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There is very little need for feminism in the UK Watch

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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    Female firefighters = weaker than average men = fail

    But female firefighters aren't exactly a majority, in fact there are very few female firefighters indeed, they make up only 4% of the service in the UK. I don't really get your point, do you think women should be banned from doing physical jobs which require strength? Feminists aren't fighting for women to do jobs that they aren't suited for, they are fighting for women to have the right to apply for any job they would be good at. I'm sure the female firefighters in the UK are very good at their jobs, just like the male firefighters.
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    (Original post by eline)
    Women still do not get equal pay for doing the same job
    Myth

    (Original post by eline)
    the conviction rate for rape reports is appalling
    Rape trials adhere to the same standards as any other criminal trial. Guilt must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. If that doesn't happen, it's simply tough. You cannot seriously be saying you want lower standards when proving guilt in rape trials?


    (Original post by eline)
    there are not enough women in politics
    Then more women should enter politics. Maybe it's a profession most women simply don't want to enter (but of course that's not actually their choice, is it? It's the oppression of the Patriarchy, right?) With the existence of all-women shortlists, and the fact that women vote more than men, I'd have to say maybe women should stop voting for men if they want more women in politics. Thankfully it seems most women simply vote based on polices and not the gender of a particular candidate.

    (Original post by eline)
    and women are the hardest hit group of the government cuts.
    unbiased source?

    (Original post by eline)
    I also find myself being victim to plenty of sexism in my day to day life.
    Most men could say the same. Stop whining.

    (Original post by eline)
    I am scared to walk home by myself after 9pm, how many men have it this way?
    Most men are very apprehensive walking alone at night. However, you might just be incredibly paranoid. All men are rapists, afterall, right?

    (Original post by eline)
    How many men are told to cover their bodies because they might get raped?
    How many men go out on a Saturday night wearing nothing but a belt and bra?
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    Or because they understand that feminism is a female interests group, has no interest in men's issues, and every feminist policy put into practise benefits women and disadvantages men.
    Things that benefit women do not automatically disadvantage men. If feminists were, for example, calling for men's shelters to be shut down in order to open up more women's shelters, THAT would be disadvantaging men. But simply opening more women's shelters does not disadvantage men, it just serves to help those in need, who clearly in that case are women.

    Have you heard of bell hooks? Since she's an extremely famous feminist who wrote about the importance of gender equality for EVERYONE, not just women, I would say that her feminist works were of no disadvantage to men whatsoever, no?
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    But female firefighters aren't exactly a majority, in fact there are very few female firefighters indeed, they make up only 4% of the service in the UK. I don't really get your point, do you think women should be banned from doing physical jobs which require strength? Feminists aren't fighting for women to do jobs that they aren't suited for, they are fighting for women to have the right to apply for any job they would be good at. I'm sure the female firefighters in the UK are very good at their jobs, just like the male firefighters.
    No women shouldn't be banned of course. The point is standards were lowered in order for women to be able to be firefighters. They were always able to take the test, they simply weren't able to pass. Feminists looked at the statistics, shouted sexism, and lowered the standards so women could join. This is a do or die profession that requires peak levels of strength and feminists politicised it. It is simply one of many polices feminists have introduced in the name of "equality" that has seriously dangerous consequences. I'm 11 stone. If I get trapped under a beam or fall unconscious and a female firefighter pops through the window, they will not be able to get me out. Period. The one in the video couldn't even knock down a barrier an average man could.
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    Or because they understand that feminism is a female interests group, has no interest in men's issues, and every feminist policy put into practise benefits women and disadvantages men.
    Is it not always wrong to disadvantage men: given women the right to vote and to education clearly disadvantaged men in many ways, but you cannot argue that this was wrong. Why is it wrong to disadvantage men if they have unfair benefits? Also, many feminists do take an interest in men's issues and it is not necessarily the case that feminism will disadvantage men. I read an academic article a few months back that said giving women more rights would be trenendously beneficial to the economy. How would the reduction of, say, sexism, domestic violence and rape be disadvantaging men? How would giving women better maternity leave conditions disadvantage men? Would it not mean that a household (which often involves a man too,ironanically) would have more security?
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    No women shouldn't be banned of course. The point is standards were lowered in order for women to be able to be firefighters. They were always able to take the test, they simply weren't able to pass. Feminists looked at the statistics, shouted sexism, and lowered the standards so women could join. This is a do or die profession that requires peak levels of strength and feminists politicised it. It is simply one of many polices feminists have introduced in the name of "equality" that has seriously dangerous consequences. I'm 11 stone. If I get trapped under a beam or fall unconscious and a female firefighter pops through the window, they will not be able to get me out. Period. The one in the video couldn't even knock down a barrier an average man could.
    If you can prove that this has anything to do with feminists, then please go for it. Calling out sexism in a section of society is not feminism, it's calling out sexism.
    And since firefighters work in teams, one individual's slightly smaller body and strength is not a problem. Do you have an issue with this guy too? http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...refighter.html
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Things that benefit women do not automatically disadvantage men. If feminists were, for example, calling for men's shelters to be shut down in order to open up more women's shelters, THAT would be disadvantaging men. But simply opening more women's shelters does not disadvantage men, it just serves to help those in need, who clearly in that case are women.

    Have you heard of bell hooks? Since she's an extremely famous feminist who wrote about the importance of gender equality for EVERYONE, not just women, I would say that her feminist works were of no disadvantage to men whatsoever, no?
    There has already been a video showing cancer research statistics and NHS resources when it comes to cancer screening.

    2010: 10,721 deaths from prostate cancer
    2010: 11,633 deaths from breast cancer
    Breast cancer receives 10 times more NHS funding than prostate cancer
    Men cannot request PSAs on the NHS
    Women can receive BSAs

    http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/canc...ity-statistics
    http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/canc.../types/breast/
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/.../somecancersar

    How is sucking up so much NHS funding for breast cancer not disadvantaging men?
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    There has already been a video showing cancer research statistics and NHS resources when it comes to cancer screening.

    2010: 10,721 deaths from prostate cancer
    2010: 11,633 deaths from breast cancer
    Breast cancer receives 10 times more NHS funding than prostate cancer
    Men cannot request PSAs on the NHS
    Women can receive BSAs

    http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/canc...ity-statistics
    http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/canc.../types/breast/
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/.../somecancersar

    How is sucking up so much NHS funding for breast cancer not disadvantaging men?
    But where is any of this the fault of feminism? Does feminism decide where NHS funding goes? Or is it the government, or the NHS? Do you actually know?
    What about all the ways that society disadvantages women, which anti-feminists tell us to "stop whining" about?
    It seems like you only care about the men, to be quite honest with you. The black civil rights movement may have disadvantaged whites somewhat, but who cares - they were the group getting all the benefits of a higher social status. You can't cancel out the disadvantages women face in society by pointing out a few disadvantages men have in society, how would that make any sense?
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    But where is any of this the fault of feminism? Does feminism decide where NHS funding goes? Or is it the government, or the NHS? Do you actually know?
    What about all the ways that society disadvantages women, which anti-feminists tell us to "stop whining" about?
    It seems like you only care about the men, to be quite honest with you. The black civil rights movement may have disadvantaged whites somewhat, but who cares - they were the group getting all the benefits of a higher social status. You can't cancel out the disadvantages women face in society by pointing out a few disadvantages men have in society, how would that make any sense?
    I'm done here. Your last sentence is disgusting. You obviously have no idea about the potency and seriousness of men's rights issues, and your exaggeration of male privilege and female disadvantage is hilarious. Women are the most privileged and protected group in today's society. But you will always want more more more. Goodbye.
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    I'm done here. Your last sentence is disgusting. You obviously have no idea about the potency and seriousness of men's rights issues, and your exaggeration of male privilege and female disadvantage is hilarious. Women are the most privileged and protected group in today's society. But you will always want more more more. Goodbye.
    Lol! Sorry but you clearly want to misinterpret what I'm saying. Reread what I wrote, at no point do I say men's rights do not matter, but if you really think women get a better deal in society than men, then I'd love to be part of your society. Shame it's complete nonsense.
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    I'm done here. Your last sentence is disgusting. You obviously have no idea about the potency and seriousness of men's rights issues, and your exaggeration of male privilege and female disadvantage is hilarious. Women are the most privileged and protected group in today's society. But you will always want more more more. Goodbye.
    QFT
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Lol! Sorry but you clearly want to misinterpret what I'm saying. Reread what I wrote, at no point do I say men's rights do not matter, but if you really think women get a better deal in society than men, then I'd love to be part of your society. Shame it's complete nonsense.
    Where did I ever say that you think men's rights do not matter? I said you are hilariously uneducated about them. To you men's rights are petty little squabbles which may or may not be seen to once "women have finally been unshackled from the oppression of the Patriarchy!" *cue Imperial March theme* Which is why I found your last sentence so abhorrent.

    And you know, feminists love to say privilege is blind which is why many men cannot see their privilege. All I can say is right back at you
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    I'm done here. Your last sentence is disgusting. You obviously have no idea about the potency and seriousness of men's rights issues, and your exaggeration of male privilege and female disadvantage is hilarious. Women are the most privileged and protected group in today's society. But you will always want more more more. Goodbye.
    I am a feminist and I agree that there should be more focus on prostate cancer. But feminism isn't all about funding for cancer. You cannot say that because breast cancer receives more funding than prostate cancer men are disadvantaged in society per se. That is very narrowminded. The claim that women are the most privileged and protected group in society is a completely mistaken. Either way, if you continue to argue for this claim I ask you to please provide some pretty solid facts to back up such a bold statement. I challenge you.
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    (Original post by eline)
    I am a feminist and I agree that there should be more focus on prostate cancer. But feminism isn't all about funding for cancer. You cannot say that because breast cancer receives more funding than prostate cancer men are disadvantaged in society per se. That is very narrowminded. The claim that women are the most privileged and protected group in society is a completely mistaken. Either way, if you continue to argue for this claim I ask you to please provide some pretty solid facts to back up such a bold statement. I challenge you.
    It was one example of female privilege and wasn't intended to be the smoking gun of female privilege in society. There are countless more examples. I'll make a more substantial post later.
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    Where did I ever say that you think men's rights do not matter? I said you are hilariously uneducated about them. To you men's rights are petty little squabbles which may or may not be seen to once "women have finally been unshackled from the oppression of the Patriarchy!" *cue Imperial March theme* Which is why I found your last sentence so abhorrent.

    And you know, feminists love to say privilege is blind which is why many men cannot see their privilege. All I can say is right back at you
    Nope, I can just see that the people who make up 90% of the world's prisons, the people who are most likely to rape or murder, the people who start wars are men. If you want to make this man vs woman, then why are men vastly the perpetrators of intimate partner death? Why are they vastly the perpetrators of rape?
    Note, pointing this out does not in any way say that all men are like this, but the same goes for feminists. Feminist theories and approaches vary so much across the globe, so how can you pigeon hole them into being a group you don't want to support? Have you heard every individual feminist argument and decided that every single one is invalid?

    Men's rights are important, all human rights are. But feminism is not about undermining male rights, it's about helping women get their rights which across society all over the world, throughout the ages has treated women as inferior to men. If you'd like to deny that go ahead, but that is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact, and it is a sad fact that women continue to be oppressed (and told we're whining if we speak out about said oppression).
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    It was one example of female privilege and wasn't intended to be the smoking gun of female privilege in society. There are countless more examples. I'll make a more substantial post later.
    You will need more than a few examples to back such a claim. You will need substantial and deep analysis. Even then you will still be vulnerable to countless objections.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    What is it with all these anti feminist threads? Has there suddenly been an influx in bitter men whove had bad breakups or something?
    Quite the contrary, it's actually a bunch of bitter women trying to find things to have a good moan about.
    Because modern fenimism is a load of crap.
    It doesn't stand for anything that the original fenimism did. Fact.
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    (Original post by eline)
    You will need more than a few examples to back such a claim. You will need substantial and deep analysis. Even then you will still be vulnerable to countless objections.
    Then I won't bother. You have a biased agenda and won't accept anything I say regardless. Your ideology does not gel with facts and reality.
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Nope, I can just see that the people who make up 90% of the world's prisons
    Here's a nugget for you. Did you know that in in the US if a female commits the same crime as a man, with exactly the same factors, she will, on average, receive a sentence 63% lower?

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=2144002

    Did you also know that in the UK the judiciary has been advised to be more lenient on female criminals? Probably not.

    (Original post by edithwashere)
    the people who are most likely to rape or murder, the people who start wars are men.
    Did you know that under UK law it is impossible for a woman to rape a man? I guess that's why men are more likely to rape, seeing as they're the only sex who can be legally convicted of it. Non-consensual penis in vagina = rape. Non-consensual vagina enveloping penis = not rape. Further, I remember someone posting a very reliable US study on here recently which actually showed women rape men slightly less than men rape women. I'll try and find it for you. And did you know the majority of murder victims are male?

    (Original post by edithwashere)
    If you want to make this man vs woman, then why are men vastly the perpetrators of intimate partner death?
    Did you know studies show women initiate violence against their partners as much as men do? Did you know that men kill themselves 3 times more than women? Did you know the vast majority of homeless people are men? Did you know women can kill a man's child without his permission?


    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Note, pointing this out does not in any way say that all men are like this, but the same goes for feminists. Feminist theories and approaches vary so much across the globe, so how can you pigeon hole them into being a group you don't want to support? Have you heard every individual feminist argument and decided that every single one is invalid?
    You have done nothing in this thread but lump feminists into one category when it suits you. Suddenly when a detractor does it you go and throw a hissy fit.

    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Men's rights are important, all human rights are. But feminism is not about undermining male rights, it's about helping women get their rights which across society all over the world, throughout the ages has treated women as inferior to men. If you'd like to deny that go ahead, but that is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact, and it is a sad fact that women continue to be oppressed (and told we're whining if we speak out about said oppression).
    Helping women achieve their rights is one thing. Giving them privilege and relegating men's issues to the maybe pile is another. All I see feminists doing these days is the latter.

    EDIT: And I did say I was done arguing with you, and it has yet again become clear that you are oblivious to the seriousness of men's issues which feminists either ignore completely, deny, or call trivial. You're a "rational, logical, moderate feminist who cares about men's issues" and yet didn't know men can't be raped...I'll let you have the last word.
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Nope, I can just see that the people who make up 90% of the world's prisons, the people who are most likely to rape or murder, the people who start wars are men. If you want to make this man vs woman, then why are men vastly the perpetrators of intimate partner death? Why are they vastly the perpetrators of rape?
    Note, pointing this out does not in any way say that all men are like this, but the same goes for feminists. Feminist theories and approaches vary so much across the globe, so how can you pigeon hole them into being a group you don't want to support? Have you heard every individual feminist argument and decided that every single one is invalid?

    Men's rights are important, all human rights are. But feminism is not about undermining male rights, it's about helping women get their rights which across society all over the world, throughout the ages has treated women as inferior to men. If you'd like to deny that go ahead, but that is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact, and it is a sad fact that women continue to be oppressed (and told we're whining if we speak out about said oppression).
    I have to say I'm curious about why you keep saying this when it's already been mentioned countless times that women cannot rape men if we're talking about legal terminology in the UK. Statistics aren't going to list women being charged with or convicted of rape when it's not what it's called in the judicial system.
 
 
 
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