Examples I mentioned are from Scandinavia.

    I am not even a Jew, and still people has gone about making fun of me for my Jewish background (despite the fact that the same peopel know that half my relatives died in the holocoust).

    I know that you will always have troublemakers and that you cannot expect to have no antisemitism at all, but the least you shoudl be able to require is that the government recognise that these problems exist.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    I have to take issue with some of this. Anti-Semitism is NOT the same thing as having a problem with the Jewish government or Zionist policies - there is a much greater swell of opinion in Europe (and thus the media) against these groups - and their policies - but that is NOT anti-Semitism. Indeed the paranoia about this label goes so far that when a POLL of European people came out in the EU Commission - which showed that people considered Israel to be one of the greatest threats to World peace, the Israeli government had the AUDACITY to claim that this was anti-Semitism. What utter rubbish.

    Also just to note - anti-Semitism includes anti Arab sentiment - Jews are not the only Semitic people.
    Well, here in Norway Jewish kids told by their principle not to wear Jewelery with the star of david because "it was provocative". Protestors in the capitoll were carrying signs were the star of david was compared to teh swastika. A norwegian politician decided to hold a heafty speach critisizing Israel on the memorial day of teh holocoust victims. I agree that you have to distinguish between Antisemitism and critics against Sharon and his goivernment (Btw, I considder sharon to be a lunatic of an ******* ) but that is not done in Scandinavia and many other places in Europe. It is not merely criticism towards Israel when grafitti showing nazi symbols and slogans are sprayed all over Jewish cemmentaries. It is not merely Israel criticism when people get socked in the face because they wear a necklace with teh star of david, and when these problems are adressed, it is unacceptable to blaim Israel when the government does nothing to deal with these problems. I know Britain has far fewer of these problems and incidents, but Scandinavia for one place has some serious issues regarding their human rights policies.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    That is lamentable - I am sorry to hear that such things are so prevelant. However I still think it is VITAL to keep that sort of thing separate from the notion of criticism of Israel, and although you seem sophisticated enough to do so, the Israeli government is not
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    That is lamentable - I am sorry to hear that such things are so prevelant. However I still think it is VITAL to keep that sort of thing separate from the notion of criticism of Israel, and although you seem sophisticated enough to do so, the Israeli government is not
    Speaking of supressing reports - an EU review showing anti-semitic acts such as grave desecration and synagogue vandalism had greatly increased was withheld from publishing, until it had been rewritten with a different conclusion.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    That sounds more like an allegation than a fact. I would not be supprised if it was the latter, but I woul dbe interested to know if it is proveable
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    That is lamentable - I am sorry to hear that such things are so prevelant. However I still think it is VITAL to keep that sort of thing separate from the notion of criticism of Israel, and although you seem sophisticated enough to do so, the Israeli government is not
    I think most governments around the world has quite a low threshold for interpretating big political issues in teh way they find it suitable. This is not a feature exclusive to teh Israeli government. Having said that I must say that Sharon has managed to get himself into the worst political mess I could imagine. Labour wants him out of politics because of teh settlemets, the right wingers want him out of politics because of his disengagement plan. The press thrives on the corruption accusations. The EU is pissed at him because of his hardline policy over the palestinians, and if he doesnt watch out the US republicans are going to get pissed at him for ruining their election campain. Also, why on earth does he threaten Arafat? I mean, he knows he cant do anything to Arafat cus it would launch a political crusade against him personally (Including teh US). And by threatening him he is really strengthening arafats political position. The only possible explanation I can see is that he needs the support of the right-wingers to keep his majority in Knesset. Politics works the same way as usual....
 
 
 
Poll
“Yanny” or “Laurel”
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.