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There is very little need for feminism in the UK Watch

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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    What? Because of society? Now a Mother usually works too, but part time so are you on drugs? It's because of paternal instincts, if you haven't realized once a woman has a baby her child comes first and her career comes second, if you disagree with that you shouldn't even try having children. Working sixty hours a week is okay until you have a family, if you want them to even be close to semi functional, feminist parents are probably the worst!

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    Please look up the word paternal.
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    (Original post by madders94)
    I like how the feminists have all gone mysteriously quiet after some of the fantastic posts showing that sexism works both ways on this page of the thread
    I've personally been enjoying Captain Haddock's posts and have nothing to add to them.
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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    Okay that's fair but considering signs like that are commonplace in slut walks, it's quite a clear sign they actually believe that. Posted from TSR Mobile
    And that is why I disagree with them. Just because I consider myself a feminist does not mean I agree with everything a certain feminist has said or done - I personally disagree with a lot of things Germaine Greer said, for example.


    (Original post by jreid1994)
    The absolute ironic nature of a sight Like everyday sexism, is it's ONLY for women.

    It's hilarious if you think about it really, a sight that is anti sexism that excludes men from talking! Posted from TSR Mobile
    Everyday sexism was specifically set up by a woman for women who experience sexism - if men wanted to set one up, there's nothing to prevent them from doing so. And as a matter of fact, I've seen males posting in everydaysexism, and nobody has blasted them for doing so.



    (Original post by jreid1994)
    Well since they pretty much deny the fact that female pedophiles exist, and as for the statistics: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14748273 it's 1/4 not 1/3, but it's probably because of the fact that women are untrusting of men I think I can definitely thank feminism for that Posted from TSR Mobile
    OK, so you have the statistics, I see your point, that is something that should be addressed - but I don't see how you can blame feminism for that? Feminism did not make women untrusting of men, and I don't think that's why there are less male primary school teachers. And of course female paedophiles exist - I have yet to meet anyone who identifies themselves as a feminist who has denied the existence of female paedophiles, and if I did, I would be very quick to denounce them as clearly A) stupid, B) misinformed and C) sexist.


    (Original post by jreid1994)
    I have read feminist literate, I really don't appreciate it's social and political angle, it reminds me of Marxism in all honesty, and I do find that it blames men for all worldly problems. It's quite misandric and uses the word patriarchy without completely explaining it, patriarchal gender roles weren't just forcing women into a certain family role but men too. Posted from TSR Mobile
    Out of curiosity, and I really don't want to sound nasty, I genuinely want to know, what feminist literature did you read? Again, there are different brands of feminism and some feminists I totally don't agree with - for example, radical feminism. Were you reading up on Marxist feminism, it might be why you drew parallels? If you don't agree with feminism in modern day Britain, then I respect your opinion, but surely you can see it's needed elsewhere in the world?



    (Original post by jreid1994)
    When you say equal, you do realize there will never be 100% equality because men and women aren't exactly the same water and bread aren't equal most things aren't equal but what you mean in reality is instead of equal but equally respected (which women pretty much are really to be fair).
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    I already stated that - but I don't believe women are really equally respected. I also believe that there are times when men are disrespected in comaprison to women. For example, the whole gender bias when it comes to sex - women who sleep around are sluts. And then when it comes to men, men do tend to get shafted badly in custody cases in court - whilst I think a lot depends on these cases, for example who will be the most competent parent, what does the child want etc, men do tend to get shafted here and it's not always fair or right. I also think men's paternity leave is pretty dreadful.

    (Original post by jreid1994)
    And the bible has horrible things about women and men, in almost every part of the book, it's homophobic, allows slavery, murder in the name of "god", has examples of infanticide, happily talks about castration, and in war chapters, it basically goes: murder all the males and rape all the females and pillage the city in the name of the civilization that won the battle, women had it bad but don't think that men had this amazing life either. Posted from TSR Mobile
    My point, again, is that historically women have (as a general rule, I'm aware there are always exceptions) been worse off than men.
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    (Original post by madders94)
    I like how the feminists have all gone mysteriously quiet after some of the fantastic posts showing that sexism works both ways on this page of the thread
    Actually, I've been out of the house today, and have since replied - and also posted examples of how sexism works both ways.
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    (Original post by Ronove)
    Please look up the word paternal.
    Wrong word #Maternal#, okay? It's a bit pedantic calling this out considering you know women are more family oriented than men without non-instinctive social measurements. Something society, desperately needs. Being a father really don't mean that much anymore compared to being a mother because society and the legal courts pushed them away.

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    (Original post by Goody2Shoes-x)
    And that is why I disagree with them. Just because I consider myself a feminist does not mean I agree with everything a certain feminist has said or done - I personally disagree with a lot of things Germaine Greer said, for example.
    Andrea Dawkins, and S.C.U.M ect a lot of feminist angle is very hateful of men.

    (Original post by Goody2Shoes-x)
    Everyday sexism was specifically set up by a woman for women who experience sexism - if men wanted to set one up, there's nothing to prevent them from doing so. And as a matter of fact, I've seen males posting in everydaysexism, and nobody has blasted them for doing so.
    It literally is a sight for women, it don't say sexism experienced by women and men, it is almost as if the sight can't comprehend the idea that men face social prejudice too like prejudice faced by male primary school teachers, male nurses, male midwives, male nannies, ect.....

    (Original post by Goody2Shoes-x)
    OK, so you have the statistics, I see your point, that is something that should be addressed - but I don't see how you can blame feminism for that? Feminism did not make women untrusting of men, and I don't think that's why there are less male primary school teachers. And of course female paedophiles exist - I have yet to meet anyone who identifies themselves as a feminist who has denied the existence of female paedophiles, and if I did, I would be very quick to denounce them as clearly A) stupid, B) misinformed and C) sexist.
    But feminists really are untrusting of men.

    (Original post by Goody2Shoes-x)
    Out of curiosity, and I really don't want to sound nasty, I genuinely want to know, what feminist literature did you read? Again, there are different brands of feminism and some feminists I totally don't agree with - for example, radical feminism. Were you reading up on Marxist feminism, it might be why you drew parallels? If you don't agree with feminism in modern day Britain, then I respect your opinion, but surely you can see it's needed elsewhere in the world?
    Well I honestly have the perception from what I read anyway, that feminist literature does cater to quite left winged tendencies on the political scale, most feminists vote for particulary green party labor and communist parties, nothing wrong with that but it don't mean it's right either, I do think that feminists do have some good points, such as the fact that more men than women have powerful positions, these issues I do feel need to be addressed but not in the way feminists are, because women need to address problems that effect women and men, not just women's problems.

    For example legal perspectives: e.g rape, PIV rape (female victim) has been long recognized under law the same way as murder has, male on male rape was recognized in 1944 I believe and marital/cival partnership rape was recognized in 1994? But female on male rape still to this day is not recognized by the UK's legal definition, which is a bit scary in all honestly. Could you imagine if you got raped, and your friends laugh at you and all say you enjoyed it really(because all men think about is sex) and for the police to not be able to arrest the perpetrator on legal grounds? Quite spine chilling really.

    But for elsewhere? Yes I do, but we are talking about the UK, in places like Africa, and the middle east? Certainly, as a matter of fact if that was what feminism was actually addressing, I'd personally call myself a feminist as they would be helping.



    (Original post by Goody2Shoes-x)
    I already stated that - but I don't believe women are really equally respected. I also believe that there are times when men are disrespected in comaprison to women. For example, the whole gender bias when it comes to sex - women who sleep around are sluts. And then when it comes to men, men do tend to get shafted badly in custody cases in court - whilst I think a lot depends on these cases, for example who will be the most competent parent, what does the child want etc, men do tend to get shafted here and it's not always fair or right. I also think men's paternity leave is pretty dreadful.
    But flip the coin over and men that are virgins are perceived as losers, the parental courts make me want a vasectomy in all honesty. (Not that I'd be stupid enough to) paternal leave for men is quite bad but it would be rarely used even if it was equal, even in the countries with paternity leave equal to maternity leave, it's still largely unused. And I do respect women as much as men I'd assume that most people on this sight do too apart from a few chauvinists and man haters.

    (Original post by Goody2Shoes-x)
    My point, again, is that historically women have (as a general rule, I'm aware there are always exceptions) been worse off than men.
    Yes women did have a lot or problems historically, but you need to remember that men have faced issues aswell, such as being forced to fight in wars.

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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Yes I felt the need to follow up on your ploy statement. It was a stupid point, which you probably realise given your attempts to wiggle out of it with fidgety pedantic nonsense. A ploy. Really now.
    You still haven't provided reasons as to WHY it was; you're just saying it is, making out me saying there's a ploy means that I think "male feminists" are this or that, and then accusing ME of being pedantic, when I point out that you are putting words into my head.

    Are you seriously suggesting that the reason more men are in power is because of minute differences in average IQ? Is this really the level of discourse we're debating at?
    I'm not necessarily talking about AVERAGE I.Q.; I'm talking about I.Q.-DISTRIBUTIONS. Oh, and I also mentioned career choices; which I think are a far greater factor. You didn't have much to say about that one, though.

    Why are men and women pushed into performing certain roles?
    They're not; they CHOOSE to perform certain roles. I dare say that some people, somewhere, feel certain pressures; ANY demographic will have certain members, who feel SOME pressure, SOME time. YOU are the one making an assertion, and YOU are the one failing to provide evidence to back this up.

    What do you mean ignoring? I can be a member of the Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society but that doesn't mean I don't care about the plight of the Snow Leopard. Movements don't need to be all-inclusive nor do you have to only pick one.
    So, what is your opinion, on the men's issues raised?

    Men are more likely to be pushed/pressured into positions which result in those things while women are excluded from them. Simply put it's because of the same gender roles that feminists want to get rid of. But it isn't gender based oppression; it isn't because women occupy a more powerful position in our society and have historically oppressed men. It's more internalised. The men at the top exploit the men at the bottom. That makes it more of a class issue to me, something most feminists, being a generally left wing movement, are very much in tune with.
    So why is it working class MEN who suffer these problems, far more so than working class WOMEN? If it's a class issue?

    Why would I want to get into a debate about white privilege in the middle of a feminism thread? Start a new thread if that's what you want to talk about.
    I wondered the same thing, WHEN YOU BOUGHT UP THE ISSUE. Jesus.
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    (Original post by Goody2Shoes-x)
    Simply visit a site like everydaysexism and you'll see that sexual harassment in the workplace is actually quite common, and people are expected to accept it.
    So, how many cases does the site report? What percentage of the ENTIRE FEMALE WORKING POPULATION, does this then make victims of sexual harassment? How many MEN are victims of similar? Oh, hang on, the site doesn't even report on any men's issues? Right. Talk about being reactionary.....

    A) I don't think women and men are yet as equal as they could be (I don't know if they'll ever be 100% equal)
    Men and women aren't equal, by very definition; equal WORTH, sure, but not EQUAL. This constant talk of 'equality' seems rather naive. Most women don't WANT to be EQUAL, as in 'the same', as men. Masculinity and femininity are great drives in physical attraction.
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    (Original post by Goody2Shoes-x)
    Everyday sexism was specifically set up by a woman for women who experience sexism
    Which is exactly why it's nonsense, to draw conclusions from which; it is biased in its very nature. That's like setting up a site for WHITE victims of racism, and concluding from it that WHITE people suffer more racism.

    OK, so you have the statistics, I see your point, that is something that should be addressed - but I don't see how you can blame feminism for that? Feminism did not make women untrusting of men
    I say it certainly DID. It seems to exist largely for that purpose, whatever its claims may be. Can you even find a SINGLE feminist 'study', which doesn't conclude 'man = oppressor, woman = oppressed'? I mean, look at that article linked on the other thread, written by the girls who experienced heckling and insults at Glasgow University's Union. One of whom writes a massive article, talking about how common disrespect/misogyny towards women is, even "rape culture" from young men, and her main sources are from searching online?? So, because she finds several sites (or more, but she doesn't mention even vague numbers) online, out of BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of web pages, this means the world is misogynistic? I could find THOUSANDS of pages on beastiality, but it doesn't mean there's a 'beastiality culture' in our society. It's simply absurd, how feminists use these as 'evidence', along with making other claims WITHOUT evidence, or looking at things such as the 'wage gap', adamantly refusing to consider other factors which might contribute to which.

    Just seems like mindless scare/hatemongering, which is driven by a hatred of men/desire for female supremacy, which although by no means present in all feminists, has a 'trickle-down' factor.

    I already stated that - but I don't believe women are really equally respected. I also believe that there are times when men are disrespected in comaprison to women.My point, again, is that historically women have (as a general rule, I'm aware there are always exceptions) been worse off than men.
    'Google' news articles, reporting on women who have cut their partners' private parts off, and take a look at the responses of many of the people who comment on them; if that won't show you that disrespect towards men outweights that towards women, in certain areas, I don't know what will. Perhaps also 'Google' the same thing, relating to an American chatshow called 'The Talk', where you will find several female hosts LAUGHING at such a case, only last year. I'd challenge anyone to find where similar a plight in a woman, was ridiculed and laughed at, on a chatshow or similar.

    Then perhaps consider how Andy Gray and Richard Keys got sacked for making fun of a female linesman, OFF-AIR; and compare it to the comments the 'Loose Women' make about men, ON-AIR, on a near-daily basis, with no threat of being sacked.
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    (Original post by truffle_girl)
    You still haven't provided reasons as to WHY it was; you're just saying it is, making out me saying there's a ploy means that I think "male feminists" are this or that, and then accusing ME of being pedantic, when I point out that you are putting words into my head.
    Yeah because you've provided SO MUCH evidence for this 'ploy' idea, right? Do you think feminists convene at some kind of witch's sabbath to think of ways to trick men into supporting them? Or is it something they've come up with individually, at the same time? You're the one who suggested it's a ploy, why don't you prove it? It sounds to me like a cheap way to dismiss my point. "Feminism doesn't help men!" "actually it does" "yeah well that's just a ploy!" It's impossible to win.


    I'm not necessarily talking about AVERAGE I.Q.; I'm talking about I.Q.-DISTRIBUTIONS. Oh, and I also mentioned career choices; which I think are a far greater factor. You didn't have much to say about that one, though.

    They're not; they CHOOSE to perform certain roles. I dare say that some people, somewhere, feel certain pressures; ANY demographic will have certain members, who feel SOME pressure, SOME time. YOU are the one making an assertion, and YOU are the one failing to provide evidence to back this up.
    You're acting like human beings grow up in a cultural vacuum and that these choices are not affected by social norms and expectations. Maybe the fact that women were excluded from political participation for, y'know, all of human history up until last century has something to do with why politics is seen as a man's game and so few women choose to get into it. The laws may have changed but socialisation and gender roles are intergenerational, they don't just go away with the stroke of a pen. Why do you think males and females choose such different roles?

    So, what is your opinion, on the men's issues raised?



    So why is it working class MEN who suffer these problems, far more so than working class WOMEN? If it's a class issue?
    This is explained in the post that you quoted...

    I wondered the same thing, WHEN YOU BOUGHT UP THE ISSUE. Jesus.
    No I didn't. I mentioned white males and you took that as a cue to start a debate about oppression of black people and white privilege. This is just you picking up on a tiny part of my post and making a huge deal about it, which is all you seem to bloody do.
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    how many women does it take to change a lightbulb? lolzzzz
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    (Original post by truffle_girl)
    Which is exactly why it's nonsense, to draw conclusions from which; it is biased in its very nature. That's like setting up a site for WHITE victims of racism, and concluding from it that WHITE people suffer more racism.
    This. How can any intelligent person honestly disagree with this?
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    This. How can any intelligent person honestly disagree with this?
    Actually I'd say in this historically white and male dominated society, setting up an everyday sexism site exclusively for men would be more like setting up a site exclusively for white victims of racism and suggesting that white people are the predominant victims of racism. And we all know how most non-Daily Mail readers respond to those kind of people. To suggest that a women's sexism site would be like that is intellectually dishonest.
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    Is this an actual discussion? I mean, someone (a male, hilariously enough) has taken time out of their day to say feminists are wrong because of their 'poorly thought out arguments' and we have nothing to man about because 'there are no formal barriers'?

    Seriously?

    The patriarchy isn't a 'formal' barrier, its a social construct that favours the male. That is not to say that all feminists hate men (a common argument from feminist bashers, and not a very well thought out one, either - I quite like men every now & then, particularly those with feminist tendencies - yes, male feminists DO exist), it's a fight against the social barriers women face. Yes, it is 'illegal' to discriminate against a woman because of her gender when recruiting, but that doesn't stop it from happening. Yes, women have the right to be heard, but how many actually listen (there's an argument for the feminist movement right there). The 77.5% of UK MP's are male, who hears my voice? Who represents me (without even taking into account issues of class...)? I have a major issue with men debating whether or not I should decide if I have a child or not because they think abortion is 'wrong', IT'S MY WOMB!!! Men debating women's issues is ridiculous.

    Challenging gender stereotypes is another feminist issue. I recently visited a local college as part of an inspiring further education day, and I was exceptionally happy to see a female mechanic in one of the videos made for school children, giving them ideas about what they could be. Why should I be amazed? Because the traditional stereotypes say that women don't work on cars (from personal experience, we can, and do, well). Women are cooks, they work in offices, they bring up children. Social constructs tell us this, and that is one of the many things that feminism kicks back against.

    Show me a man that faces the same struggles as a woman and I shall consider rethinking my viewpoint, but until then, let us have this thing, eh guys? No one is saying that men have never faced problems, but unfortunately, society is somewhat biased towards the male, it's a fact, not sexist, just a fact. I don't like sexism if it is directed at a man or a woman, I'm not sure why so many people think that if you think people are sexist against a woman, then you don't get that it happens the other way too. Of course it does, feminism doesn't say it's one or the other. Admittedly, some women do hate men, just as some men hate women, but not all feminists are 'feminazis', they make up a very small proportion of the entire feminist movement. Feminism isn't a 'lets hate on men' thing, so brush that chip off your shoulder, fellas.

    Oh, and as an aside, why is it always men that say feminism is a load of rubbish? Humm?
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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    Is this an actual discussion? I mean, someone (a male, hilariously enough) has taken time out of their day to say feminists are wrong because of their 'poorly thought out arguments' and we have nothing to man about because 'there are no formal barriers'?

    Seriously?

    The patriarchy isn't a 'formal' barrier, its a social construct that favours the male. That is not to say that all feminists hate men (a common argument from feminist bashers, and not a very well thought out one, either - I quite like men every now & then, particularly those with feminist tendencies - yes, male feminists DO exist), it's a fight against the social barriers women face. Yes, it is 'illegal' to discriminate against a woman because of her gender when recruiting, but that doesn't stop it from happening. Yes, women have the right to be heard, but how many actually listen (there's an argument for the feminist movement right there). The 77.5% of UK MP's are male, who hears my voice? Who represents me (without even taking into account issues of class...)? I have a major issue with men debating whether or not I should decide if I have a child or not because they think abortion is 'wrong', IT'S MY WOMB!!! Men debating women's issues is ridiculous.

    Challenging gender stereotypes is another feminist issue. I recently visited a local college as part of an inspiring further education day, and I was exceptionally happy to see a female mechanic in one of the videos made for school children, giving them ideas about what they could be. Why should I be amazed? Because the traditional stereotypes say that women don't work on cars (from personal experience, we can, and do, well). Women are cooks, they work in offices, they bring up children. Social constructs tell us this, and that is one of the many things that feminism kicks back against.

    Show me a man that faces the same struggles as a woman and I shall consider rethinking my viewpoint, but until then, let us have this thing, eh guys? No one is saying that men have never faced problems, but unfortunately, society is somewhat biased towards the male, it's a fact, not sexist, just a fact. I don't like sexism if it is directed at a man or a woman, I'm not sure why so many people think that if you think people are sexist against a woman, then you don't get that it happens the other way too. Of course it does, feminism doesn't say it's one or the other. Admittedly, some women do hate men, just as some men hate women, but not all feminists are 'feminazis', they make up a very small proportion of the entire feminist movement. Feminism isn't a 'lets hate on men' thing, so brush that chip off your shoulder, fellas.

    Oh, and as an aside, why is it always men that say feminism is a load of rubbish? Humm?
    In my experience plenty of women hate on feminism too. And I have to say the fact that you apparently address this post to just men and apparently all men is a bit offensive. I also think it's silly to be so black and white about 'men shouldn't have a say in women's issues', or rather, even worse, what you say - 'men shouldn't be able to engage in debate on women's issues'.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    This. How can any intelligent person honestly disagree with this?
    Because I for one believe the horse belongs in front of the cart.
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    (Original post by Ronove)
    In my experience plenty of women hate on feminism too. And I have to say the fact that you apparently address this post to just men and apparently all men is a bit offensive. I also think it's silly to be so black and white about 'men shouldn't have a say in women's issues', or rather, even worse, what you say - 'men shouldn't be able to engage in debate on women's issues'.
    The sense I'm getting from most of what I've read is not at all uncommon to me. There are some valid points to be made against feminism - there are valid points to be made against almost all things. There are valid points to be made for it as well...

    The sense I'm getting though, is two-fold. Firstly, those who are entrenched in a view will remain firmly entrenched, making discussions of this sort utterly futile. There is no space in discussions such as these to debate the finer points, in which just about all things are made or broken - it's very much a "nut with a sledgehammer" situation... to generally unpleasant and ultimately futile and worthless ends.

    Secondly, there is a general view of feminism where, because most of the best known feminists are from the old brigade of 2nd wave radicals, the whole of feminism is tarred with that same brush, in spite of these people being a small but vocal minority. There is no sense of feminism as an ongoing discourse of an ever changing nature, but instead, it is viewed as a single minded push towards particular ends, characterised by views straight out of the 1970s
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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    Is this an actual discussion? I mean, someone (a male, hilariously enough) has taken time out of their day to say feminists are wrong because of their 'poorly thought out arguments' and we have nothing to man about because 'there are no formal barriers'?

    Seriously?

    The patriarchy isn't a 'formal' barrier, its a social construct that favours the male. That is not to say that all feminists hate men (a common argument from feminist bashers, and not a very well thought out one, either - I quite like men every now & then, particularly those with feminist tendencies - yes, male feminists DO exist), it's a fight against the social barriers women face. Yes, it is 'illegal' to discriminate against a woman because of her gender when recruiting, but that doesn't stop it from happening. Yes, women have the right to be heard, but how many actually listen (there's an argument for the feminist movement right there). The 77.5% of UK MP's are male, who hears my voice? Who represents me (without even taking into account issues of class...)? I have a major issue with men debating whether or not I should decide if I have a child or not because they think abortion is 'wrong', IT'S MY WOMB!!! Men debating women's issues is ridiculous.

    Challenging gender stereotypes is another feminist issue. I recently visited a local college as part of an inspiring further education day, and I was exceptionally happy to see a female mechanic in one of the videos made for school children, giving them ideas about what they could be. Why should I be amazed? Because the traditional stereotypes say that women don't work on cars (from personal experience, we can, and do, well). Women are cooks, they work in offices, they bring up children. Social constructs tell us this, and that is one of the many things that feminism kicks back against.

    Show me a man that faces the same struggles as a woman and I shall consider rethinking my viewpoint, but until then, let us have this thing, eh guys? No one is saying that men have never faced problems, but unfortunately, society is somewhat biased towards the male, it's a fact, not sexist, just a fact. I don't like sexism if it is directed at a man or a woman, I'm not sure why so many people think that if you think people are sexist against a woman, then you don't get that it happens the other way too. Of course it does, feminism doesn't say it's one or the other. Admittedly, some women do hate men, just as some men hate women, but not all feminists are 'feminazis', they make up a very small proportion of the entire feminist movement. Feminism isn't a 'lets hate on men' thing, so brush that chip off your shoulder, fellas.

    Oh, and as an aside, why is it always men that say feminism is a load of rubbish? Humm?
    As I began to think about what patriarchy meant, you know the patriarchy feminists always think of about fathers having rights over mothers considering women have far more rights over their child than men do especially in custody battles. Isn't that nice?

    So what has that got to do with patriarchy, because 2-300 years ago men would almost always win custody of the children, whereas now it is the opposite way around very UN-patriarchal, the pay gap would be a significant disadvantage to women until you think about Child support payments and alimony payments the vast vast majority of payments made by... Men. Again lovely, to think that men barely ever get to see their children and pay billions of pounds a year for child support, this brings me and probably you, right? tears of joy to know...

    No one on this thread has even mentioned abortions but don't you think that it's a little bit odd that in the 50 years that female contraception has been made they haven't been able to find one for men yet.... Hmmmm.... Or what about the fact that MGM is still largely practiced by society on babies without any anesthetic? That's cool huh? Or how about the fact that it's by legal definition anatomically impossible for a women to rape a man? In the UK a female forcing a male to have sex don't count as sexual assult that's great news and on top of that if he were to mention it to anyone he'd probably get laughed at and told he's a man so he enjoyed it Hahahaha too funny seriously you have to find this funny too!

    But this one takes the cake, what about the vast vast lack of support for male victims of domestic violence considering males make up 2/5 victims? Odd, considering research has been done into it and there's thousands of male domestic violence victims per a year and no support for them and the fact that male dv victims get laughed at or get the attitude that they deserved it that victim blame mentality that feminists speak of.... A bit unusual, don't you think?? But then again we shouldn't care they're men they oppress you so it's okay to hit them because they deserve it, right?

    It gets even more hilarious now, ten tines more men than women committed suicide between the ages of 25-35 for men, apart from car crashes, suicide is the most common form of death for men wonder why that might be?? Hmmmm...... This is the most awesome news you're ever going to hear men are constantly topping themselves because of the above factors, we have to laugh at this don't we?


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    (Original post by Ronove)
    In my experience plenty of women hate on feminism too. And I have to say the fact that you apparently address this post to just men and apparently all men is a bit offensive. I also think it's silly to be so black and white about 'men shouldn't have a say in women's issues', or rather, even worse, what you say - 'men shouldn't be able to engage in debate on women's issues'.
    Men debating women's issues without the input of women is ridiculous, I'm sorry you can't see that.

    I don't recall saying that all women love feminism, nor do I remember saying that all men should take note for they are sexist, it was a response to a post, written by, and agreed with by, a number of men.

    I'm sorry you so clearly misinterpreted my post, but I will not apologise for the tone or content.
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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    Is this an actual discussion? I mean, someone (a male, hilariously enough) has taken time out of their day to say feminists are wrong because of their 'poorly thought out arguments' and we have nothing to man about because 'there are no formal barriers'?

    Seriously?
    I think from the tone of just this first section we can see where this is going - "(a male, hilariously enough)" sums it up for me.

    The patriarchy isn't a 'formal' barrier, its a social construct that favours the male. That is not to say that all feminists hate men (a common argument from feminist bashers, and not a very well thought out one, either - I quite like men every now & then, particularly those with feminist tendencies - yes, male feminists DO exist), it's a fight against the social barriers women face. Yes, it is 'illegal' to discriminate against a woman because of her gender when recruiting, but that doesn't stop it from happening. Yes, women have the right to be heard, but how many actually listen (there's an argument for the feminist movement right there). The 77.5% of UK MP's are male, who hears my voice? Who represents me (without even taking into account issues of class...)? I have a major issue with men debating whether or not I should decide if I have a child or not because they think abortion is 'wrong', IT'S MY WOMB!!! Men debating women's issues is ridiculous.
    How is it the fault of men if women don't stand as an MP as often and don't get voted in as often? Perhaps women should try and become MPs more often, and have better policies so they're more likely to get voted in, rather than complaining that they lost because they're a woman? Pathetic argument. Feminists want to be just as strong, if not stronger, than men, and yet the second anything goes wrong, rather than taking it on the chin, they moan that it's a product of patriarchal privilege.

    So why are women allowed a say in men's custody battles? Surely that means a male judge should always preside over whether a father gets the right to see his children? And yes, it is your womb, so why can other women tell you what to do with it but men can't? Personally I don't want anyone telling me what to do with my body, regardless of their gender.

    Challenging gender stereotypes is another feminist issue. I recently visited a local college as part of an inspiring further education day, and I was exceptionally happy to see a female mechanic in one of the videos made for school children, giving them ideas about what they could be. Why should I be amazed? Because the traditional stereotypes say that women don't work on cars (from personal experience, we can, and do, well). Women are cooks, they work in offices, they bring up children. Social constructs tell us this, and that is one of the many things that feminism kicks back against.
    Men are soldiers, engineers, bus drivers. It works both ways; I'm curious as to why you highlighted the plight of women when feminists claim to be striving for equality. Men rarely end up as nannies or primary school teachers - not because they don't have the skills or the drive, but because there are also social barriers there; often created by the paranoid, over-protective "all men are paedophile rapist" brigade (funnily enough, these all tend to be women who identify as feminists. Well hey, if you can make statements like that, so can I). Where are the people fighting their corner?

    Show me a man that faces the same struggles as a woman and I shall consider rethinking my viewpoint, but until then, let us have this thing, eh guys? No one is saying that men have never faced problems, but unfortunately, society is somewhat biased towards the male, it's a fact, not sexist, just a fact. I don't like sexism if it is directed at a man or a woman, I'm not sure why so many people think that if you think people are sexist against a woman, then you don't get that it happens the other way too. Of course it does, feminism doesn't say it's one or the other. Admittedly, some women do hate men, just as some men hate women, but not all feminists are 'feminazis', they make up a very small proportion of the entire feminist movement. Feminism isn't a 'lets hate on men' thing, so brush that chip off your shoulder, fellas.
    Overwhelmingly, the majority of outspoken feminists do focus on male-on-female sexism, and rarely if ever mention female-on-male, or cisgender on non-cisgender (or vice versa) sexism, which is why this viewpoint persists that feminism is biased in the favour of women, which in turn contributes to feminism not being taken seriously. The name doesn't help; back when all women felt the repercussions of the sexism that existed in the UK, it was fine, but these days, when not every woman does feel discriminated against based on their gender - or they see that men are discriminated against too - something like egalitarianism/humanitarianism is a more all-encompassing phrase, which also makes it inclusive to men so that the shame of calling yourself a "male feminist" - and there is stigma attached to that, I've seen it on Tumblr - doesn't exist.

    Oh, and as an aside, why is it always men that say feminism is a load of rubbish? Humm?
    *raises hand* personally I believe that modern feminism is a dated concept and we need to modernize and stand up for everyone's right to be equal rather than one group in society who perceive themselves to be discriminated against. Basically a long winded way of saying that I think feminism as it stands is a load of rubbish - and I'm female.
 
 
 
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