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There is very little need for feminism in the UK Watch

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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    As I began to think about what patriarchy meant, you know the patriarchy feminists always think of about fathers having rights over mothers considering women have far more rights over their child than men do especially in custody battles. Isn't that nice?

    So what has that got to do with patriarchy, because 2-300 years ago men would almost always win custody of the children, whereas now it is the opposite way around very UN-patriarchal, the pay gap would be a significant disadvantage to women until you think about Child support payments and alimony payments the vast vast majority of payments made by... Men. Again lovely, to think that men barely ever get to see their children and pay billions of pounds a year for child support, this brings me and probably you, right? tears of joy to know...

    No one on this thread has even mentioned abortions but don't you think that it's a little bit odd that in the 50 years that female contraception has been made they haven't been able to find one for men yet.... Hmmmm.... Or what about the fact that MGM is still largely practiced by society on babies without any anesthetic? That's cool huh? Or how about the fact that it's by legal definition anatomically impossible for a women to rape a man? In the UK a female forcing a male to have sex don't count as sexual assult that's great news and on top of that if he were to mention it to anyone he'd probably get laughed at and told he's a man so he enjoyed it Hahahaha too funny seriously you have to find this funny too!

    But this one takes the cake, what about the vast vast lack of support for male victims of domestic violence considering males make up 2/5 victims? Odd, considering research has been done into it and there's thousands of male domestic violence victims per a year and no support for them and the fact that male dv victims get laughed at or get the attitude that they deserved it that victim blame mentality that feminists speak of.... A bit unusual, don't you think?? But then again we shouldn't care they're men they oppress you so it's okay to hit them because they deserve it, right?

    It gets even more hilarious now, ten tines more men than women committed suicide between the ages of 25-35 for men, apart from car crashes, suicide is the most common form of death for men wonder why that might be?? Hmmmm...... This is the most awesome news you're ever going to hear men are constantly topping themselves because of the above factors, we have to laugh at this don't we?


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    These are all separate issues to the ones I raised in my post, so I am unsure as to why you quoted me...
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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    Men debating women's issues without the input of women is ridiculous, I'm sorry you can't see that.

    I don't recall saying that all women love feminism, nor do I remember saying that all men should take note for they are sexist, it was a response to a post, written by, and agreed with by, a number of men.

    I'm sorry you so clearly misinterpreted my post, but I will not apologise for the tone or content.
    But you never specified "without the input of women", you simply said that men debating women's issues is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    Men debating women's issues without the input of women is ridiculous, I'm sorry you can't see that.

    I don't recall saying that all women love feminism, nor do I remember saying that all men should take note for they are sexist, it was a response to a post, written by, and agreed with by, a number of men.

    I'm sorry you so clearly misinterpreted my post, but I will not apologise for the tone or content.
    You said nothing about said men having no input from women when debating women's issues and neither did I.

    I never said you said either of those things.

    I didn't suggest you should apologise for anything.
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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    These are all separate issues to the ones I raised in my post, so I am unsure as to why you quoted me...
    Are you smoking meth? How... Just... Really?

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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    Are you smoking meth? How... Just... Really?

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    None of what you said was a response to any of what I said...! You raised a lot of points, without linking them to anything I said. You quoted me, then seeming went on a rant about other things, without linking any of it to what I said.
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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    None of what you said was a response to any of what I said...! You raised a lot of points, without linking them to anything I said. You quoted me, then seeming went on a rant about other things, without linking any of it to what I said.
    It's his 'thing'.
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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    None of what you said was a response to any of what I said...! You raised a lot of points, without linking them to anything I said. You quoted me, then seeming went on a rant about other things, without linking any of it to what I said.
    So basic anatomical rights and child courts and lack of male contraception is irrelevant to what you were talking about?? Your high. When you mentioned rights to abortion, that's fair, but come on, you don't think that these issues matter? If you don't then you probably laughed with me at the points I made.

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    (Original post by madders94)
    Men are soldiers, engineers, bus drivers. It works both ways; I'm curious as to why you highlighted the plight of women when feminists claim to be striving for equality. Men rarely end up as nannies or primary school teachers - not because they don't have the skills or the drive, but because there are also social barriers there; often created by the paranoid, over-protective "all men are paedophile rapist" brigade (funnily enough, these all tend to be women who identify as feminists. Well hey, if you can make statements like that, so can I). Where are the people fighting their corner?
    The barriers are different for men than for women. Men are pressured away from traditionally feminine roles because they are ridiculed for for doing 'girly' things; they're made fun of if they're seen to be doing anything feminine, because feminine = weak. It has nothing to do with the "all men are paedophile rapist" brigade, because that doesn't actually exist :shh:. On the other hand women are pushed away from masculine roles because historically they have been told they're too weak and ineffectual to do them. It's all to do with the way femininity is viewed in our society.
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    (Original post by Ronove)
    You said nothing about said men having no input from women when debating women's issues and neither did I.

    I never said you said either of those things.

    I didn't suggest you should apologise for anything.
    You said

    'I also think it's silly to be so black and white about 'men shouldn't have a say in women's issues', or rather, even worse, what you say - 'men shouldn't be able to engage in debate on women's issues'.',

    I looked over my post, I didn't say 'men shouldn't be able to engage in debate on women's issues'.

    Perhaps just a simple misunderstanding

    I listened to a radio programme the other day, that involved a lot of male MP's talking about 'women's issues'. I thought it ridiculous. What experience do they have of being a woman being as they were all men - it was the fist time I had ever really noticed this. A lot of legislation passed, is passed by males, without much input from women. Sure, debate away, but it is purely abstract if men are debating these issues. I also didn't say that I would prefer a woman to tell me what to do with my body. I agree, it's MY choice, my point was that it's crazy that men can decide things for me...

    I don't recall saying that there are less MP's and that is because they are women, I was merely stating a fact. I have never used 'because I am a woman' as a reason or excuse, I think it sickening.

    People keep pointing out to me that sexism works both ways, I did actually point out that yes, I am aware sexism works both ways, I don't need it pointing out to me.

    I agree, some feminists are mad, I have had dealings with some of them, they terrify me, and I agree, they don't do 'the cause' any good, but why should that stop me (or anyone) from making a stand? Unfortunately, I don't think that I will be able to change the name of feminism, and I am sorry that some men feel ashamed to admit they are feminists, again, there is not a lot I am able to do about that. 'Feminine' is identified as being 'weak' by society, again, something that is a result of the patriarchy - a system that pigeon-holes everyone and everything to the detriment of society.

    I see on a regular basis, men telling women who identify as feminists they should 'get back in the kitchen', or 'get their tits out', or that they are clearly lesbians and that they obviously just need a good **** inside them, so I apologise for again finding it very amusing that that yet another man is questioning the need for feminism. Blame society for making it socially acceptable to slate people for their beliefs, not me.

    Feminism isn't all about blatant sexism, it's about changing the views of society as a whole. I accept that there are people that have different views on how this can be achieved, I wasn't saying that my view is right or wrong, I wasn't saying that all women agree with me, I wasn't even saying that all men are sexist, so just ease up a bit on the hate, yeah?
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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    So basic anatomical rights and child courts and lack of male contraception is irrelevant to what you were talking about?? Your high. When you mentioned rights to abortion, that's fair, but come on, you don't think that these issues matter? If you don't then you probably laughed with me at the points I made.

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    It's 'you're', and yes, of course the issues you raised matter, but not in relation to my post.
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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    It's 'you're', and yes, of course the issues you raised matter, but not in relation to my post.
    You mentioned abortion rights and rights to children, something 1) men don't have any of and 2) men don't have any form of contraception. Unless you think vasectomys(male equivalent of sterilization) are cool. As for women being underrepresented in certain industries, what about, male primary teachers (get labeled a pedo)? Yes, it was feminism that did that.

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    (Original post by Ronove)
    It's his 'thing'.
    Actually it was, especially about maternal rights, and paternal rights.

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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    You said

    'I also think it's silly to be so black and white about 'men shouldn't have a say in women's issues', or rather, even worse, what you say - 'men shouldn't be able to engage in debate on women's issues'.',

    I looked over my post, I didn't say 'men shouldn't be able to engage in debate on women's issues'.

    Perhaps just a simple misunderstanding

    I listened to a radio programme the other day, that involved a lot of male MP's talking about 'women's issues'. I thought it ridiculous. What experience do they have of being a woman being as they were all men - it was the fist time I had ever really noticed this. A lot of legislation passed, is passed by males, without much input from women. Sure, debate away, but it is purely abstract if men are debating these issues. I also didn't say that I would prefer a woman to tell me what to do with my body. I agree, it's MY choice, my point was that it's crazy that men can decide things for me...

    I don't recall saying that there are less MP's and that is because they are women, I was merely stating a fact. I have never used 'because I am a woman' as a reason or excuse, I think it sickening.

    People keep pointing out to me that sexism works both ways, I did actually point out that yes, I am aware sexism works both ways, I don't need it pointing out to me.

    I agree, some feminists are mad, I have had dealings with some of them, they terrify me, and I agree, they don't do 'the cause' any good, but why should that stop me (or anyone) from making a stand? Unfortunately, I don't think that I will be able to change the name of feminism, and I am sorry that some men feel ashamed to admit they are feminists, again, there is not a lot I am able to do about that. 'Feminine' is identified as being 'weak' by society, again, something that is a result of the patriarchy - a system that pigeon-holes everyone and everything to the detriment of society.

    I see on a regular basis, men telling women who identify as feminists they should 'get back in the kitchen', or 'get their tits out', or that they are clearly lesbians and that they obviously just need a good **** inside them, so I apologise for again finding it very amusing that that yet another man is questioning the need for feminism. Blame society for making it socially acceptable to slate people for their beliefs, not me.

    Feminism isn't all about blatant sexism, it's about changing the views of society as a whole. I accept that there are people that have different views on how this can be achieved, I wasn't saying that my view is right or wrong, I wasn't saying that all women agree with me, I wasn't even saying that all men are sexist, so just ease up a bit on the hate, yeah?
    It isn't all about blatant sexism, just most of it though, huh?

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    (Original post by madders94)
    I think from the tone of just this first section we can see where this is going - "(a male, hilariously enough)" sums it up for me.



    How is it the fault of men if women don't stand as an MP as often and don't get voted in as often? Perhaps women should try and become MPs more often, and have better policies so they're more likely to get voted in, rather than complaining that they lost because they're a woman? Pathetic argument. Feminists want to be just as strong, if not stronger, than men, and yet the second anything goes wrong, rather than taking it on the chin, they moan that it's a product of patriarchal privilege.

    So why are women allowed a say in men's custody battles? Surely that means a male judge should always preside over whether a father gets the right to see his children? And yes, it is your womb, so why can other women tell you what to do with it but men can't? Personally I don't want anyone telling me what to do with my body, regardless of their gender.



    Men are soldiers, engineers, bus drivers. It works both ways; I'm curious as to why you highlighted the plight of women when feminists claim to be striving for equality. Men rarely end up as nannies or primary school teachers - not because they don't have the skills or the drive, but because there are also social barriers there; often created by the paranoid, over-protective "all men are paedophile rapist" brigade (funnily enough, these all tend to be women who identify as feminists. Well hey, if you can make statements like that, so can I). Where are the people fighting their corner?



    Overwhelmingly, the majority of outspoken feminists do focus on male-on-female sexism, and rarely if ever mention female-on-male, or cisgender on non-cisgender (or vice versa) sexism, which is why this viewpoint persists that feminism is biased in the favour of women, which in turn contributes to feminism not being taken seriously. The name doesn't help; back when all women felt the repercussions of the sexism that existed in the UK, it was fine, but these days, when not every woman does feel discriminated against based on their gender - or they see that men are discriminated against too - something like egalitarianism/humanitarianism is a more all-encompassing phrase, which also makes it inclusive to men so that the shame of calling yourself a "male feminist" - and there is stigma attached to that, I've seen it on Tumblr - doesn't exist.



    *raises hand* personally I believe that modern feminism is a dated concept and we need to modernize and stand up for everyone's right to be equal rather than one group in society who perceive themselves to be discriminated against. Basically a long winded way of saying that I think feminism as it stands is a load of rubbish - and I'm female.
    You... Are AWESOME!!!

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    You know, I read a LOT of this thread and there's definitely two people who seem to be kinda off the mark on the issues at hand. One of them expressed a problem with addressing sexism affecting females in our society, on the basis that there are very small numbers of cases where males are the victims of sexism. I feel that, as a male, I am happy to ignore whatever small pressures are put on my masculinity for the time being while a larger problem is addressed. Does this make me the worst kind of sexist pig-dog for prioritising women? Probably. But do I think social change is possible while a petty selfishness pervades? Nope.

    The other person is doing the thing that I hate most of all in online discussion: that is repeatedly arguing about semantics and meaning of their own and other peoples' arguments. This does nothing except confuse the issue and stifle upward discussion. I'm talking about the kind of argument that goes "You're putting words in my mouth, I never said that", "you misunderstood what I was saying", "go back and re-read my post". If the meaning of your posts is being repeatedly "misunderstood", perhaps you need to think about how you're presenting your idea.



    On the issue itself, I think one of the dangers is setting up male and females as opposing forces, even subconsciously. This is perhaps a problem that affects male reasoning on the issue because they feel they will be "losing" out on some power, privilege or identity by accepting compromise. But if men and women were truly as equal as they could be, the world would be a dramatically richer place.

    Faithfully,

    Sexist pig-dog
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    I'd love to see the word patriarchy replaced with kyriarchy, personally... in which patriarchy is only one of many aspects/parts.
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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    You mentioned abortion rights and rights to children, something 1) men don't have any of and 2) men don't have any form of contraception. Unless you think vasectomys(male equivalent of sterilization) are cool. As for women being underrepresented in certain industries, what about, male primary teachers (get labeled a pedo)? Yes, it was feminism that did that.

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    None of which are linked to my original post


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    (Original post by jreid1994)
    It isn't all about blatant sexism, just most of it though, huh?

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    Where do you get this stuff?!!!!


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    (Original post by Calpurnia)
    You know, I read a LOT of this thread and there's definitely two people who seem to be kinda off the mark on the issues at hand. One of them expressed a problem with addressing sexism affecting females in our society, on the basis that there are very small numbers of cases where males are the victims of sexism. I feel that, as a male, I am happy to ignore whatever small pressures are put on my masculinity for the time being while a larger problem is addressed. Does this make me the worst kind of sexist pig-dog for prioritising women? Probably. But do I think social change is possible while a petty selfishness pervades? Nope.

    The other person is doing the thing that I hate most of all in online discussion: that is repeatedly arguing about semantics and meaning of their own and other peoples' arguments. This does nothing except confuse the issue and stifle upward discussion. I'm talking about the kind of argument that goes "You're putting words in my mouth, I never said that", "you misunderstood what I was saying", "go back and re-read my post". If the meaning of your posts is being repeatedly "misunderstood", perhaps you need to think about how you're presenting your idea.



    On the issue itself, I think one of the dangers is setting up male and females as opposing forces, even subconsciously. This is perhaps a problem that affects male reasoning on the issue because they feel they will be "losing" out on some power, privilege or identity by accepting compromise. But if men and women were truly as equal as they could be, the world would be a dramatically richer place.

    Faithfully,

    Sexist pig-dog
    Note: it's the patriarchy that has set up males and females as opposing forces, not feminism or its advocates.


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    (Original post by SwearyKnitter)
    None of which are linked to my original post


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    Yes it was, tell me this, are male victims of domestic violence heard? Do men have any rights to choose about weather or not to be a parent? Well, do they??

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