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    (Original post by Free.Help)
    Excatly my point. Immigration is such a tiny 'problem', and we have much bigger issues to deal with first. People's ignorance on this issue is strong...But I guess it's easier to blame those who don't have a voice and can't defend themselves, then blame the real villians.

    9 out of 10 jobs go to immigrants. in terms of jobs, wages the job market and opportunity, mass immigration is the biggest problem out there.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...f-10-jobs.html
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    (Original post by Free.Help)
    Well depending on why they are here, it benefits the immigrants also.

    But shouldn't people be angry with the company's who expolit immigrants, rather than blame the victums? I don't get why people blame those who get treated unfairly, while it's the company who is breaking the law and laughing all the way to the bank :confused:

    i don't see anyone anywhere blaming the immigrants themselves. the issue is with the system. there are almost 3 million unemployed in britain. the poor and working classes already have a tough enough time finding work without having to compete like animals for job scraps with millions of poor, cheap competition which are imported every few years.
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    (Original post by Mourinho<3)
    Have a look at many low-paid positions and you will see migrant men also. They guy at club toilets selling stuff?

    I don't think I said migrants didn't get top jobs, just that migrants often get the poorer jobs that others in that country don't particuarly want.

    At least thats what I was trying to say, if I'm wrong I apologise. I was just saying that the argument "immigrants took our jobs" is wrong simply.
    I would say they also often get the best jobs that most of the indigenous people may want.

    For example when I worked in the Netherlands I worked at a company where over 50% of revenue-generating employees were migrant men. In fact when considered as individual nationalities, American men, Chinese men, Indian men and Russian men outnumbeered Dutch women in ABSOLUTE numerical terms (i.e. not just in terms of their proportion of the local population).

    Also those 'guys at club toilets' who you mention are quite likely to have more than one job (i.e - one they do during the day). Supposing they were unable to cover their costs, they probably would cut their losses and move elsewhere. Speaking as a migrant man - nobody intends to make a lossmaking move or put up with it for long supposing they accidentally do make such a move.
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    (Original post by rolos12345)

    the combination of outsourcing and mass immigration has absolutely decimated the wages and job prospects of the poor and working classes in these countries -- and its only happening because the corporations want cheap labour. they don't give a crap about living standards.

    mass immigration is just not needed. it is a disaster for britain. its a disaster for the poor and working classes -- but even the middle classes are suffering. because of the saturated job market every graduate job has over 50 applicants.

    china seems to be getting on very well without mass immigration. imagine if china opened up its borders? how would its own chinese people ever become richer if all they were doing was competing with the immigrants for jobs and resources.
    Western European populations have had ample opportunity to vote for socialist parties that advocated nationalizing all these industries so that outsourcing could not happen. Naturally labour costs would have been higher had this happened. In the 1980s they for the most part voted AGAINST this and tacitly gave their political approval to neoliberal economics. In a globalized economy if your nation happens to have higher labour costs you need to have an advantage in terms of productivity per unit currency otherwise what can be outsourced will be outsourced. Western European populations had the opportunity to exclusively buy locally-manufacted goods or locally-derlivered services but they did not. They did not favour local companies over multinational companies.

    China and India are not comparable because both countries' populations are HIGHER than those of Western Europe. In India (and increasingly China's) case there is completely free movement of labour to capital - so for example - there is no restriction on a Kashmiri moving from Srinagar to Mumbai, even if he/she is completely unable to speak in the local language (Marathi). There has been hardly any opposition to the freedom of labour or capital migration between the different Indian states despite the often large disparity in GDP per capita between them. Both of these nations' economies have been growing at an excess of 6% per annum over the previous decade.
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    (Original post by Free.Help)
    Agreed. Admittedly I read the daily mail, no for the news but usually the gossip bit. I do look at the headlines online though, and laugh out loud at some of the blantent racist, ignorant and elitist bull they print. I used to think very few people where stupid enough to believe this, and it's only a small minority who would read such a thing.

    I'm not so sure anymore, everytime I see a story about 'bogus asylum seekers' or some other crap, there's 1000's of commonts, and the top ones are always something racist, which has 2000 likes.

    There was a story a few days ago in the Daily Mail about a baby being painted in chocolate and an 'afro' hair-do to mock an African footballer. One comment said people who complained are stupid, and it was a funny joke and not at all racist. It had 2000 likes :eek:

    I know many people wouldn't agree with this, but too many people do...
    its just unbelievable the level of hate is just astounding you can almost feel the hate dragging you in to their mindset just watch this video its a perfect description of all those kinds of papers.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2rBDoCj2Gg
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    (Original post by dartanoir)
    I moved here with my parents 5 years ago because my dad was asked to fill in a job position that they just couldn't find anyone qualified enough for - yes it was a quite well paying position but the fact is they had to bring in someone from another country to fill it in just shows something. Also my mum started by working in a charity shop to improve her language (which is what many immigrants do), then worked at a pub as a cleaner (had to be at her job for 5am, absolute minimum wages) and then started working in a care home (which is actually currently struggling to find employees due to the demeaning nature of the work). My dad is now running his own business and my mum's a senior carer. They worked their ****ing asses off to get where they are now. There seems to be a misconception that jobs are handed over to immigrants on a silver plate when in reality they have to work hard.
    Yes I am quite a bit more ambitious and currently pursuing a law degree but I believe I'm just as entitled to then get a high paying job as my english counterparts as I too have been working hard.
    As regards to health care - I'm not really sure how to whole tax/NHS thing/benefits system works exactly but you know we pay taxes and don't claim any benefits.
    Obviously there are people in our community that abuse the benefit system but they are looked down upon by other immigrants as it gives us a bad name.
    it doesn't matter how much you contribute to the country and try to better yourself to help others these kinds of newspapers just print blind hate making up excuses as they go along choosing who is British and who isn't. you don't need to try and jump through their hoops because they will just try and find another way in which they can try and cast you out because they have no moral compass or any principles they are just the voice of the average c***.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    I would say they also often get the best jobs that most of the indigenous people may want.

    For example when I worked in the Netherlands I worked at a company where over 50% of revenue-generating employees were migrant men. In fact when considered as individual nationalities, American men, Chinese men, Indian men and Russian men outnumbeered Dutch women in ABSOLUTE numerical terms (i.e. not just in terms of their proportion of the local population).

    Also those 'guys at club toilets' who you mention are quite likely to have more than one job (i.e - one they do during the day). Supposing they were unable to cover their costs, they probably would cut their losses and move elsewhere. Speaking as a migrant man - nobody intends to make a lossmaking move or put up with it for long supposing they accidentally do make such a move.
    I never said that immigrants would be exclusively in low paid jobs though. But it is often the case-it may well be often the case they get high paying jobs.
    And I'm not saying those guys at clubs toilets make a loss:confused: And they obviously don't use that as their main job but would a person on £30 an hour do that? I really doubt it. Thats just one example of many.

    We can look at exceptions but my point was a pretty fair one IMO-the whole "they took our jobs" is not accurate.
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    (Original post by jama mj)
    its just unbelievable the level of hate is just astounding you can almost feel the hate dragging you in to their mindset just watch this video its a perfect description of all those kinds of papers.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2rBDoCj2Gg
    Haha LOVE it!
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    Mass immigration I don't agree with. Controlled I do.

    Immigration is good for this country. The same people that winge on about "bloody immigrants taking our jobs" are the same people that wouldn't do the jobs that they do!

    Would much rather have a bunch of hard working polish in this country then the scumbags who sit on the dole doing nothing, the lower working classes. They're the ones that kick up a fuss, without knowing anything. Really boils my blood.
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    Generally because of the lack of integration. Go to Glasgow and you'll see a much more relaxed attitude to immigration purely because of the Scottish pride that many immigrants have, which I think many people who come to England don't have. Also, they don't seem to quite understand that immigrants have gone through hell and back and all they want is a fair chance at life.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Western European populations have had ample opportunity to vote for socialist parties that advocated nationalizing all these industries so that outsourcing could not happen. Naturally labour costs would have been higher had this happened. In the 1980s they for the most part voted AGAINST this and tacitly gave their political approval to neoliberal economics. In a globalized economy if your nation happens to have higher labour costs you need to have an advantage in terms of productivity per unit currency otherwise what can be outsourced will be outsourced. Western European populations had the opportunity to exclusively buy locally-manufacted goods or locally-derlivered services but they did not. They did not favour local companies over multinational companies.

    China and India are not comparable because both countries' populations are HIGHER than those of Western Europe. In India (and increasingly China's) case there is completely free movement of labour to capital - so for example - there is no restriction on a Kashmiri moving from Srinagar to Mumbai, even if he/she is completely unable to speak in the local language (Marathi). There has been hardly any opposition to the freedom of labour or capital migration between the different Indian states despite the often large disparity in GDP per capita between them. Both of these nations' economies have been growing at an excess of 6% per annum over the previous decade.

    you talk as if democracy gives people an actual voice on what they want -- or that corporations actually come and and say what they are up to.

    the point about china is very simple. its OWN people are doing the jobs that are being created which is actually making the average chinese person richer. it makes no difference the population size. the same process would happen if you have country of a million people as opposed to 1.5 billion.
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    Simple, If you have different languages dominating your native language...No native would be happy..However, the government is a lunatic though...They abolish PSW (2 years work visa) scheme for international students, but provide benefits to asylum seekers. I know many immigrants who don't go to work at all, but they are really rich back home....I wonder why??? Native British ppl are entitled to be angry on them.

    I am a final year First class BA Accounting and Finance international student...I pay £10K per year (£30k for the full course) and I'm not even getting a 3 month internship, despite getting a 79.75% in year 2. Before coming to UK, I honestly believed I will get some work experience before going back home, but the future looks bleak now...Whereas, some students who started with me have claimed Asylum and are laughing at me....And my relatives are pushing me to get an asylum...But that is the last thing I would do...

    The way government is being run would only worsen UK economy and allow more illegal immigrants and block genuine students
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    (Original post by Free.Help)
    Haha LOVE it!
    hilarious wasn't it.
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    (Original post by Free.Help)
    Haha LOVE it!
    he's a joker
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    (Original post by rolos12345)
    you talk as if democracy gives people an actual voice on what they want -- or that corporations actually come and and say what they are up to.

    the point about china is very simple. its OWN people are doing the jobs that are being created which is actually making the average chinese person richer. it makes no difference the population size. the same process would happen if you have country of a million people as opposed to 1.5 billion.
    China has in excess of 1.3 billion residents. And many of the newly created jobs are being performed by migrants from the rural regions who are now working in urban centres. Given the size of China this is essentially equivalent to a Spanish person moving to Denmark.
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    I don't believe there hated as individuals, its just that the indigenous population feel that it is not England anymore, and how great the country once was (great healthcare, housing, jobs available, proud history etc) However, this is not their fault, its the idiots who run this country sitting up in there ivory towers, who are just interested in keeping their job and paycheck and not doing whats right for the country/people.

    Someone once told me this: You live in a village, all who live in that village put equal money into a pot. An individual who lives in that village needs access to the pot of money for an operation, so the village folk say ok thats fine. This applies to anyone in that village who contribute to the pot. Then one day an outsider comes in and starts stealing from the pot of money. how would you feel?
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    It's not all immigrants, it's lowskilled immigrants, and the fact that as a consequence of millions of them coming here, wages are down to rock bottom. **** it, there's no point explaining it to someone who thinks it's 'racist' to talk about gangs of Pakistani Muslim paedophiles. No ****ing wonder the problem was swept under the carpet for years with attitudes like yours commonplace in the police and local authorities.
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    (Original post by Free.Help)
    Fair enough. But the number is really low to be honest, kind of embarrassingly low considering what other countries, both eastern and western take each year .

    I suppose though I do see in newspapers the scare mongering about immigrantion so I can't really blame people for believing it.

    But wasn't this whole eroson of the so called British culture come around before this whole immigrantion thing? I'm not too sure, but I think becuase British people are changing, some people see it as letting out culture go i.e. the good ol' days?

    I know when I lived in an Eastern country, while I obeyed their laws and culture, I still kept my own British culture through speaking English, drinking, listening to British/western music etc. I think everyone does, espcially when you have no choice and can never return, would feel homesick and want to retain some of thier orginal culture.
    Please let me know when countries like Afghanistan, Mexico, Japan, etc start accepting mass immigration of British people.
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    Mass immigration I don't agree with. Controlled I do.

    Immigration is good for this country. The same people that winge on about "bloody immigrants taking our jobs" are the same people that wouldn't do the jobs that they do!

    Would much rather have a bunch of hard working polish in this country then the scumbags who sit on the dole doing nothing, the lower working classes. They're the ones that kick up a fuss, without knowing anything. Really boils my blood.
    Know what boils my blood? The fact that thanks to your beloved Poles and other assorted nationalities coming here in hundreds of thousands, if not millions, over the last 10 years, wages for lowskilled jobs have been driven down to the bare minimum. Not that there's many jobs left to go round, once again thanks to immigration. True controlled immigration would mean only letting high skilled workers in, doctors, lawyers, people in jobs we need doing rather than bringing in another wave of fruit pickers and toilet cleaners next year. Yeah, did you know the Poles are now worried about Romanians and Bulgarians undercutting them in the job market? :rolleyes:
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    This country is too small, this country will start to lose money if more immigrants come in...


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