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There is very little need for feminism in the UK Watch

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    (Original post by james22)
    Almost everyone on this site was not alive when that happened so why is it at all relevent now that women had it worse in the past.
    Well no one on here was alive when blacks and whites were segregated in America, so I guess that must make it okay then?
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    (Original post by noneofthemknew)
    True and such attitudes are wrong as well. But they certianly don't detract from the problems faced by women, they just show that sexism cuts both ways. Also, I've been told that men who do enter into such fields of work tend to progress up the career ladder very quickly, I don't how much truth there is in that assertion though myself.
    Oh, don't get me twisted, I knew you meant that. Only most feminists I know believe that its a woman only issue.
    (Original post by dartanoir)
    I find it amazing how women are expected to sympathise with men's issues when men are belittling women's issues and are telling us to suck it up.
    Go on twitter, go on thhis twitter link and come back to me again.https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ineedmasculismbecause

    Women's needs tend to be pandered more because their vote is extremely important as seen in the us election. Politician s are more likely to appeal to. Them to win.


    (Original post by The Fruitbat)
    This.

    Sorry, but saying that gender inequality is not a problem anymore is a lie. Some guys are getting seriously resentful of women in general and I genuinely don't know why. Women are referred to as a minority... But we are 50% of the damn population.

    Do you know what it's like finding out that statistically, it doesn't matter how hard we work at school or what I achieve at university, because we're likely to still get paid 11% less than a man in the same job with the same qualifications? It's ****ing demoralising and sad and unfair. Women are not a minority. I really don't care about a 40:50 woman man ratio in the workplace, I really don't. But it's more like 20:80 and that's not fair or ok if we are literally of the same number as the other human beings on the earth with a penis.


    There was a study done (not sure of source, but it's everywhere, I may google :P) on people our age, asking girls and boys what they would do if they woke up to find themselves the opposite gender. The girls typically expressed surprise and disappointment, then listed the things they would do (peeing standing up, dammit!) but the guys, with an overwhelming majority, answered 'kill myself'. I found that pretty powerful.



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    First all the wage gap based on discrimination is a myth

    And the study you are talking about refers to this?Name:  tumblr_mi37ngv07J1qa8zbgo1_500.jpg
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    Well to quit a tumblr user
    A boy saying that if he woke up the next morning and was female that he would “kill himself” isn’t expressing misogyny. They wouldn’t kill themselves because they hate women. In fact, very few of them really would automatically kill themselves, as it’s an extreme reaction for anyone to take. Many of them would probably explore their new gender and new sexuality before deciding they did or did not like it.

    This was a survey done on JUNIOR HIGH BOYS. Boys who are going through puberty and are at their most vulnerable, just like girls. They’re being peer-pressured into conforming to their societal gender roles as much as girls are at this time. Of course JUNIOR HIGH BOYS would say something as stupid as this. They’re ****ing 12-15 years old, and immature. I’m sure there were girls in that class that instantly responded with disgust, before stating what they would do if it happened.

    If teenage boys weren’t interested in girls, weren’t willing to be “associated” with girls as you so put it, then they wouldn’t spend most of their junior high life and high school life trying to get girlfriends and trying to show off for girls now, would they? Why would men want to be with women in any way if they hated them?

    And also,
    .Of course, it doesn’t provide much of an actual link to the original, nor provides context in how they they were asked, was the data received from the boys “pure” (that is, were the boys allowed to hear the answers of the girls and think, “****, if they have to change genders to be able to do most of that cool stuff, then being a girl sucks!”).

    But since we’re playing the Reframe to Blame game, let me take a stab at it *ahem*: Tell me again how feminism helps women when the overwhelming result of it tells me that being a woman is the equivalent of death. This is the results of years of feminist rebranding the entire feminine exist into one of abject misery and death. Even these young girls are so ignorant and clueless as to believe that they couldn’t do anything if they were not boys. The jealousy that poisons feminism is the real culprit here, and no one call tell me different because I’m using bolded text.

    And as later pointed out, this picture is from a study done in 1956 (quick math hot shot, that’s 57 years ago!) for a paper/book done in the 1970s. This has long sense ceased to be relative to life in the present era, but feminists love their sensational propaganda.

    But a question for you all: Would an Oppressor truly pass laws that would punish him for his Oppressive ways? Why would “The Patriarchy” pass something like VAWA in the first place if all men HATE WOMEN (no wait HATE WOMEN bolding let’s you knowing I’m totes serious now)? Why is it that men are willing to solely single themselves out in laws about rape? If our society hates women, then why is there a feminist movement to begin with? Why are they allowed to speak against the Oppressors that are supposedly murdering them and silencing them?
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    (Original post by bottled)
    Oh, don't get me twisted, I knew you meant that. Only most feminists I know believe that its a woman only issue.

    Go on twitter, go on thhis twitter link and come back to me again.https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ineedmasculismbecause

    Women's needs tend to be pandered more because their vote is extremely important as seen in the us election. Politician s are more likely to appeal to. Them to win
    Women's needs aren't "pandered" to. They are ignored and undermined, constantly, by things such as threads like these. Can't you see that?
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    (Original post by mc1000)
    "The Everyday Sexism Project exists to catalogue instances of sexism experienced by women on a day to day basis. They might be serious or minor, outrageously offensive or so niggling and normalised that you don’t even feel able to protest. Say as much or as little as you like, use your real name or a pseudonym – it’s up to you. By sharing your story you’re showing the world that sexism does exist, it is faced by women everyday and it is a valid problem to discuss."

    http://www.everydaysexism.com/index.php/about - it's all women, women, women.




    Yet, in reality, sexism is faced by both men and women; and among the more intelligent demographics (such as those on TSR), I'd say (with a few unacceptable exceptions) that there's often more sexism against men.
    And what exactly is so terrible about that? If anything its men who are always finding reasons to be offended by feminism.

    I dont know where you get that from. Tsr is one of the most sexist and generally prejudiced websites ive ever visited, because everyone here can speak their mind with little or no repercussion.
    you talk about intelligence- tsr is home to some of the stupidest threads and posts ive ever seen.
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Have you read anything that feminists have written in this thread? The problem is not law, it's culture and society. If you really think all we're doing is moaning then you clearly have no concept of what feminists are striving to achieve nor the ways in which we do so.
    The problem is that women are mixed on their views, so how the hell is society meant to know what they want?
    • In one corner you have women wanting to be free and have no constraints even if it goes against nature.
    • You then have the women who want to be men and live a mans life, again, ignoring nature and all research.
    • Another group wants the best of both worlds eg. equal rights, but to be treated like a Princess and have their meals paid for, doors held open, and to be served life on a silver platter.
    • And finally, you have the normal women who realise that most women and men are equal morons and will be sexist, ignorant, etc because the mob is always stupid, and these women just want to be left alone to pursue life how they want to. These few sane women, are the ones I fully support.
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    Anyone who is anti-feminism clearly doesn't understand what it means.
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    The problem is that women are mixed on their views, so how the hell is society meant to know what they want?
    • In one corner you have women wanting to be free and have no constraints even if it goes against nature.
    • You then have the women who want to be men and live a mans life, again, ignoring nature and all research.
    • Another group wants the best of both worlds eg. equal rights, but to be treated like a Princess and have their meals paid for, doors held open, and to be served life on a silver platter.
    • And finally, you have the normal women who realise that most women and men are equal morons and will be sexist, ignorant, etc because the mob is always stupid, and these women just want to be left alone to pursue life how they want to. These few sane women, are the ones I fully support.
    Women make up 50% of the world's population, so I would advise against generalizing all of them into 4 different categories. There is nothing wrong with feminism, only the perceptions that some people have of feminism. Why are you so insistent on belittling the arguments of women who want equal rights? Would you like it if you were a member of an oppressed group, say, blacks (who have come a long way but still face oppression on a regular basis) and the people who you were asking for support against this oppression told you you were "moaning" or "sitting around crying because your life isn't a fairy tale?"

    I have had some absolutely horrible experiences in my life, which I would not have experienced had I been born male. Until such things cease to happen, feminism will always exist, and will never be silenced.
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    (Original post by TheBritishArmy)
    I don't approve of abusive and disrespectful comments based around gender.
    As there are no formal barriers to the freedom of women in this country, what is it you're complaining about? "Some people say things that upset me" is not a matter that should be sorted by legislation, and writing angry articles in the media isn't going to stop people saying things you don't like either.
    I don't think the problem is very big in England. Of course there's still a problem.

    Myself, coming originally from Israel, I can give you a perfect example of where formal laws are not enough to prevent sexism.

    Israel is supposedly a democratic state, with equal rights for everyone, including women, homosexuals, different races etc. They have a benefit system and they have protection systems designed specifically for women. But Israel, being a new country, has a very large sub-population of people who are very primitive in their ideas. While both men and women are allowed to work, it is the social norm for women to raise the children and take care of the house while the man leaves the house for days on end without coming back (this phenomenon is in Sephardi populations and it is diminishing, but it is very strong in my family).

    Both my parents come from such cultures. While they do live in a democratic state, my mum told me that all of her brothers beat their wives and cheat on them. Of course the wives call the police when they are beaten and the husbands get what the deserve, but the women CAN'T leave their husbands because they are completely dependent on him for financial support FOR THEIR CHILDREN (in societies where there are strong gender roles, children are often, if not always, the best ways to control women and keep them trapped). While he cheats on her and steps on her in every way possible, she has to pretend to like him just so her kids can grow up well and with money. My mum said that she thinks my aunts probably all can't wait until their kids grow up so they could finally kick their husbands in the balls and say goodbye.

    I know this doesn't have to happen, but it is indoctrination of both the girls (to be subservient/to have kids and not work) and the indoctrination of the boys (to work and go out and do things - this is something I have seen in my OWN family. Myself and my sisters, as well as my mum, had to constantly look after my father and my male siblings (from the age of 8). We had to cook and clean for them while they critique our work, and we weren't allowed to leave the house or to socialise... but the boys were encouraged to go outside and "be men" from the age of 10). Of course, having moved to England, I am the lucky one in this scenario because I have learned to be independent and know how to take care of myself/be nice to people, whereas my brothers are all spoilt brats who could never approach a woman in this society because they're disgusting in their approach and completely unacceptable in their behaviours.

    In England sexism is different and much more subtle, but it exists nonetheless.

    Edit: Just realised I forgot to conclude... the problem is indoctrination, the answer is education. That's pretty much what (I think) the feminist movement is trying to do, but for some reason it is constantly getting shot down by angry men who think their freedom is about to be snatched away.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sexism

    how about the fact that women didn't have the vote until quite recently? How about the fact that some girls in third world countries are facing genital mutilation?

    still want to pretend it's not a problem?

    next I'll be hearing you say that there's actually no evidence that racism has traditionally been the oppression of black people by whites. :rolleyes:
    The total length of time that all men had the vote whilst women did not was just 10 years, a completely insignificant timescale in the history of this country. Also regarding the genital mutilation are you not that this happens to men also.

    I really wish feminists would stop acting as though they're the only gender that has got problems
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    (Original post by c_al)
    The total length of time that all men had the vote whilst women did not was just 10 years, a completely insignificant timescale in the history of this country. Also regarding the genital mutilation are you not that this happens to men also.

    I really wish feminists would stop acting as though they're the only gender that has got problems
    http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demograph...st%20women.pdf

    I'd like to hear your opinions on the statistics above, given by the UN. Women face far more problems than men in the modern world, and they always have done. Can't you empathise? Everybody has problems, but I doubt you are treated differently every single day of your life because of what's in your pants.
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Because we still have it worse. Duh.
    Regardless of the truth of that statement, the fact that you had it worse in the past is not relevent.
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    (Original post by rainbow.panda)
    Well no one on here was alive when blacks and whites were segregated in America, so I guess that must make it okay then?
    Not my point, my point is that the fact that women had it worse in the past is not relevent to gender equality now. For your example, blacks and whites were segregated in the past but this does not mean (on its own) that black people need to push for more rights now.
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    (Original post by james22)
    Regardless of the truth of that statement, the fact that you had it worse in the past is not relevent.
    Do you go around telling black people that there's no racism any more because the civil rights movement was 40 years ago? The passing of time does not make facts any less relevant.
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Do you go around telling black people that there's no racism any more because the civil rights movement was 40 years ago? The passing of time does not make facts any less relevant.
    I never said there was no sexism, I just said that the fact there was sexism in the past is not relevent to how things work today.

    EDIT: This was the post I was replying to:

    "Sexism against men is wrong too of course, but bear in mind that women have been treated as second class citizens for most of human history and only relatively recently have people started to take a stand. We've only had equal voting rights since 1928 and the Equal Pay Act only came into force in 1975. Can you recall a time when men were treated as inferior citizens? "

    I am only saying that this is not a relevent point.
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    (Original post by james22)
    I never said there was no sexism, I just said that the fact there was sexism in the past is not relevent to how things work today.
    How about the Jimmy Savile Case? Some of his victims were abused 40+ years ago and have only just found justice because the system at the time did not support male or female victims of sexual assault. Is that not relevant because it happened decades ago?

    You can't just write off the past because you don't want to acknowledge it. You don't seem to have a valid point to make whatsoever.
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    How about the Jimmy Savile Case? Some of his victims were abused 40+ years ago and have only just found justice because the system at the time did not support male or female victims of sexual assault. Is that not relevant because it happened decades ago?

    You can't just write off the past because you don't want to acknowledge it. You don't seem to have a valid point to make whatsoever.
    Read the edit, I included the post I was replying to so you can see it in context.
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    (Original post by james22)
    Read the edit, I included the post I was replying to so you can see it in context.
    The post you were replying to was a great post. Women have always been treated as inferior, and they still are. What makes you think that this is irrelevant? If men had always been treated as inferior and still were today, would you be fighting for that to change? Or would you say that it's not relevant and ignore it?
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    The post you were replying to was a great post. Women have always been treated as inferior, and they still are. What makes you think that this is irrelevant? If men had always been treated as inferior and still were today, would you be fighting for that to change? Or would you say that it's not relevant and ignore it?
    The "still are" bit was not in the post I was replying to, it was refering to the past. What is relevent is how women are being treated today, not how they were being treated 50 years ago. Why should it make the slightest bit of difference today if women didn't have the vote 100 years ago? The relevent bit is the fact that they may be treated as inferior today, not that it happened in the past.

    EDIT: Also the post I was replying to said that sexism against men is worng but women had it bad in the past, almost implying that women having had it worse in the past justifies sexism against men now.
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    (Original post by james22)
    The "still are" bit was not in the post I was replying to, it was refering to the past. What is relevent is how women are being treated today, not how they were being treated 50 years ago. Why dhould it make the slightest bit of difference today if women didn't have the vote 100 years ago?

    EDIT: Also the post I was replying to said that sexism against men is worng but women had it bad in the past, almost implying that women having had it worse in the past justifies sexism against men now.
    You didn't answer my question
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    You didn't answer my question
    Just edited to as you posted that.
 
 
 
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