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    Hi all, current secondary pgce maths student, please help!

    Had an eye-opening meeting after school last night.

    The course tutor was called in. I was under the impression that I could move schools if I wanted to (current second placement is taking 1hr30 to get there), and I was willing to wait up to a year for that to be sorted. I now know that that wasn't the case! Apparently the only way I can move is If I get thrown out of the school - madness! I repeatedly said I would be willing to defer until a suitable placement was found, but the tutor has got it in for me. He is intent on making my life a misery by forcing me to stay at the school If I am to complete the course - a place which is too far away resulting in me struggling with workload and the staff have had enough of me as a result.

    I am still in dis-belief at the way I was spoken to in this meeting which lasted 3 hours. I was treated like a kid, told that I was whinging, finding negatives for everything, and have a negative attitude. I was told to put up with all the problems and that others on the course (may!) have similar issues (not one of them has a 1hr30 journey time, I am sure). There was constant mention of others on the course - I don't care I need to sort my own problems out you idiot!

    When I complained about being banned from using textbooks, powerpoints, video clips etc I was told that I should fit in with the department, and listen to experienced teachers (the ones advising me are all under 30) and basically, as with everything, "put up with it". In my view I should be allowed to teach a lesson how I want and see what went well etc, not have to have both arms tied behind my back for the entire duration. It is bad enough having them sit in the back watching you, without them dictating what you can and can't do.

    I was criticised for not talking enough to pupils during lessons I was observing (which was deliberate by me, seek to understand before being understood). I was told I "showed no evidence of being prepared to put in the work necessary to become a competent teacher" - I worked hard in placement 1, passed everything assignments and all, and told I could make a success of teaching, so this is bull. I was told I needed to "demonstrate an interest in wanting to teach children" - how the hell would I get on the course if I didn't have this?

    I am willing to put the work in but not in stupid conditions e.g. too far away, hands tied behind my back, staff talking about me behind my back - How the heck am I supposed to work as a team there when this is going on?

    so sick and tired of my placement school and the provider, and I will name and shame them if necessary. Certainly if my dream of being a great, succesful teacher is derailed by these idiots I will do everything possible to let as many people as I can know what a dreadful time I had. Thinking of making a formal complaint about the tutor as well.
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    I am going to be blunt. It is YOU who sounds like the PGCE nightmare. If you don't start to cooperate immediately you will be failed by your school mentor or your university tutor or both. If John Mullen is your real name, there is every chance someone in your school or university will see these posts and this may well result in a written warning or worse for unprofessional conduct. I strongly recommend you do not follow through your threat to name and shame anyone and hope you see sense and delete some of these posts. I have not quoted you for this reason.
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    You sound massively arrogant. You have to teach in a versatile way so tying your hands is a good test. Some of my old teachers came from places 1hr 30 mins away, every day, 5 days a week for years! It's not ideal but such is life, if you want to be a teacher you're going to have to deal with it! I think you were spoken to like a child because that reflects the way you act, if your meeting sounded anything like this post you will have put yourself across in a bad way, you sound like you whinge and almost certainly have a negative attitude.
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    Completely agree with the other two posters. I am sick of seeing your name on this forum, complaining in the same way on each one, you even tried to put off people who are due to start their PGCE.

    You have several problems which you need to address:

    1/ Get off your high horse. At no good school are you going to be allowed to teach 'how you want'. I read that you don't want to do several key aspects of teaching, including differentiation! If you cannot see the merit in making the learning accessible to all students in your class then you need to reflect on how much you understand about teaching. I asked in a previous thread how you actually want to teach, which you didn't reply to. As far as I can tell you simply want to lecture them?

    2/ The teaching is about the students' learning, not about you! Especially at placement two all of your planning and resources should focus on ow the students are learning, not about how you want to do things.

    3/ You mentioned that the experienced teachers were mostly under 30, suggesting that they aren't experienced. However they are! They have had more experience in teaching and they will be better teachers. Listen and learn from them.

    4/ Of course the uni isn't going to bend over backwards to try and get you a new placement. That is your placement! Stop whinging and get on with it. Many people have travelling times similar to yours, and I know of two people that were in my PGCE group that had longer travel times than yours. Stop using it as an excuse for the lack of effort you are putting in.

    5/ This placement is not your first placement. You cannot say 'well I did so and so in the other school so I am going to do it this way'. No, you have to fit into your placement school, not the other way around. Fair enough if you secure a job then you can change a few things, maybe teach a bit more like how you want, but you still have to demonstrate some teaching ability (which does involve all the things you think are pointless).

    There are probably a few more things but that is enough. To be frank, you annoy me. People have given up their time to help you by replying to your whinging posts in a constructive manner, but they are too patient with you. Sort yourself out, knuckle down and improve as a teacher, or leave the profession.
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    I haven't started my PGCE yet, but you only have to read the TES or its forums for 5 minutes to realise that there is a lot to put up with in teaching that you will not like or think is for the benefit of pupils. All prospective teachers should be aware of this before they start training if they have done their research (the TES is by far the biggest primary/secondary education magazine in this country and I'm surprised there are students who haven't come across it before starting a PGCE or any route into teaching for that matter).

    While it does sound as your school is being somewhat unreasonable, there isn't really any excuse for going into the teaching profession not aware that you will have to do a lot of things that you won't enjoy. Furthermore pretty much every university that provides teaching courses expects you to travel to a school pretty much anywhere in the uni's county every day. This is no secret and is far from unique to your university.

    On the plus side, this does sound like a frustrating placement and I would say that if you go on to become a teacher you shouldn't expect it to always be this bad. On the minus side, however, all forms of employment (not just teaching) involve being told what to do to a lesser or greater extent, and if you can't handle such a lack of freedom in your teaching, I would suggest pursuing teaching in the independent sector where the restrictions on a teacher's input are far less strict, and if you can't handle being told what to do full stop, enter self-employment, because in employment your boss is always going to tell you what to do and restrict your freedom to some extent in deciding how you do it.
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    We are seeing way too many of these threads from you! I appreciate you are going through a hard time and feel coming here you will be speaking to likeminded people, but there's not much we can do. If you hate it that much please just quit! For your sake above anything else!
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    (Original post by tthwma)
    Completely agree with the other two posters. I am sick of seeing your name on this forum, complaining in the same way on each one, you even tried to put off people who are due to start their PGCE.

    You have several problems which you need to address:

    1/ Get off your high horse. At no good school are you going to be allowed to teach 'how you want'. I read that you don't want to do several key aspects of teaching, including differentiation! If you cannot see the merit in making the learning accessible to all students in your class then you need to reflect on how much you understand about teaching. I asked in a previous thread how you actually want to teach, which you didn't reply to. As far as I can tell you simply want to lecture them?

    2/ The teaching is about the students' learning, not about you! Especially at placement two all of your planning and resources should focus on ow the students are learning, not about how you want to do things.

    3/ You mentioned that the experienced teachers were mostly under 30, suggesting that they aren't experienced. However they are! They have had more experience in teaching and they will be better teachers. Listen and learn from them.

    4/ Of course the uni isn't going to bend over backwards to try and get you a new placement. That is your placement! Stop whinging and get on with it. Many people have travelling times similar to yours, and I know of two people that were in my PGCE group that had longer travel times than yours. Stop using it as an excuse for the lack of effort you are putting in.

    5/ This placement is not your first placement. You cannot say 'well I did so and so in the other school so I am going to do it this way'. No, you have to fit into your placement school, not the other way around. Fair enough if you secure a job then you can change a few things, maybe teach a bit more like how you want, but you still have to demonstrate some teaching ability (which does involve all the things you think are pointless).

    There are probably a few more things but that is enough. To be frank, you annoy me. People have given up their time to help you by replying to your whinging posts in a constructive manner, but they are too patient with you. Sort yourself out, knuckle down and improve as a teacher, or leave the profession.
    Practically word-for-word what I was going to say.
    as for when you said:
    Certainly if my dream of being a great, succesful teacher
    , from all i can see of your posts you are NOT going to be a successful teacher because you are trying to teach in a way that makes YOUR life easier: not assessing their learning (i/e not using AFL) you are not helping them.
    Either change your attitude, or leave. You carry on like this, you will not only harm yourself but you will harm the children you are teaching.
    Maybe a bit harsh, but that is the way of teaching.
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    On your other post you mention you have had to hand back classes to their normal teacher because you haven't planned - no wonder they're talking about you behind your back! Plan on the train, think about the impact you are having on the department and the kids listen to the advice you are being given and buck up!
    Frankly, I find the fact that you don't want to differentiate lazy. You have a duty of care to the kids, and as someone that works with SEN kids I can tell you differentiation makes a huge difference. You are depriving those children of a chance to progress in the curriculum due to lack of understanding and ultimately you are having an impact on their self esteem.
    You are being given the advice you have been given for a reason, listen to your tutor and your placement school. They are not people who are doing this because they hate you, they're doing it to make sure you can be a good teacher and that the kids are being given the best education possible. At the end of the day it is them that are importat and the reason people go into teaching.
    Spend less time on here and more time planning lessons and following advice
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    I'm not sure this thread went quite the way the OP intended ...
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    Thanks for comments guys, i'm not going to argue with any of you.

    Let's just open our eyes to teacher training in general here. Yes it is a job with incredible responsibility, demanding, etc. but should we really have students who enter these courses with the best of intentions working from 6am until the early hours? It just seems bonkers. I know it is made clear by people that it is massive hard work, but I never expected it to be this bad. It certainly wasn't this bad on the first placement, and was bearable, but this is just ridiculous. Giving people enormous journeys is another kick in the teeth.

    I never had any doubt I wanted to teach, I am excellent at my subject, and I even had a pupil the other day who said: "Sir, I liked your lesson yesterday". Why do promising individuals who have potential to make a success of teaching have to go through such a dreadful time, with no work/life balance and a lack of sleep. This ultimately effects their performance, and it is just a joke. Students get kicked around and walked all over, and if that is how it has to be then I don't want to be part of it. Some may be happy to be treated in such an awful manner, but I have got sense, and know when something just can't carry on.

    Instead of the government throwing vast sums of money on bursaries and advertising on getting people to train, they should look at this whole issue of shortage subjects and ask, why is there this shortage? Is teacher training really appropriate in its current form? there are so many of us who never make it into teaching because of this rubbish that goes on, and these are all people like myself who could have been a real success story. There are endless stories about placements and providers making students lives a misery and it is just a joke.

    People talk as if our education system is the best in the world as well, which is laughable, and that everything we do works - not the case. Nobody is 'outstanding' until the system is the best in the world, and i am afraid with such awful conditions on the job itself and training, we will never be in this position, and the shortage of mathematics teachers in partciular will just grow and grow and grow.
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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    Instead of the government throwing vast sums of money on bursaries and advertising on getting people to train, they should look at this whole issue of shortage subjects and ask, why is there this shortage?
    The problem with shortage subjects is NOT the teacher training process, but that there are other professions out there which entice people in with higher wages and different job prospects. These other professions attract people who specialise in shortage subjects - eg. Maths, if someone had the choice of going in to banking or going in to teaching they are likely to choose banking due to the higher wage.

    Thia is why there is a shortage, adding a financial incentive is the best they can do to overcome that.
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    (Original post by John Mullen)
    Thanks for comments guys, i'm not going to argue with any of you.

    Let's just open our eyes to teacher training in general here. Yes it is a job with incredible responsibility, demanding, etc. but should we really have students who enter these courses with the best of intentions working from 6am until the early hours? It just seems bonkers. I know it is made clear by people that it is massive hard work, but I never expected it to be this bad. It certainly wasn't this bad on the first placement, and was bearable, but this is just ridiculous. Giving people enormous journeys is another kick in the teeth.

    I never had any doubt I wanted to teach, I am excellent at my subject, and I even had a pupil the other day who said: "Sir, I liked your lesson yesterday". Why do promising individuals who have potential to make a success of teaching have to go through such a dreadful time, with no work/life balance and a lack of sleep. This ultimately effects their performance, and it is just a joke. Students get kicked around and walked all over, and if that is how it has to be then I don't want to be part of it. Some may be happy to be treated in such an awful manner, but I have got sense, and know when something just can't carry on.

    Instead of the government throwing vast sums of money on bursaries and advertising on getting people to train, they should look at this whole issue of shortage subjects and ask, why is there this shortage? Is teacher training really appropriate in its current form? there are so many of us who never make it into teaching because of this rubbish that goes on, and these are all people like myself who could have been a real success story. There are endless stories about placements and providers making students lives a misery and it is just a joke.

    People talk as if our education system is the best in the world as well, which is laughable, and that everything we do works - not the case. Nobody is 'outstanding' until the system is the best in the world, and i am afraid with such awful conditions on the job itself and training, we will never be in this position, and the shortage of mathematics teachers in partciular will just grow and grow and grow.
    You do spend your PGCE constantly working because you are perfecting your craft and it is very difficult! I haven't read all your posts but from what the others are saying it sounds like you could do with reflecting on yourself as a teacher and this placement so far. Why aren't you working efficiently- why can't you plan effectively, do you have examples to look at? Why can't you ask other teachers for advice, if the teaching is so strict then what are they doing? Be critical, don't blame others, you've always got to think about what YOU could do next.

    You can't do anything about your journey or it's length so that's something you've just got to get on with, to put it in perspective, I had a friend on my PGCE who had a 1 hour journey, 3 children and a household to run, she completed her course and gained a teaching post almost straight away! If she can do it, anybody can. There is a certain element of 'sucking it up'.

    Instead of doubting our education systems or debating the shortage of teachers think about you! What do you need to do and how can you do it in the most efficient way possible?
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    I am happy to have found this thread! I was thinking of applying for teacher's training, I have taught for over 20 years as a French teacher, including becomin Course Manager of a large FE college in South London. I am French, I love teaching, I had an average of 85% pass rate over my 10 years at the said college, excellent retention and progression. I was awarded a 'beacon award' by the board of governors twice, still have letters from stufents and managers praising me and my teaching.... However, on a whim of policy change, the college re-structured and I was asked to reapply for my job, but I would only have been appointed to a .5 contract instead of the .75 I was doing. Unfortunately, my teaching qualification (I had done a C&G7306 as advised and required when I started teaching!) is no longer considered good enough.... I was so disheartened by repeated redundancies and the precarious nature of my career, I even quit teaching for 7 years, becoming an administrator, but I miss teaching, I love teaching!!! I know I am good at it!!! I can work 24 / 7 for my students! And since I have been made redundant again (I obviously pick the right jobs!) I thought maybe I could go back to teaching and do a PGCE - I have a French licence, a british 1st class honours BA and an MA... so although I know I would probably struggle a bit having to 'start again' at the bottom, I had finally convinced myself I could get through it and that it was all worth it.....

    Until I read this thread and remembered...... teachers are vile! unhelpful, rude, lack compassion, will kick you in the groin in you fall, will accuse you of being your own problem and, like some have demonstrated here, expect you to roll over and ask for more when you are being bullied by management, expected to do tricks you would not even consider asking a dog to perform! Work for no money and no thanks!!! They will always come up with stories about their friends who have children and are single parents and have a 5 hours journey to their placement... and they would have us believe that they 'care' about the kids they teach..... ah ah ah - the joke!!!

    Yes, one has to adapt and accept some 'inconvenience' when on training, but being bullied is NOT OK, not even when it is between teachers!!!

    So thank you all for reminding me of the worst aspect of the education world here! The teachers....
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    Early mornings, late finishes, no sleep... welcome to the world of education.

    There will be times on placement where you'll just have to 'suck it up'. In a few months it will all be over and once you have passed and you have a job, you'll have some more flexibility to do things in your own way.

    You've just got to learn to play the game; keep the school and your uni tutor on side, get through it.

    90 minutes travel is not unacceptable; most universities will advise that your placement can be within this time frame.
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    It gets easier. We just have to get through this year. We jump their hoops, we follow their rules and then we're off to teach using our own methods. I commuted for two hours each way during placement one and used that time to do teacherly things. It was incredibly useful time for me.

    Put your big boy pants on, dig in and jump those hoops with a smile on your face. Not for you, do it for the children you're teaching and the future pupils. Listen to your department and the teachers around you and take the advice of your university. They've jumped these hoops too and they understand how hard it it. It isn't supposed to be easy, but it is manageable and you'll make your life easier by working with teachers to get the support and tips you need to succeed. They can tell you how to differentiate without being awake all night and how certain things can be used in a certain way to make things better.
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    Suck it up, theres no reason you should be up till the early hours if youre organised.
    I am in school all day from 7:30, i use my frees to plan and mark, then go home around 4ish, take an hour break for a cuppa and a quick chat with my husband, and then go up and plan/mark/ write assignments until about 8 and declare a cut off. If i dont get everything done then thats that because you need to give your brain a break. I have friday nights and all day saturday off to hang out with friends and my husband and work for about 4 hours on a sunday to make sure everything is sorted for the following week.
    Its a case of using time effectively and staying organised and the year can be alot easier. Just dont get distracted during frees, use them to your advantage and there should be no reason to complain about unearthly hours in the morning.
    But perhaps thats coming from a 29 year old with alot of experience in the working world before i moved to teaching.
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    Hello, what did you do in the end?
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    (Original post by DeepSilo)
    Hello, what did you do in the end?
    The OP last visited TSR in March 2013.
 
 
 
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