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Manchester United were graceless in defeat Watch

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    Following last night's game against Real Madrid, the ref was vilified for an apparently shocking decision. Nani's tackle on Arbeloa was just as bad as the one form Eboue against United in 2008. No one criticised that decision The decision was contentious, but the ref had a case for sending him off.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...t58FCs3k#at=14

    Irrespective of that, everyone is trying to portray United as the victim of an awful refereeing display. Not so. If you watch the match again you'll see that Madrid had a completely valid goal disallowed and Rafael handballed it on the line. That's not to mention all the questionable decisions United have got in the past.United fans seem to forget that in an odd form of selective amnesia.

    Even if the ref was wrong, abusing him on twitter was totally out of order. Some Man U fans even threatened his family. Let's not forget the Man U fan who rang the police becuase the ref's decision was "criminal".

    Still, I suppose this is to be expected from some United fans when their own team behave in such a reprehensible manner. Ferdinand clapping sarcastically in the ref's face was out of order and Ferguson refusing to give an interview because he was "distraught" is pathetic from such an experienced manager.

    The witch-hunt from the British media has already commenced. The Daily Mail (who else?) went to harass the referee at the airport this morning.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...al-Madrid.html

    To conclude, I think the Man U manager, players and a number of fans showed a lack of class as they could not accept defeat. The media, especially ITV, has not covered itself in glory either.

    Thoughts? I know lots of you on here are United fans but before you neg me, at least read my post and see if there are any points on here you can actually contest.
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    Its natural to be angry when you lose, when your standards are so high, its what makes a winner a winner, they dont like losing and they show it.the lack of proffesionalism was there for all to be seen but they arent the first to react like this and they wont be the last.
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    Well Arsenal were already losing 3-0...
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Still, I suppose this is to be expected from some United fans when their own team behave in such a reprehensible manner. Ferdinand clapping sarcastically in the ref's face was out of order and Ferguson refusing to give an interview because he was "distraught" is pathetic from such an experienced manager.
    The reason supporters and players get so wound up about referees is that to them these decisions are almost indescribably important. This was the Champions League against Real Madrid. Some of the players will never have played in such a huge match - some of them might never do so again. For the fans, there is a large emotional investment. These things can get taken away, apparently unjustly by bad decision making or incompetence. And for the referee, it's just another day at work, ho-hum, move on, next please, and all else being equal he will still get paid and have all the same opportunities in his career.
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    Look at how Chelsea players responded after the 2009 semi-final against Barcelona when they - rightly - aggrieved by the decisions that went against them. Footballers are humans, not robots where they can grin and smile off any aggreivance.

    Nice of you to omit that Ferdinand did actually shake hands with the referee afterwards, a sign that he realised he may have gone OTT and realised he may get in trouble and not setting a great example.

    Chelsea (whether lead by Mourinho, or the club hierarchy or fans) saw Frisk into retirement and death threats against Ovrebo, the referee of the 2009 semi final.

    Football, like any other sport is a passionate game. Emotions run high. Minority of fans over-egg the situation to the point where they unacceptably engage in threats to officials, players round on the ref after the match - it happens when big trophies are at stake.
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    In my opinion it shows everything that is wrong with modern football when the day after this match you have:

    Man united facing sanctions over not fullfilling media duties..

    And not the ref facing sacntiosn after ruining the biggest match of the season, with an unjust (agreed by most.. not all..) Red card..
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    even Mourinho said the best team lost
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    United players ALWAYS surround the refs following any kind of controvertial decision. Nothing gets said though.

    Lol, people are seriously saying it 'ruined' the match?! If this went United's way nobody would be moaning (And don't) therefore I don't give a dead moose's last crap about the decision. Been on the receiving end of it enough.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    In my opinion it shows everything that is wrong with modern football when the day after this match you have:

    Man united facing sanctions over not fullfilling media duties..

    And not the ref facing sacntiosn after ruining the biggest match of the season, with an unjust (agreed by most.. not all..) Red card..
    I really don't understand this red card debate. I saw it and thought it's a bit harsh but i can see why the ref has given it. It looks dangerous, some are given most aren't. It's probably more of a yellow card but the referee sees it as dangerous play and sent him off. Fair game.

    (Original post by Ace123)
    even Mourinho said the best team lost
    Was an odd statement to say. Both teams were pretty even before the red and then Madrid dominated.
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    (Original post by Gob Bluth)
    I really don't understand this red card debate. I saw it and thought it's a bit harsh but i can see why the ref has given it. It looks dangerous, some are given most aren't. It's probably more of a yellow card but the referee sees it as dangerous play and sent him off. Fair game.


    Was an odd statement to say. Both teams were pretty even before the red and then Madrid dominated.
    they were reasonably even.. but unites plan was working like a charm.. madrid had more possession, but united had the goal, and the more dangerous chances - madrid were pretty much shut out, before the card. - I would have been confident, before the card, of at worst it ending 1-1, possibly even 2-1 to united..

    + for the first bit.. I can see why the ref gave it, as its a high boot.. but I agree with most (except keane) of the pundits/comentators, who just couldnt believe it.. - the key term in the rule book is 'excessive force' - which I personally dont think was used, as far as nani was concerned, he was just briging the ball under control..

    keanes whole thing of 'but he should be aware that there are other players about' - is rubish, so what? you should never raise your boot, unless you have checked all around you?? it would never work, and doesnt happen..
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    Not the same. Eboue was no where near the ball, the ball hit Nani's foot before Arbeloa did if I'm not mistaken.
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    You're making it sound like no other fans behave this way..

    not to mention refs often get death threats for bad/wrong calls..
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    (Original post by Clip)
    The reason supporters and players get so wound up about referees is that to them these decisions are almost indescribably important. This was the Champions League against Real Madrid. Some of the players will never have played in such a huge match - some of them might never do so again. For the fans, there is a large emotional investment. These things can get taken away, apparently unjustly by bad decision making or incompetence. And for the referee, it's just another day at work, ho-hum, move on, next please, and all else being equal he will still get paid and have all the same opportunities in his career.
    It wasn't the referee's fault they lost. Even with 10 men, they could have held on but they lost their focus and Madrid took advantage. The referee is being used as a scapegoat since it sounds nicer to say they were cheated than to say they lost. Only in football is it acceptable to harass a referee both on and off the pitch. It needs stamping out but that's not going to work if players like Ferdinand, who is part of the "Respect" Campaign does this. I know it's not just United who do this but this is the most prominent example.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    In my opinion it shows everything that is wrong with modern football when the day after this match you have:

    Man united facing sanctions over not fullfilling media duties..

    And not the ref facing sacntiosn after ruining the biggest match of the season, with an unjust (agreed by most.. not all..) Red card..
    Why should the ref face sanctions for applying the letter of the law? Besides he didn't ruin the game, the most exciting part of the game was the 30 minutes after Nani got sent off.
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Why should the ref face sanctions for applying the letter of the law? Besides he didn't ruin the game, the most exciting part of the game was the 30 minutes after Nani got sent off.
    the letter of the law is not clear. it can be interpreted to mean many things, and apply to many situations.

    As you would expect when trying to make rules about a game with as many possilbilities as football.. 'dangerous play' can mean many many things, and very few are ever given cards..

    Its down to the refs interpretation of the rules (as not every possible sceario is listed..) and in this case.. the vast vast majority disagree with the refs rulling (as can be seen by the sheer disbelief in football pundits/comentators)
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Why should the ref face sanctions for applying the letter of the law? Besides he didn't ruin the game, the most exciting part of the game was the 30 minutes after Nani got sent off.
    I've had another look at this, because I was only half listening to Adrian Chiles et al. last night, and I don't think that the referee did apply the law correctly. The rules define excessive force as follows:

    "Excessive force means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent."

    I don't think it can be said that Nani "far exceeded the necessary force", so in my eyes, he didn't break this rule; a yellow card would have been the correct response.

    The referee may not have ruined the game as a spectacle, but he certainly affected the outcome, which was the most disappointing aspect of the whole thing. Referees should err on the side of leniency with unintentional offences, because a red card can have such a huge effect on the result; if in doubt, let the game take its course.
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    Man U fans complaining like as if they never get every decision. Should be reminded about the game with Chelsea earlier this season at Stamford Bridge.


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    (Original post by tengentoppa)

    To conclude, I think the Man U manager, players and a number of fans showed a lack of class as they could not accept defeat. The media, especially ITV, has not covered itself in glory either.

    Thoughts? I know lots of you on here are United fans but before you neg me, at least read my post and see if there are any points on here you can actually contest.
    Well I don't recall Rafael handballing anything and the Real goal was scored when everyone stopped playing.

    All Nani EVER did was look at the ball, and jump to control it. He did not kick the other player with any great force, as you can see Nani gets spun around by his boot.

    The other player then rolls around as if he has lost a limb.

    It's always a British team getting a player sent off in these ties, not because they are dirty hackers but because teams (esp. Real and Barcelona), try and win, and if they aren't they switch plans and game game game the referee to get opposition players sent off.

    Simple plan: Try and win, but if you can't beat 11 men then roll around on the floor until you only have to play against 10 men. Then celebrate your farcical "victory".

    Time was when you actually had to do something to get sent off. Nowadays all you have to do is try and control the ball with your foot.

    Eventually we will have the technology to prove that a player isn't actually in any pain. Until then, football is an inferior forum in which to exhibit defeat, which is the whole point of sport (along with victory).

    Look at Alonso's face when he standing there after the race in Brazil in 2012. Look at Jonny Wilkinson's face when he kicks the drop-goal to win England the world cup, or Leigh Halfpenny's face when Wales lost to France in the world cup. Look at Andy Murray (or Andy Roddick) when he just lost the Wimbledon final to Roger Federer. Look at Steve Davis when he just missed the final black in and lost the world championship final in 1985. Look at Michael Vaughan's face when Geraint Jones takes the catch at Edgbaston in 2005.

    That's victory and defeat.

    Quite what we saw last night I don't know.
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    It wasn't the referee's fault they lost. Even with 10 men, they could have held on but they lost their focus and Madrid took advantage. The referee is being used as a scapegoat since it sounds nicer to say they were cheated than to say they lost. Only in football is it acceptable to harass a referee both on and off the pitch. It needs stamping out but that's not going to work if players like Ferdinand, who is part of the "Respect" Campaign does this. I know it's not just United who do this but this is the most prominent example.
    You're right, the correct responses is not to hassle the referee. The correct response, is the very first time that an opposition player feigns agony, walk off.

    Refuse to play. Say you won't play until they stop doing it.
 
 
 
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