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    Hey guys, I'm new to TSR so I don't know if i'm in the right forums.
    I really want to do Business Law (or Business with Law) and go on to become a solicitor or barrister but I don't know if im even good enough to be able to compete with other people, I'm currently doing my As Levels which is Business Studies, Law and Media Studies. I do know that media studies seems a bit irrelevant but I really like the subject but I don't really know if i'm good enough to get into uni. Should I also take an additional next year if I've done well enough to be able to continue?
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    If you want to be a solicitor or barrister you need really good A Level results, like AAB and above to get in to the best universities. It really matters what university you go to if you want to get anywhere in Law.

    As well as this, you need to make sure that the course is a qualifying law degree as, if it isn't, you won't be able to be a solicitor or barrister. (It will tell you on programme specifications online whether a course is a qualifying law degree or not).

    If you don't have great A Levels (Example you got BBC or something) you would need work experience (within a legal setting such as in a law firm, or with the CAB etc) and a strong personal statement to push your application.

    Law is a pretty hard subject. Not hard, perhaps that is the wrong word. It can be rather boring and, if you aren't really into it, you can easily fail. As you HAVE to sit seven certain modules in order for the degree to be a qualifying law degree.

    I studied A Level Law and it was a breeze compared to a law degree. A Level is about describe this and that, whereas degree is more about criticising what people have said and so forth.

    You could apply for a foundation Law degree (a 2 year course) which will ease you in to studying Law at degree level. You'll then do a one year top up course to make it a full law degree.

    Media Studies is considered a bit of a 'soft' subject to universities. You would need 3 A Levels to get in to a university, so you could drop it after AS and take up History or something humanity like. But you would need 3 full A Levels.
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    (Original post by Klauseikins)
    Hey guys, I'm new to TSR so I don't know if i'm in the right forums.
    I really want to do Business Law (or Business with Law) and go on to become a solicitor or barrister but I don't know if im even good enough to be able to compete with other people, I'm currently doing my As Levels which is Business Studies, Law and Media Studies. I do know that media studies seems a bit irrelevant but I really like the subject but I don't really know if i'm good enough to get into uni. Should I also take an additional next year if I've done well enough to be able to continue?
    you could very likely go to somewhere like Birm, exeter, sheff, others spring to mind...probably not the top 6 unis(oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Durham, nottingham, these unis may or may not be top 6 but they are all fairly nazi on A levels and GCSE's) for law but all below are fair game if you get three A's or similar to that, also think about doing LNATs...could help your app at higher institutes if you do well. Also you will need work experience regardless of your grades so get applying now!
    Give it a bosh like 'seemingly' every other person in the world right now and enjoy competing with other BA students for that 1 in 60 training contract !
    Its going to be a fun number of years for you !
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    (Original post by lionboy)
    you could very likely go to somewhere like Birm, exeter, sheff, others spring to mind...probably not the top 6 unis(oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Durham, nottingham, these unis may or may not be top 6 but they are all fairly nazi on A levels and GCSE's) for law but all below are fair game if you get three A's or similar to that, also think about doing LNATs...could help your app at higher institutes if you do well. Also you will need work experience regardless of your grades so get applying now!
    Give it a bosh like 'seemingly' every other person in the world right now and enjoy competing with other BA students for that 1 in 60 training contract !
    Its going to be a fun number of years for you !
    1 in 60? I've never seen that figure given before.


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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    1 in 60? I've never seen that figure given before.


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    haha worrying isn't it .. and sorry got the number wrong http://l2b.thelawyer.com/65-students...008370.article
    obviously its only a statistic so please chill out if you're about to pick it apart ...its just a good example of how competitive it is out there
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    (Original post by lionboy)
    haha worrying isn't it .. and sorry got the number wrong http://l2b.thelawyer.com/65-students...008370.article
    obviously its only a statistic so please chill out if you're about to pick it apart ...its just a good example of how competitive it is out there
    No no, no intention to pick it apart. If anything I was surprised it was so low. I understand it's more like 1 in 100 applicants for top 50 firms.

    Important to remember though that many of those 65 will apply to dozens if firms but will never secure more than 1 TC.


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    Ok the first response is drastically uninformed. I am currently a second year law student at a university that is not considered to be a 'top' uni. as an aspiring barrister i know that for every pupillage i am looking at about 1 in 10. as solicitors you are looking at roughly the same stats. 1 in 60 in preposterous.
    furthermore, the which uni u go to thing is less of an issue than it was say 15 yrs ago. it will matter if you are looking at london firms/sets working in commercial areas of law. but if you look to provincial firms/sets then the university thing is less an issue.
    i say go for it. i have average a levels but am getting continuous firsts in my degree and am acquiring mass w/exp as i go.
    if you want it go for it


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    (Original post by hazelnut1)
    Ok the first response is drastically uninformed. I am currently a second year law student at a university that is not considered to be a 'top' uni. as an aspiring barrister i know that for every pupillage i am looking at about 1 in 10. as solicitors you are looking at roughly the same stats. 1 in 60 in preposterous.
    It's nothing like that for solicitors. There are only slightly fewer TCs than LPC graduates, and even when you count in the previous years' graduates, most people who complete the LPC will get a training contract. The opposite is true for people doing the BVC/BPTC - most of them won't.
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    I understand it's more like 1 in 100 applicants for top 50 firms.
    If it is such a figure, it would be because law grads etc are applying to firms for which they are entirely unsuited, and many grads seem to forget about the small to medium sized firms which, I'm led to believe, offer about 60% of the training contracts.

    Equally, I find it hard to believe that top commercial firms are more competitive than the bar, which would be about a 1 in 6 chance all things being equal.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    It's nothing like that for solicitors. There are only slightly fewer TCs than LPC graduates, and even when you count in the previous years' graduates, most people who complete the LPC will get a training contract. The opposite is true for people doing the BVC/BPTC - most of them won't.
    This. There are many thousands of training contracts offered each year in England and Wales (6,000 if I recall correctly?)
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    (Original post by MostUncivilised)
    This. There are many thousands of training contracts offered each year in England and Wales (6,000 if I recall correctly?)
    I believe there are a little under 6000. There are c.7000 LPC 'graduates'. Then there are a couple of thousand GDL students applying, 2nd year and final year law students, non law final year people AND past graduates.

    Most of those on the LPC will get TCs eventually... But that doesn't account for all those who don't even make it to that stage and give up on a law career before it due to a lack of TC success.


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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    I believe there are a little under 6000. There are c.7000 LPC 'graduates'. Then there are a couple of thousand GDL students applying, 2nd year and final year law students, non law final year people AND past graduates.

    Most of those on the LPC will get TCs eventually... But that doesn't account for all those who don't even make it to that stage and give up on a law career before it due to a lack of TC success.


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    All good points. Love the handle btw Thinking for me, WestLaw was my Chain Saw? No?

    *hangs head in shame*
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    (Original post by hazelnut1)
    Ok the first response is drastically uninformed. I am currently a second year law student at a university that is not considered to be a 'top' uni. as an aspiring barrister i know that for every pupillage i am looking at about 1 in 10. as solicitors you are looking at roughly the same stats. 1 in 60 in preposterous.
    furthermore, the which uni u go to thing is less of an issue than it was say 15 yrs ago. it will matter if you are looking at london firms/sets working in commercial areas of law. but if you look to provincial firms/sets then the university thing is less an issue.
    i say go for it. i have average a levels but am getting continuous firsts in my degree and am acquiring mass w/exp as i go.
    if you want it go for it


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    um rude and just because you go to a below par uni for law does that mean you are informed ???
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    I believe there are a little under 6000. There are c.7000 LPC 'graduates'. Then there are a couple of thousand GDL students applying, 2nd year and final year law students, non law final year people AND past graduates.

    Most of those on the LPC will get TCs eventually... But that doesn't account for all those who don't even make it to that stage and give up on a law career before it due to a lack of TC success.


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    In the year March 2012 to February 2013 (so TCs starting March 2010 to February 2011 give or take some with time allowed and 3 year traineeships) 3372 people with QLDs and 1986 non-law graduates were admitted to the roll. A slightly different way of counting, the number of training contacts entered into between August 2010 to July 2011, gives a figure of 5441.

    The Law Society estimated that in 2009 17433 students graduated with a QLD. The people who started traineeships in September 2010 would (if law graduates and without breaks) have commenced their law degrees in autumn 2006, graduated in 2009 and done their LPCs in 2009/10.

    With regard to the argument that there is no surfeit of LPC graduates this letter to the Gazette sheds some light on the statistics:

    http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/opinion/...reer-prospects
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    (Original post by hazelnut1)
    as an aspiring barrister i know that for every pupillage i am looking at about 1 in 10.
    This isn't right by an order of magnitude. In 2011 2865 applicants submitted at least one pupillage portal application. Very few pupillage applicants will only have applied for pupillage outside of the portal. Most will have submitted the maximum number of 12 applications. A significant proportion of pupillages are applied for off the portal. In excess of 40,000 individual applications are likely to be made each year. 446 pupillages were registered that year. Accordingly for each pupillage you are looking at a figure of nearer 100 applicants.

    The average applicant's overall chance of success is around 1 in 7 and it may be that which is confusing you. Of course many applicants are not average. Some will have near 1:1 chances of success and others won't get a pupillage in a month of Sundays.

    furthermore, the which uni u go to thing is less of an issue than it was say 15 yrs ago.
    On the contrary it is much more of an issue today as can be seen by looking at the biographies of members of chambers. Older barristers are much less likely to have attended elite universities.

    The reason is that before the introduction of paid pupillages there were between 700-900 pupillages a year. Most candidates of any ability achieved a pupillage. A lot of pupils never gained a tenancy but tenancies were awarded on performance during pupillage. Therefore there was far less emphasis on prior academic attainment.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    In the year March 2012 to February 2013 (so TCs starting March 2010 to February 2011 give or take some with time allowed and 3 year traineeships) 3372 people with QLDs and 1986 non-law graduates were admitted to the roll. A slightly different way of counting, the number of training contacts entered into between August 2010 to July 2011, gives a figure of 5441.

    The Law Society estimated that in 2009 17433 students graduated with a QLD. The people who started traineeships in September 2010 would (if law graduates and without breaks) have commenced their law degrees in autumn 2006, graduated in 2009 and done their LPCs in 2009/10.

    With regard to the argument that there is no surfeit of LPC graduates this letter to the Gazette sheds some light on the statistics:

    http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/opinion/...reer-prospects
    Good point.


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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    This isn't right by an order of magnitude. In 2011 2865 applicants submitted at least one pupillage portal application. Very few pupillage applicants will only have applied for pupillage outside of the portal. Most will have submitted the maximum number of 12 applications. A significant proportion of pupillages are applied for off the portal. In excess of 40,000 individual applications are likely to be made each year. 446 pupillages were registered that year. Accordingly for each pupillage you are looking at a figure of nearer 100 applicants.

    The average applicant's overall chance of success is around 1 in 7 and it may be that which is confusing you. Of course many applicants are not average. Some will have near 1:1 chances of success and others won't get a pupillage in a month of Sundays.



    On the contrary it is much more of an issue today as can be seen by looking at the biographies of members of chambers. Older barristers are much less likely to have attended elite universities.

    The reason is that before the introduction of paid pupillages there were between 700-900 pupillages a year. Most candidates of any ability achieved a pupillage. A lot of pupils never gained a tenancy but tenancies were awarded on performance during pupillage. Therefore there was far less emphasis on prior academic attainment.

    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    Good point.


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    ...well that will teach me to drop statistics into TSR...why does everyone freak out?
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    (Original post by lionboy)
    ...well that will teach me to drop statistics into TSR...why does everyone freak out?
    Incredible as it might seem, TSR is just about the most reliable source of information out there. We are not selling anything. We are all wasting our time procrastinating. We search out data and there is sufficient breadth of knowledge to spot when data is misleading or likely to be just plain wrong.

    Meddle with it at your peril!
 
 
 
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