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M154 - Hugo Chavez Memorial Motion Watch

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    M154 - Hugo Chavez Memorial Motion, TSR SocialistThis House sends its best wishes and condolences to the family and friends of Hugo Chavez at this difficult time, and wishes to commend his great service as President of Venezuela. The democratic revolution he presided over has seen many victories, most notably the expansion of literacy and learning to the working class, the drastic fall in the infant mortality rate brought about by the introduction of public healthcare, and the massive reductions in both poverty and inequality during the last decade. This House also wishes the State of Venezuela a stable transition to a new presidency.
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    Aye.
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    Aye.
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    Aye!
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    Only if Kim Jong-Il gets a look-in too.
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    Surprise, surprise, it's the Socialists and the Greens. Shall we throw them in there for every 'socialist' leader that just managed not to commit mass murder, instead only an opressive regime?
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    (Original post by Jarred)
    M154 - Hugo Chavez Memorial Motion, TSR SocialistThis House sends its best wishes and condolences to the family and friends of Hugo Chavez at this difficult time, and wishes to commend his great service as President of Venezuela. The democratic revolution he presided over has seen many victories, most notably the expansion of literacy and learning to the working class, the drastic fall in the infant mortality rate brought about by the introduction of public healthcare, and the massive reductions in both poverty and inequality during the last decade. This House also wishes the State of Venezuela a stable transition to a new presidency.

    Nay, nay, a thousand times nay.

    Half of the productive people of Venezuela have moved to Florida. He was nothing more than a Castro, but one with some oil. But I understand oil production in Venezuela has plummeted under his management, or should I say mismanagement. The people who actually know how to do things have left the country. Once the socialists are done stealing everyone else's money, they won't have any more money to fund their social welfare programs. You are obviously misinformed about the true state of Venezuela. Crime is out of control, and consumer products are almost non-existent. The country produces nothing. It just hands out welfare checks. The reason he could win elections is that it is very popular to tell someone who is poor "why don't we take the money that the person living in a nice house, with a nice car, has and give it to you instead". It is almost impossible to do business now in Venezuela, because companies cannot obtain supplies. A hamburger at McDonald's cost $15. Now, that being said, the rich people of Venezuela kind of got what they deserved, because my not instituting sufficient social welfare programs while they were in power, they allowed a populist to take power. This is very similar to America, where Obama promised everyone free health care, and free cell phones, and free college. Of course, someone with no money is going to say "that's a great idea".
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    It is extremely disappointing that my fellow party members, have decided to forgo internationalism by the looks of it.

    Frankly, I'm not sure Chavez deserves anything more than a so long from us (i.e. a party of committed international socialists)



    No one ever promoted socialism by teaming up with distinctly anti-socialist entities like Islamists and Baathists. Chavez counted amongst his mates intensely pro-capitalist, nepotistic, reactionary, and ultra-conservative folk like the Ayatollahs in Iran, the former Baathist regime in Iraq, Gaddafi and other dictators and serial violaters of human rights. He was willing to shake hands and embrance leaders who were responsible for the systematic eradication of worker's rights in their countries and who have the blood of thousands of socialists and communists (whether Iranian or Iraqi or otherwise) on their hands. You can dress it up however you like, for example by claiming that Chavez got matey with Saddam to strengthen his own position in order to help the Venezuelan people, but if that's true, he did so by legitimising fascist regimes and selling out another group of people. That should not be something which the TSR Socialists condone and it's certainly not something which I condone.

    If socialism is anything, it is international and the fact that my fellow party members seem to have forgotten this fact in the wake of Chavez's death is extremely disappointing and very bemusing, especially considering the TSR Socialist Party's long history of anti-authoritarianism and refusal to come under the questionable banner of the SWP/George Galloway's school of "socialism".

    Perhaps I will be looked down on (within the party) for making this post, but I refuse to be associated with this motion.

    And just to be clear, the conservative/right wing objections to Chavez are as objectionable and misguided as this motion in my view, but I'm not here to partake in a debate...so those of you on the Right, don't get the wrong idea from my post
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    As someone who has spent considerable time in the Bolivarian republic of Venezuela, (Caracas, Porlamar and San Cristobal de Tachira) I would disagree heartily with your motion.

    Hugo Chavez Frias was a man obsessed with his own image and legacy. He did do work in the social sector with homes and healthcare, but having surrounded himself with toadys and yes men, he dragged Venezuela down into the gutter and let the people of that proud nation down.

    Poverty, hyper inflation, destroyed industries, barren farmland and rampant crime are the result of his policies of appeasement of a dictator (Castro), and his cuddling up to all of the morally bankrupt and distrusted regimes around the world. (Cuba, Syria, Lybia, N Korea, Iran)

    I do hope that some of you have some first hand knowledge of this subject, and not just offering politicians platitudes.
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    (Original post by Liftman)
    As someone who has spent considerable time in the Bolivarian republic of Venezuela, (Caracas, Porlamar and San Cristobal de Tachira) I would disagree heartily with your motion.

    Hugo Chavez Frias was a man obsessed with his own image and legacy. He did do work in the social sector with homes and healthcare, but having surrounded himself with toadys and yes men, he dragged Venezuela down into the gutter and let the people of that proud nation down.

    Poverty, hyper inflation, destroyed industries, barren farmland and rampant crime are the result of his policies of appeasement of a dictator (Castro), and his cuddling up to all of the morally bankrupt and distrusted regimes around the world. (Cuba, Syria, Lybia, N Korea, Iran)

    I do hope that some of you have some first hand knowledge of this subject, and not just offering politicians platitudes.
    Thanks for the input. I will be voting no for the reasons you expressed most eloquently.
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    aye
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    Only if we get a larger one of Thatcher standing right next to it.
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    Nay, horrible man.
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    Let me think about this.... No.
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    Even though I disagree with many of his policies, I shall say aye. What happened to de mortuis nil nisi bonum?
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    What hapenned to to the socialist policy of every member must agree with an item or it gets released by the member who wrote it?

    Or have the far-left of the party decided to take after the authoratarianism that they see in Chavez's friends?

    This motion is just another confirmation my decision to leave was right.
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    (Original post by Krollo)
    Even though I disagree with many of his policies, I shall say aye. What happened to de mortuis nil nisi bonum?
    Unless you genuinely think not a bad word should be said about Hitler, Genghis Khan or Stalin that phrase is a pile of rubbish.
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    God no.
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    'Nay'.

    Whilst he was an improvement on the standard socialist in that he held elections deemed free and fair, the effects of his extremist policies were just as bad.
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    (Original post by The Mad Dog)
    Unless you genuinely think not a bad word should be said about Hitler, Genghis Khan or Stalin that phrase is a pile of rubbish.
    Sorry, I was a little unclear. Of course it does not apply in all situations, but I appreciate it in theory, especially immediately following their deaths.
 
 
 
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