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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Well lets think about this for a minute. The government doesn't have money right? The only way the government gets wealth is by taking it from its people. So you'll think he's great if you got something handed to you that you didn't have to work for but if you had wealth confiscated from you, you aren't going to be a fan of Chavez. Most of the Venezuelan in Miami had their businesses destroyed by this man or had a lot of wealth taken from them
    As I've said before, it's a chicken-and-egg question. How does the government get money? By taxing people. How do those people make that money? Because the government creates the environment for them to do so. For example, how much worse off would the music or technology industries be without intellectual property laws?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    They seem to behave in very similar ways to the Miami Cubans.
    Well fortunately Chavez was no Castro so the situation is a lot different. Chavez shut down tv and radio station who opposed him, but Castro has all his opponents executed.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Well fortunately Chavez was no Castro so the situation is a lot different. Chavez shut down tv and radio station who opposed him, but Castro has all his opponents executed.
    Chavez shut down TV and radio who were involved in a coup attempt.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Well fortunately Chavez was no Castro so the situation is a lot different. Chavez shut down tv and radio station who opposed him, but Castro has all his opponents executed.
    That's one way of viewing it. Between 1959 and 1987 there were 237 death sentences for a range of crimes, with 216 actually carried out - the political crimes that attracted that sentence were mainly in the early years and classified as 'war crimes' - regardless of what one thinks of their validity, the Batista regime that preceded it was hardly a model of human rights.
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    Just read through the posts and I'm quite suprised by the number of supporters of Chavez.
    This was a man who vocally and morally supported some of today's most brutal regimes. He was not a tolerant man or a friend of democracy, freedom of speech or human rights- dissenting journalists and opponents were imprisoned. It's easy to support undemocratic regimes while enjoying a liberal democratic life here in Britain.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    Just read through the posts and I'm quite suprised by the number of supporters of Chavez.
    This was a man who vocally and morally supported some of today's most brutal regimes. He was not a tolerant man or a friend of democracy, freedom of speech or human rights- dissenting journalists and opponents were imprisoned. It's easy to support undemocratic regimes while enjoying a liberal democratic life here in Britain.
    People who plotted to overthrow him were imprisoned. That would happen here too.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    People who plotted to overthrow him were imprisoned. That would happen here too.
    Imprisoning journalists voicing opposition is hardly the same thing as imprisoning 'people planning to overthrow him'. Blaiming the opposition for "plotting to overthow the regime" is one of the most common traits of an undemocratic country (look at Stalin) but ofc you would know more than the UN.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    Just read through the posts and I'm quite suprised by the number of supporters of Chavez.
    This was a man who vocally and morally supported some of today's most brutal regimes. He was not a tolerant man or a friend of democracy, freedom of speech or human rights- dissenting journalists and opponents were imprisoned. It's easy to support undemocratic regimes while enjoying a liberal democratic life here in Britain.

    Not a friend of democracy? He was elected by the people of Venezuela on a populist/socialist programme of wealth distribution. Just because the United States would rather a dictator more disposed to their economic interests in the area than a democratically elected leftist does not make Chavez an enemy of democracy.

    As for free speech in the media- do you know what happened in the 2002 coup? The private media controlled by his political rivals were mobilised against him. The coup leaders went so far as to "thank" the media. I think it's understandable that he mightn't have been too keen on them after that.

    Here's the other side of the story- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c

    Chavez was far from perfect but this anti-democratic slur is totally unfair. If you believe the US give a rats arse about democracy in Latin America you're being very naive. They have supported right wing militia against democratic socialist across the continent throughout the 20th century.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    Imprisoning journalists voicing opposition is hardly the same thing as imprisoning 'people planning to overthrow him'. Blaiming the opposition for "plotting to overthow the regime" is one of the most common traits of an undemocratic country (look at Stalin) but ofc you would know more than the UN.
    No, he imprisoned journalists who took part in the attempted coup.
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    (Original post by DK_Tipp)
    Not a friend of democracy? He was elected by the people of Venezuela on a populist/socialist programme of wealth distribution. Just because the United States would rather a dictator more disposed to their economic interests in the area than a democratically elected leftist does not make Chavez an enemy of democracy.

    As for free speech in the media- do you know what happened in the 2002 coup? The private media controlled by his political rivals were mobilised against him. The coup leaders went so far as to "thank" the media. I think it's understandable that he mightn't have been too keen on them after that.

    Here's the other side of the story- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c

    Chavez was far from perfect but this anti-democratic slur is totally unfair. If you believe the US give a rats arse about democracy in Latin America you're being very naive. They have supported right wing militia against democratic socialist across the continent throughout the 20th century.
    Yeah, and the president of Iran "wins" elections too. A friend of democracy does not support the Iranian regime, which is arguably the most undemocratic regime in the world after N. Korea. Yes well done, the media does often criticise leaders, that does not justify the reduction of freedom of speech. I trust the UN more than a youtube video, sorry!
    And don't come here and try to teach me about U.S foreign policy, my people has been the greatest victim of American policy. Perhaps one needs to have experienced lack of democracy to truly appreciate it. You don't know how lucky you are.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    No, he imprisoned journalists who took part in the attempted coup.
    No, read the UN reports.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    Yeah, and the president of Iran "wins" elections too. A friend of democracy does not support the Iranian regime, which is arguably the most undemocratic regime in the world after N. Korea. Yes well done, the media does often criticise leaders, that does not justify the reduction of freedom of speech. I trust the UN more than a youtube video, sorry!
    And don't come here and try to teach me about U.S foreign policy, my people has been the greatest victim of American policy. Perhaps one needs to have experienced lack of democracy to truly appreciate it. You don't know how lucky you are.
    You do know that the elections were independently monitored and found to be fair?
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    No, read the UN reports.
    Which ones?
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    You do know that the elections were independently monitored and found to be fair?
    You keep ignoring the main crust of my arguments. Proves you don't have much to come with. I rest my case.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    You keep ignoring 99% of my arguments. Proves you don't have much to come with. I rest my case.
    You didn't know that I take it. Rather blows your argument out of the water, ay.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    You keep ignoring the main crust of my arguments. Proves you don't have much to come with. I rest my case.
    Yeah, they are a bit stale.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Which ones?
    The one after the arrest of that judge, cant remember her name.
    Or perhaps the 2010 Amnesty report, or the Human Rights Watch report
    which criticised lack of freedom of speech amongst others.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    The one after the arrest of that judge, cant remember her name.
    Or perhaps the 2010 Amnesty report, or the Human Rights Watch report
    which criticised lack of freedom of speech amongst others.
    Which reports? Name them so I can find them. Ta.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Yeah, they are a bit stale.
    Changed it from 99%. It's unfair to use numbers without a calculation.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Which reports? Name them so I can find them. Ta.
    Aw, you don't know how to use Google? Cute

    And yeah the elections were totally fair, this article sums it up
    http://patdollard.com/2012/10/wall-s...otally-rigged/
 
 
 
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