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    (Original post by Cheestring)
    Ah so you are a non-voter, just as bad!
    There is more than 4 politic parties. To assume a person is a non-voter because they don't support one of the big 4 is a silly assumption given the BNP, Respect and Green Party have all been mentioned in this thread.
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    (Original post by james22)
    I'm undecided on the whole EU thing, but if you ignore that side of them they have some very right wing policies. They want to increase the armed forces, build more prisons and introduce a flat tax rate. They don't explain how to pay for this or why it would be a good thing.
    Flat rate tax is inherently a good thing - no explanation is needed.
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    (Original post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel)
    I have been watching UKIP closely these past few months, and I read their official website the other day to look at an overview of their main poilicies.

    I was not impressed.

    How are they going to fund lowering taxes for everyone while at the same time increase defence spending by 40%? Guess what? They didn't tell me on the website, and even to this day nobody knows how they will do it.

    They cannot cut education, or health, as that would be a votekiller.

    They base their main policies on withdrawing from the EU, but to be honest in the short-to-mid term that would be damaging to British trade and the economy, as we would have to establish trade ties with worldwide importers and exporters (more difficult in ASEAN region than in the US, for instance), whereas the EuroZone would already have 40 years of ties already in existance.

    UKIP do not have the knowhow or the prowess to administer this shift.

    In all honesty, I don't want to be part of the EU (but do think UK should be part of Schengen) but we have long since ingrained ourselves in the EU and to withdraw now is just stupid and pointless, and even backwards-thinking.

    I also agree that UKIP are basically just a right-wing version of the Tories (what the Tories used to be under Thatcher, and ill-advisedly Major).

    I would not vote for UKIP, but I am noticing a lot of young people really are talking about them in a positive way, which would imply a disgruntled attitude with the state of the LibLabCon political scene as a whole.
    No party ever ran an election campaign on all kinds of stuff they've actually gone on to do, including increasing the deficit, and that's what both Labour and the Tories have done. Democracy would benefit hugely from a real grilling of all political parties. For a small, relatively new party, UKIP seem to be held to much higher standards than their opponents. It seems to me to be a ludicrous state of affairs when these opponents have helped to bring the country to the state it is now in.

    I'll vote UKIP until that real grilling happens and I'm satisfied that another party has a better plan.
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    (Original post by SciFiRory)
    I find them to be repugnant xenophobic homophobic vermin. I would sooner vote for a dead rat than them.
    So you'll be voting labour then with a closed mind like that then
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    People advocating a flat rate of tax on the basis of fairness towards the rich, you need to realise that thanks to regressive taxes the amount of tax paid by the rich currently as a proportion of wealth is not actually too different to that paid by those much poorer. The "effective tax rate" paid by the very richest is not too different to that paid by the rest of population, in terms of wealth % vs. tax burden %.




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_...Kingdom#Wealth

    Top 1% - 21% of total UK wealth
    Top 2% - 28% of total UK wealth
    Top 5% - 40% of total UK wealth
    Top 10% - 53% of total UK wealth
    Top 25% - 72% of total UK wealth
    Top 50% - 93% of total UK wealth


    To be clear, the poorest 50% in this country have just 7% of the country's wealth to share between them, and they pay 11% of the tax - more than 50% extra in proportional terms. I've said this before but people are quick to forget.
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    The other alarming statistic to be drawn from what I just posted is that the richest 1% have 3 times more wealth to share between them than the poorest 50%.

    Can we stop licking their boots now?
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    (Original post by euphful)
    Racist, homophobic bigots with little or no actual policy content beyond uncosted and unworkable vague commitments like lowering taxes for pretty much everyone, increasing defence spending by 40% and scrapping tuition fees but also scrapping the target that 50% of young people go to university- in the middle of a budget deficit crisis!

    They're nothing more than a pressure group with the single non-issue of Europe at their heart. All faith in common sense in the electorate of this country will be wiped out if they continue to make gains beyond what they already have.


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    most of their policies have been costed. Labour is the party that has problems costing things.
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    (Original post by euphful)
    Racist, homophobic bigots with little or no actual policy content beyond uncosted and unworkable vague commitments like lowering taxes for pretty much everyone, increasing defence spending by 40% and scrapping tuition fees but also scrapping the target that 50% of young people go to university- in the middle of a budget deficit crisis!

    They're nothing more than a pressure group with the single non-issue of Europe at their heart. All faith in common sense in the electorate of this country will be wiped out if they continue to make gains beyond what they already have.


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    (Original post by Redolent)
    People advocating a flat rate of tax on the basis of fairness towards the rich, you need to realise that thanks to regressive taxes the amount of tax paid by the rich currently as a proportion of wealth is not actually too different to that paid by those much poorer. The "effective tax rate" paid by the very richest is not too different to that paid by the rest of population, in terms of wealth % vs. tax burden %.




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_...Kingdom#Wealth

    Top 1% - 21% of total UK wealth
    Top 2% - 28% of total UK wealth
    Top 5% - 40% of total UK wealth
    Top 10% - 53% of total UK wealth
    Top 25% - 72% of total UK wealth
    Top 50% - 93% of total UK wealth


    To be clear, the poorest 50% in this country have just 7% of the country's wealth to share between them, and they pay 11% of the tax - almost 50% extra in proportional terms. I've said this before but people are quick to forget.
    Are you sure about your claim? I'd like to see your reference document for that and the calculations. The poorest 50% take out more from the system than they pay in.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    most of their policies have been costed. Labour is the party that has problems costing things.
    So you think it's prudent, in the middle of a budget deficit crisis, to lower taxes for the wealthiest and increase spending majorly on defence and criminal justice/prison places? Really? Where is this money going to come from?


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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Are you sure about your claim? I'd like to see your reference document for that and the calculations. The poorest 50% take out more from the system than they pay in.
    Not according to the BBC, who get their stats directly from the taxman.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17397199

    And the Wikipedia source is below:

    http://tna.europarchive.org/20100413...table-2005.pdf
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    (Original post by jtyne)
    Are you a fan?




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    Do you understand what context is?

    "The tracks "Kill All the White People" and "We Hate Everyone" were written in response to the controversy over the band's alleged racist sentiments that emerged after a tour in Europe and because of Peter Steele's previous band Carnivore's explicit lyrics. They feature lyrics mocking the whole issue. These songs were later omitted from the digipak release of this album since they differ stylistically from the rest of the tracks."
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    BNP-lite
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    Do you understand what context is?

    "The tracks "Kill All the White People" and "We Hate Everyone" were written in response to the controversy over the band's alleged racist sentiments that emerged after a tour in Europe and because of Peter Steele's previous band Carnivore's explicit lyrics. They feature lyrics mocking the whole issue. These songs were later omitted from the digipak release of this album since they differ stylistically from the rest of the tracks."
    Which falls exactly into group conformity theory of white ethno masochism, a reaction to being accused of racism and these are usually done with humour:




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    (Original post by Redolent)
    Not according to the BBC, who get their stats directly from the taxman.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17397199

    And the Wikipedia source is below:

    http://tna.europarchive.org/20100413...table-2005.pdf
    I remember the article. You've naturally mis represented it.
    The key quote is.
    By contrast, the bottom 50% of income taxpayers paid just over 11% of income tax.
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    (Original post by jtyne)
    Which falls exactly into group conformity theory of white ethno masochism, a reaction to being accused of racism and these are usually done with humour:




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    Yeah whatever. Sounds to me like you can't take a joke. These bands don't hate white people, end of.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I remember the article. You've naturally mis represented it.
    The key quote is.
    By contrast, the bottom 50% of income taxpayers paid just over 11% of income tax.

    The statistics are right there. The poorest 50% in the UK pay 11% of the income tax burden but have just 7% of the wealth. That's a fact.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    You honestly think the Greens could ever 'surge' in the polls? They're just as unelectable as the bloomin' BNP!
    Whilst i agree, the Greens do know how to play the system. There's a good chance of them holding Brighton and even taking Norwich South.

    (Original post by Callum96)
    I'd just like to know the general view on UKIP across TSR. Personally I am sympathetic to their views and could even see myself voting for them in a future election.
    Whilst i don't mind some of their policies they are largely made up of the nuttier ex-Tories similar in views to those on the back benches. They campaign on a platform of social conservatism which is in terminal decline and are largely gaining now as a protest in particular for disaffected Tories. They stand no chance of even being the third party and their support is amplified on TSR by the much more ideological nature of students. There programmes are largely unfunded, they have some very stupid policies like referendums on fox hunting and the death penalty, their arguments for leaving the EU are Daily Mail esq and they make several stupid errors like claiming that regulation costs us £60bn then conveniently forgetting that we'd have to bring in a lot of regulation ourselves anyway.

    Ukip will gain but they will not break double digits come the general election and if there is a referendum in 2017, they will lose.
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    Yeah whatever. Sounds to me like you can't take a joke. These bands don't hate white people, end of.



    Are you kidding me? Could you be any more shamelessly biased?

    .
    Could you be any more shamelessly biased. Just google "fired for racist joke" and you will see that all (or 90% + because no doubt someone will go looking for a needle in a haystack to negate truth) the people who have been fired for a racist joke are white people and non-whites the subject of the jokes. Only whites can be the subject of jokes with a racial element.

    I can take a joke. But this situation is no joke!!!

    Example:

    http://election.democraticundergroun...ess=433x607687

    PITTSBURGH -- Lawsuits were filed against the Centers for Rehab Services by two employees who were fired over an e-mail comparing President Barack Obama to a tar ball washing ashore in the Gulf of Mexico.

    The company said the e-mail was inappropriate, but the employees said they were just expressing their political views and were wrongfully fired.



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    Dirty, lying scum like most but taken to extreme. They seem to have one key selling point "but we're not racist". Fair enough I don't think they necessarily are racist, bigoted or xenophobic, I doubt they could give less of a ****, but a high proportion of their target audience most certainly are and they are more than happy to pander to them in their quest for politcal influence.

    Scared of immigrants? Vote Ukip.

    Insecure about the financial crisis? Vote Ukip.

    Hate the smoking ban, HS2, Brussels, travellers, burqas, regulation, tax, Boris, debt, wind farms, quangos, foreign aid, crime, Abu Qatada, tuition fees, lazy people, Muslims, foreigners, the hunting ban? Vote Ukip.

    In return for buying into their fear mongering we can expect:
    More workfare/slave labour
    Tax cuts for the rich
    An erosion of human rights
    And bizzarely for a supposedly libertarian anti-war party a massive increase in military expenditure.
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    (Original post by jtyne)
    Could you be any more shamelessly biased. Just google "fired for racist joke" and you will see that all (or 90% + because no doubt someone will go looking for a needle in a haystack to negate truth) the people who have been fired for a racist joke are white people and non-whites the subject of the jokes. Only whites can be the subject of jokes with a racial element.

    I can take a joke. But this situation is no joke!!!

    Example:

    http://election.democraticundergroun...ess=433x607687

    PITTSBURGH -- Lawsuits were filed against the Centers for Rehab Services by two employees who were fired over an e-mail comparing President Barack Obama to a tar ball washing ashore in the Gulf of Mexico.

    The company said the e-mail was inappropriate, but the employees said they were just expressing their political views and were wrongfully fired.
    If it goes against the company's code of conduct then they have the right to fire them.

    I'm seeing white people make jokes about white people, in the same way black people often make jokes about black people. That's called self-depracating humour and most people who aren't completely uptight do it from time to time. If a load of black guys want to make jokes about white guys then they can expect the opposite in return, but that's not what's happening here.

    Also, need I remind you that the west contains more than 500 million people. You are cherry picking a few extreme incidents to justify your unwarranted sense of oppression. The reality is white people are still better off in modern society than the other races, so for some people that's a sensitive issue. Others go over the top and get offended too quickly. Some people like you harp on about how the whites are suffering a genocide! I mean I've seen fair concerns about the overbearing nature of political correctness but that's just ridiculous.
 
 
 
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