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Will Britain ever escape the grip of Paedophile Hysteria? Watch

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    The thing is, we need to create an environment in which people who genuinely would hurt children feel that the risk of being caught, at least in schools and activity clubs etc, is too high. In the past, many more children were abused in schools. The system we have in place now makes it very difficult to do so, and that's got to be a good thing.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to have guidelines which don't allow teachers to touch children unless in extreme circumstances, or volunteers not to be left alone with a child. If those guidelines didn't exist it would be easier for the very few who would hurt a child to do so. It might irritate some people who work with kids and feel that they are over-scrutinised etc, but remember they are there in order to protect all our children - just because you are totally fine to be left alone with a young child doesn't mean everybody else is. And I don't think "false accusation" happens enough for anyone to be overly worried about it.
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    (Original post by WannabeCrypto)
    By definition, someone falsely accused IS the victim....

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    Yet if they're proven innocent, in court, then that's that. You can't undo or forget a sexual assault, particularly one suffered during childhood. I don't see why I should feel more sympathetic for somebody who has been falsely accused of a crime than somebody who has been raped. Having been raped, I can tell you it really does ruin your life. Not a day goes by when you don't blame yourself or question your actions, or remember the details of the attack. That's a living hell and I really do not think it is on the same level of suffering as somebody who is falsely accused of a crime. Do you?
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Yet if they're proven innocent, in court, then that's that. You can't undo or forget a sexual assault, particularly one suffered during childhood. I don't see why I should feel more sympathetic for somebody who has been falsely accused of a crime than somebody who has been raped. Having been raped, I can tell you it really does ruin your life. Not a day goes by when you don't blame yourself or question your actions, or remember the details of the attack. That's a living hell and I really do not think it is on the same level of suffering as somebody who is falsely accused of a crime. Do you?
    Yes I think it probably would be just as bad.

    Being falsely accused of being a paedophile would probably be hell. All your friends and family ostracising you etc? For somthing you didnt do? And its not just "A crime" In the eyes of many, its worse than muder (?) - and many would want to harass, torture and even kill you.

    People have topped themselves over that. Im sorry you got raped, but I dont think you are empathising with the complexity of the issue.

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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    I just said I care more about the victims of sexual abuse than people who are wrongly accused of it. Don't try and make out that I'm being sexist :rolleyes:
    You specifically said, "I could care less about men who [are worried about being the victim of gender-based discrimination]."

    "I could care less" doesn't mean "there are bigger problems currently surrounding this issue", it means "I don't really care." I don't see how it's consistent for someone who specifically wants to see the end of gender-based discrimination to suddenly not care about it just because the victims of sexual abuse face a worse situation overall than the falsely accused. I do think that it would have bothered you more if it was a problem disproportionately faced by women instead of men, yes.
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    At working-class level, no. Definitely not.
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    You specifically said, "I could care less about men who [are worried about being the victim of gender-based discrimination]."

    "I could care less" doesn't mean "there are bigger problems currently surrounding this issue", it means "I don't really care." I don't see how it's consistent for someone who specifically wants to see the end of gender-based discrimination to suddenly not care about it just because the victims of sexual abuse face a worse situation overall than the falsely accused. I do think that it would have bothered you more if it was a problem disproportionately faced by women instead of men, yes.
    Nope, just as somebody who suffered sexual abuse as a child, I can't abide the idea that society wants to give more sympathy to people who are wrongly accused than focussing on the real issue. Kids are being abused, and we live in a culture of not believing people who report sexual assault. The BBC article I linked implicitly states that the current system puts too much emphasis on whether the victim is lying, when really I think cases of children lying about abuse are extremely rare and surely are a sign of real problems if they are making such stories up.

    Being wrongly accused is bad, I'm not denying that. But everybody is innocent until proven guilty. Rumours are just rumours, and I don't think rumours about being a paedophile are anywhere near the level of suffering as children who really are sexually assaulted.
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    (Original post by Aramiss18)
    At working-class level, no. Definitely not.
    But I'm working class :P

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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Nope, just as somebody who suffered sexual abuse as a child, I can't abide the idea that society wants to give more sympathy to people who are wrongly accused than focussing on the real issue. Kids are being abused, and we live in a culture of not believing people who report sexual assault. The BBC article I linked implicitly states that the current system puts too much emphasis on whether the victim is lying, when really I think cases of children lying about abuse are extremely rare and surely are a sign of real problems if they are making such stories up.

    Being wrongly accused is bad, I'm not denying that. But everybody is innocent until proven guilty. Rumours are just rumours, and I don't think rumours about being a paedophile are anywhere near the level of suffering as children who really are sexually assaulted.
    I don't see how you could possibly think society wants to give more sympathy to people who are wrongly accused instead of the actual victims themselves - that's patently untrue and even in this thread which is specifically addressing "paedophile hysteria" [treating anyone who could possibly be a paedophile as the devil], people haven't been implying that being falsely accused is worse, they've just been pointing out that it's also very bad. It's not a competition, it's not one or the other, it is entirely possible to be concerned about both the actual victims and the falsely accused instead of just deciding you "could care less" about one group just because the problems faced by the other group are worse.
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    (Original post by WannabeCrypto)
    Yes I think it probably would be just as bad.

    Being falsely accused of being a paedophile would probably be hell. All your friends and family ostracising you etc? For somthing you didnt do? And its not just "A crime" In the eyes of many, its worse than muder (?) - and many would want to harass, torture and even kill you.

    People have topped themselves over that. Im sorry you got raped, but I dont think you are empathising with the complexity of the issue.

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    Everybody is innocent until proven guilty. The reason paedophilia is seen as worse than murder is because it ruins innocent children's lives, for ever. Do you not know how high the suicide rate is in people who have been abused?

    I literally cannot believe you think being falsely accused is worse than being abused. Clearly, you've never been sexually abused. It's not a picnic, it ruins your life forever and you never move on from it. And child abuse is vastly more common than false accusations of child abuse.
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    I don't see how you could possibly think society wants to give more sympathy to people who are wrongly accused instead of the actual victims themselves - that's patently untrue and even in this thread which is specifically addressing "paedophile hysteria" [treating anyone who could possibly be a paedophile as the devil], people haven't been implying that being falsely accused is worse, they've just been pointing out that it's also very bad. It's not a competition, it's not one or the other, it is entirely possible to be concerned about both the actual victims and the falsely accused instead of just deciding you "could care less" about one group just because the problems faced by the other group are worse.
    Fair point. I am just understandably biased, and all I'm giving is my opinion. Also, read a few posts up, some guy did just say that being wrongly accused was just as bad as being raped.

    My other point would be, how often are people actually falsely accused? Is this happening all the time? Is it some kind of terrible epidemic of false child abuse accusations? Feel free to prove me wrong with stats (I had a look online but can't find any) but as far as I know child abuse victims vastly outnumber false accusation victims. I think it is dangerous for people to assume that false accusations happen all the time, because it undermines victims who come forward to report what happened, and who are then treated like liars rather than victims.
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    (Original post by WannabeCrypto)
    But I'm working class :P

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    There will always be individuals but as a social strata I feel the working class will always have a "hang 'em" approach to crimes involving women and children or terrorism or unpatriotic sentiment. For example, go into a working class pub and say you don't think of soldiers as heroes but just as people doing a job they chose to do and watch their reactions. Hysteric. Tabloids just work to feed the rage.
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Everybody is innocent until proven guilty. The reason paedophilia is seen as worse than murder is because it ruins innocent children's lives, for ever. Do you not know how high the suicide rate is in people who have been abused?

    I literally cannot believe you think being falsely accused is worse than being abused. Clearly, you've never been sexually abused. It's not a picnic, it ruins your life forever and you never move on from it. And child abuse is vastly more common than false accusations of child abuse.
    Again, straw man - I said:
    Yes I think it probably would be just as bad
    Did I say it would be worse?


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    (Original post by WannabeCrypto)
    Children are growing up in fear and adults are living their lives in fear.
    I don't think the first part of this is true. The fear is all with the adults. Fear of being accused/fear of finding their child being abused. I really don't believe kids think about it.

    I work with children. I work in schools and as a ski instructor. I've currently got 3 CRBs. I've never had a single child ask me about the CRBs, ask me anything about the nature of my work with children. They just get on with it. (And as far as the skiing side goes, throwing themselves down the side of an icy mountain with two planks of wood strapped to their feet is by far the more frightening experience)

    The fear/anger/focus is all with adults. Whether interested parties (parents) or the media.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    I don't think the first part of this is true. The fear is all with the adults. Fear of being accused/fear of finding their child being abused. I really don't believe kids think about it.

    I work with children. I work in schools and as a ski instructor. I've currently got 3 CRBs. I've never had a single child ask me about the CRBs, ask me anything about the nature of my work with children. They just get on with it. (And as far as the skiing side goes, throwing themselves down the side of an icy mountain with two planks of wood strapped to their feet is by far the more frightening experience)

    The fear/anger/focus is all with adults. Whether interested parties (parents) or the media.
    Yes I agree actually.

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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Fair point. I am just understandably biased, and all I'm giving is my opinion. Also, read a few posts up, some guy did just say that being wrongly accused was just as bad as being raped.

    My other point would be, how often are people actually falsely accused? Is this happening all the time? Is it some kind of terrible epidemic of false child abuse accusations? Feel free to prove me wrong with stats (I had a look online but can't find any) but as far as I know child abuse victims vastly outnumber false accusation victims. I think it is dangerous for people to assume that false accusations happen all the time, because it undermines victims who come forward to report what happened, and who are then treated like liars rather than victims.
    I don't think false accusations are that common (found this) but googling about false allegations provides plenty of anecdotes like this which should make anyone feel sympathetic. I don't think that worrying about things like that undermines the actual victims at all, I think it just acknowledges the more complex nuances of the issue.

    Besides I think the salient theme of the thread, initially at least, was more about possible assumptions than outright accusations. And I know from my school days that assumptions of paedophilia, some jokey and some rather serious, are rampant. It is a shame, because now people will avoid a crying child out of fear, which is unnatural to us. I've never been accused of anything but I work in a supermarket and even I'm reluctant to show any sort of playful behaviour to a lone child that comes up to me, as much as I would like to because I think little kids and their imaginations are great, I just acknowledge them and then start looking around for their parents because I feel uncomfortable. I know a lot of people have similar concerns about being too friendly with other peoples' kids. It is a shame, regardless of how severe an issue child abuse is.
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    I can definently relate to the op. Having a sister 7 years younger than myself its always been an issue. Especially as she grew older and obviously did not want to be seen with her uncool parents anymore so she walks around with me if we go out as a family.

    And after a while you just get used to the odd looks, but its the people with "hero" complexes that do me. I cant count the amount of times I have come out of a shop whilst my sister waited and complete strangers (usually female) would start interrogating us. "Do you know this man?" "Are you sure?" "where are your parents?" "show me your ID" They acts as though they have stumbled across some mass criminal on the loose.

    Now days I honestly could not care, I understand these women are looking out for the kids, but I am ot going to feel dirty for no good reason. Now if people stop us we just laugh about it as she is older now.

    But yes, it is a huge problem. You cant even look in the direction of a kid without being branded as a pedo. To your question - Will britian ever escape it? - No probably not. The recent Jimmy Saville saga adds fuel the fire and shows that you never really know anyones intentions.

    Sad place to live when a dad cant be seen with his daughter or people like yourself will change career aspirations because they might be branded a pedo.

    But what can we do? We, our children, their children can not grow up in a society that would leave a crying child and walk on by for fear of being branded as a monster.
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    (Original post by Redolent)
    I don't think false accusations are that common (found this) but googling about false allegations provides plenty of anecdotes like this which should make anyone feel sympathetic. I don't think that worrying about things like that undermines the actual victims at all, I think it just acknowledges the more complex nuances of the issue.

    Besides I think the salient theme of the thread, initially at least, was more about possible assumptions than outright accusations. And I know from my school days that assumptions of paedophilia, some jokey and some rather serious, are rampant. It is a shame, because now people will avoid a crying child out of fear, which is unnatural to us. I've never been accused of anything but I work in a supermarket and even I'm reluctant to show any sort of playful behaviour to a lone child that comes up to me, as much as I would like to because I think little kids and their imaginations are great, I just acknowledge them and then start looking around for their parents because I feel uncomfortable. I know a lot of people have similar concerns about being too friendly with other peoples' kids. It is a shame, regardless of how severe an issue child abuse is.
    The hysteria is certainly a problem - my mum runs a brownie pack (7-10 year old girls) and I've helped out ever since I was a brownie. Up until I was 16 it was fine, but the minute I turned 16 I had to be CRB checked at my own expense, otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to help out - despite never being left alone with the children unsupervised.

    I'm glad that we can agree, I misinterpreted some of the posts which seemed to imply false accusations were a bigger problem than child abuse itself. Children are growing up too quickly these days, and things like padded bikini tops and high heels for small girls certainly don't help matters.
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    (Original post by ZoominglyFree)
    I can definently relate to the op. Having a sister 7 years younger than myself its always been an issue. Especially as she grew older and obviously did not want to be seen with her uncool parents anymore so she walks around with me if we go out as a family.

    And after a while you just get used to the odd looks, but its the people with "hero" complexes that do me. I cant count the amount of times I have come out of a shop whilst my sister waited and complete strangers (usually female) would start interrogating us. "Do you know this man?" "Are you sure?" "where are your parents?" "show me your ID" They acts as though they have stumbled across some mass criminal on the loose.

    Now days I honestly could not care, I understand these women are looking out for the kids, but I am ot going to feel dirty for no good reason. Now if people stop us we just laugh about it as she is older now.

    But yes, it is a huge problem. You cant even look in the direction of a kid without being branded as a pedo. To your question - Will britian ever escape it? - No probably not. The recent Jimmy Saville saga adds fuel the fire and shows that you never really know anyones intentions.

    Sad place to live when a dad cant be seen with his daughter or people like yourself will change career aspirations because they might be branded a pedo.

    But what can we do? We, our children, their children can not grow up in a society that would leave a crying child and walk on by for fear of being branded as a monster.
    Wow thats insane. What the ****!

    Somthing needs to change, but I dont see how and I dont even know what...

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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    The reason paedophilia is seen as worse than murder is because it ruins innocent children's lives, for ever. Do you not know how high the suicide rate is in people who have been abused?
    Can say exactly the same thing about being falsely accused though.
    You say innocent until proven guilty, but that really isn't how society sees it. If you are accused of molesting a child, most people do treat you as if you have already been found guilty.
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    (Original post by WannabeCrypto)
    Another barrier to constructive, rational discourse on the matter is the conflation of the words "Paedophile" and "Child Molestor". As far as I am aware, they mean completely different things, but not in the media/everyday vernacular.

    If the agenda is to protect children, then what good does forcing paedophiles to deal with their issues on their own do? Surely they need support so as not to act?

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    Yes, I only ever refer to paedophilia as the disposition towards finding children attractive.

    And yeah you're right - if we want to stop paedophiles committing crimes, we need to stop isolating them and making them feel like outsiders. If we treat them as criminals before they've even done anything, exactly how should we expect them to act?
 
 
 
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