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Original post by CEKTOP
I think you're underestimating the level of intelligence of the masses, a lot of "common people" are actually quite sensible and informed.

We would have to disagree on this.

The problem that immigration poses is that it breeds an entirely new underclass of the British society. First and second generation Eastern European immigrants will be largely unable to enter the middle class, that leaves us with at least 30 years of an artificially enlarged working class couple with increasing scarcity of jobs available to its members due to steady technological development that will surely continue. Britain might end up with millions of first generation immigrants staying in this country to retire and millions more on the dole - an immense strain on the budget. It is time to stop thinking about the financial prospects of big business and electoral prospects of political parties supporting immigration and let in only highly qualified professionals.

I completely agree.
Reply 221
Original post by effofex
The average citizen is literate and has access to the internet for at least some period of the day.


Such preconditions are in no way sufficient to argue that the average citizen can come to a sensible conclusion on an issue of national importance.
Reply 222
Original post by uktotalgamer
That's why money should be spent on them. I'm all for immigration in the right circumstances but we need to take care of our own house first. Get the younger generation sorted out other we'll be left with a lazy benefit claiming generation.


British governments have not been too keen on this though.

*They do not subsidize masters-level education to the same extent as their European counterparts do.
*They do not emphasize the continued learning of foreign languages (particularly Spanish, Arabic and Mandarin) beyond the age of 16, as many of their European counterparts do.
*Many British universities do not incorporate a year abroad as part of their degrees to near the extent that their European university counterparts do.
Reply 223
Original post by CEKTOP
Such preconditions are in no way sufficient to argue that the average citizen can come to a sensible conclusion on an issue of national importance.


I'm sure they can:

a) design an e-petition,
b) sign an e-petition.
Reply 224
Original post by Hanvyj
Ie they are better employees?

Personally I wouldn't think about 'answering back' to my boss (unless its some kind of constructive input) because he/she is my damn boss!

I also work over-time without pay, because I'm not paid for overtime... Its a job, you have to do extra sometimes.


'Answering back' as in sticking-up for oneself. If you work over-time without pay they you are a fool, and if you keep doing it you will become a robot.
Original post by Free.Help
Why are so many people aganist immigrants/refugees/asylum seekers in this country?: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2288190/Why-SHOULD-crackdown-migrants-mean-crackdown-Britain.html

They are obviously vital for our economy and usually here to better themselves through work no one in this country usually wants (factory, kebab shop) or they are fleeing war torn countries. I personally know many immigrants and most suffer mental and physical health problems due to trauma, and most of their children/family have been brutially killed.

Again, in many newspapers they seem to imply we have the most immigrants coming here, but the actual figure is less than 2% of refugees arriving here (most go to afgan/pakistan/jorden etc.). And other western countries such as Canada/Austr. take more than 10 times the number that EUROPE takes.

Of course, they are a select few who abuse the 'relaxed' system of this country but why do so many people seem to think this is the majority?

P.S. I know the Daily Mail are idiots, but thought I'd use their acticle becuase so many people seem to commont on this website.


Immigration is an ECONOMIC policy. It is not always a good or bad thing, it depends on the situation of the economy. Currently we are NOT RUNNING AT FULL CAPACITY and we HAVE LOTS OF UNMPLOYMENT espically in lower skilled labour intensive jobs which immigrants are more likely to go for ( as they are generally lowered skilled than the average UK resident). This pushes down labour costs for the working class, creating greater wealth in-equality and widening our NEGATIVE OUTPUT GAP, it is ECONOMIC MADNESS to suggest that we need more low skilled labour. WE NEED HIGH SKILLED IMMIGRANTS, that would be VERY BENEFICAL, but the SUPPLY of this is much SMALLER.
Reply 226
Original post by effofex
I'm sure they can:

a) design an e-petition,
b) sign an e-petition.


The issues are

1) They may not be aware of the fact that e-petitions exist.
2) They may not be interested in anything even remotely related to politics.
3) They may realise that their efforts are guaranteed to be futile.
4) They may not trust the government of the day with handling the issue.
Reply 227
Original post by effofex
British governments have not been too keen on this though.

*They do not subsidize masters-level education to the same extent as their European counterparts do.
*They do not emphasize the continued learning of foreign languages (particularly Spanish, Arabic and Mandarin) beyond the age of 16, as many of their European counterparts do.
*Many British universities do not incorporate a year abroad as part of their degrees to near the extent that their European university counterparts do.


1) A Master's degree is hardly a huge necessity as it can be obtained throughout one's career. Plus the money is scarce and providing even more subsidies would harm the economy as a Master's degree is not a huge step up from a Bachelor's degree.
2) The whole world currently strives to learn English as it is the language, almost every successful Chinese professional speaks it, there is virtually no need to learn Mandarin or any other foreign language for that matter, you can hire a translator if things get rough.
3) In most cases a year abroad is a useless endeavour, this whole exposure to a foreign culture thing is overrated.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by effofex
British governments have not been too keen on this though.

*They do not subsidize masters-level education to the same extent as their European counterparts do.
*They do not emphasize the continued learning of foreign languages (particularly Spanish, Arabic and Mandarin) beyond the age of 16, as many of their European counterparts do.
*Many British universities do not incorporate a year abroad as part of their degrees to near the extent that their European university counterparts do.


Your whole argument is why this has never worked. University, university, university. This was all that we pushed in my school. Guess what. I didn't go, I work in industry.

All this is about uni. You don't get it. Immigrants generally do UNSKILLED work that doesn't require uni. University is not the answer.

Put simply, the youths of this generation need to realise a few things:
-Your not born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Your not entitled to a good job.
-You've gotta work a lot to get that £50,000 job you want...
-Man up.

This isn't about uni students, it's about unskilled labour which some youths think they are far too good for despite having no education...
Reply 229
Original post by Martyn*
'Answering back' as in sticking-up for oneself. If you work over-time without pay they you are a fool, and if you keep doing it you will become a robot.


I guess I just have a different work environment, for me working beyond my contracted hours shows I'm committed and hence get more responsibility (for example I recently got to manage a project) that wouldn't happen if I did the minimum I could get away with.

If I keep doing it I will get a promotion! Its worked so far.
Reply 231
Original post by Hanvyj
I guess I just have a different work environment, for me working beyond my contracted hours shows I'm committed and hence get more responsibility (for example I recently got to manage a project) that wouldn't happen if I did the minimum I could get away with.

If I keep doing it I will get a promotion! Its worked so far.


I guess so. Good luck.
I can't understand why immigrants (or we can call them migrants) create and continue to live in little Italy, Poland, China, South Africa or Australia. I don't hate anyone. But probably I'll get told off by 'cultured' Britons because of my so-called' ignorance.
Reply 233
Original post by CEKTOP
The issues are

1) They may not be aware of the fact that e-petitions exist.
2) They may not be interested in anything even remotely related to politics.
3) They may realise that their efforts are guaranteed to be futile.
4) They may not trust the government of the day with handling the issue.


If 2) then they might as well not have a problem with free movement of labour and capital.
Reply 234
Original post by effofex
If 2) then they might as well not have a problem with free movement of labour and capital.


Immigration is not necessarily a political issue for them, rather a social one.
Reply 235
I read the Daily Mail everyday... For the lols

Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 236
Original post by CEKTOP
1) A Master's degree is hardly a huge necessity as it can be obtained throughout one's career. Plus the money is scarce and providing even more subsidies would harm the economy as a Master's degree is not a huge step up from a Bachelor's degree.
2) The whole world currently strives to learn English as it is the language, almost every successful Chinese professional speaks it, there is virtually no need to learn Mandarin or any other foreign language for that matter, you can hire a translator if things get rough.
3) In most cases a year abroad is a useless endeavour, this whole exposure to a foreign culture thing is overrated.


1) It may not always offer a huge advantage in technical skills but in certain industries many recruiters show a clear preference for those candidates who have undertaken and received research masters qualifications. Other European nations manage to spend a higher proportion of their national budget on higher education than the United Kingdom does. In many other Western European nations the percentage of undergraduate degree students who go on to acquire postgraduate qualifications is much higher than in the United Kingdom.

2) If you can speak to your client in their local language as well as English then you tend to have an advantage over salespeople who can only communicate in the latter language. There is a reason why many business development and sales positions require competency in the language of the national market(s) in which the firm is primarily selling.

3) The year abroad is not necessarily about 'exposure to a foreign culture' but expanding your network to incorporate people who will be able to help you in your career - e.g. in a research institution if an opening arises it may not be advertised online, but the people advertising may preferentially contact you to inform you of it supposing you have an existing business relationship.
Reply 237
Original post by uktotalgamer
Your whole argument is why this has never worked. University, university, university. This was all that we pushed in my school. Guess what. I didn't go, I work in industry.

All this is about uni. You don't get it. Immigrants generally do UNSKILLED work that doesn't require uni. University is not the answer.

Put simply, the youths of this generation need to realise a few things:
-Your not born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Your not entitled to a good job.
-You've gotta work a lot to get that £50,000 job you want...
-Man up.

This isn't about uni students, it's about unskilled labour which some youths think they are far too good for despite having no education...


Alot of companies in the UK do not wish to spend too much on training younger candidates, particularly when there is a market of ready-qualified candidates with sufficient experience.

Immigrants work across every spectrum of the labour force - from the most unskilled jobs to the most skilled jobs. If you go to the City of London and look at any quant team you will find that there is usually always a majority of male immigrants - it is the same story in software engineering, petroleum engineering and other technical industries.
Reply 238
Original post by effofex
If people voluntarily wish to take some medication (without state coercion) then I don't see why Human Rights groups or lawyers would interfere.


If people want to take it voluntarily then I agree they should be allowed to.
Reply 239
Original post by effofex
This wouldn't be possible if you ensured that the overwhelming majority of migrants were male - men cannot breed with men. Any population's growth rate is restricted by the numbers of females there are within that population.

The 'feminists' have had very little ability to prevent the Gulf states from prioritizing male migration - they have also had very little bearing in preventing many Western companies in technical industries from hiring predominantly men (in many cases hiring more non-Western men into European offices than Western women into the same offices).


Seriously stop comparing the Gulf states to Europe. They don't operate under the same social paradigm. Anti discrimination of any sort (including gender) is enshrined in law and zealously policed by the diversity gestapo. They are financially incentivized. It is akin to religious/moral police in Muslim countries.

What you are suggesting is not a solution because the very diversity orthodoxy that is pro-immigration will be anti-male only immigration. It is not possible or even desirable. Overall immigration must be curbed.
(edited 10 years ago)

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