Join TSR now for chat about life, relationships, fashion and more…Sign up now

How to tell a friend to be more realistic on job search? Watch

    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    A very good friend from school is struggling to find a job. He did a degree film studies. His dream job is being a producer / director.

    Seven months is gone and he still struggles to find any paid job. He moves from one unpaid internship to another, while living on benefits and handout from his parents.
    He refuses to apply to any paid job outside production. I suggested him to apply for a marketing role in my company. He refused, saying that it is too commercial. He is worried that he would be 'stuck' in marketing forever. Through staff referral, an interview is guaranteed. Marketing is not bad. The pay is excellent for a graduate. He thinks that if he give up now, the time spent on the degree in the last three yr would be 'wasted'.

    He still thinks that the 'office skills' that he learned from his internship can land him a permanently job eventually. Office skills, as in photocopying and filing. He cannot really use Excel.

    He is increasing hostile towards me whenever I suggest him to broaden his job search. He thinks I am an evil person working in finance. Despite having no income, he would tip a few quid on top of the 12.5% service charge. He thinks I am very stingy for not tipping further. Tbh, isn't that 12.5% tip? I don't spend like him because I know how hard it is to earn money. I have bills and student loan to pay.

    We have been very good friends since school. Now we are drifting apart

    The longer he wait, the harder it will be for him to find a job that pay. There are many film studies graduates every year but there are not many full-time producer roles out there. At least he can accept other paid role in a media company, waiting for any opportunities to come up. It is contraversal that he would accept unpaid internship doing admin work but not any 'permanent' paid role in a media company, fearing that he would be stuck in that post forever.

    He should be more realistic on his job search. I want to help him but I don't know what to do.

    Anyone? :confused:






    Not sure if it is the right place to post this. Please move it to the Career section if necessary.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    If you wanted to help him, you should have stopped him the day he decided to apply to film studies. But it's not your job either way.
    There are no jobs in film. Really. A bit like acting, or music, or art. You have to create a job for yourself, because there is no need for you. We have the entertainment we need.
    If you want to create a position for yourself, and this is done by:
    1) Using connections through family
    2) Use your extraordinary talent to make a film using the money you've inherited (£2 mill minimum).
    If you have none of those, you're **** out of luck. I have two friends who have had semi-important film work, and they're both born into über-rich and connected families. If you have NO connections, just apply for the till at Tesco.
    Director/producer is even more difficult than acting, because it takes a LOT for you to prove any potential talent, it can actually only be done once anyone's decided to sponsor you. You can't just go to an audition. Unless he has a few million spare, I advice him to just pursue another education while he's young.
    Your friend pursued an education leading nowhere, and now he's paying for it. If you want to kick him into reality, show him this post. Otherwise, just be straight with him. It is his choice, and it really has nothing to do with you, but I understand it is difficult to be friends with someone who's so far off the ground. I have a friend studying fashion, but at least she is expecting to spend her twenties doing free internships.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by Millie228)
    If you wanted to help him, you should have stopped him the day he decided to apply to film studies. But it's not your job either way.
    There are no jobs in film. Really. A bit like acting, or music, or art. You have to create a job for yourself, because there is no need for you. We have the entertainment we need.
    If you want to create a position for yourself, and this is done by:
    1) Using connections through family
    2) Use your extraordinary talent to make a film using the money you've inherited (£2 mill minimum).
    If you have none of those, you're **** out of luck. I have two friends who have had semi-important film work, and they're both born into über-rich and connected families. If you have NO connections, just apply for the till at Tesco.
    Director/producer is even more difficult than acting, because it takes a LOT for you to prove any potential talent, it can actually only be done once anyone's decided to sponsor you. You can't just go to an audition. Unless he has a few million spare, I advice him to just pursue another education while he's young.
    Your friend pursued an education leading nowhere, and now he's paying for it. If you want to kick him into reality, show him this post. Otherwise, just be straight with him. It is his choice, and it really has nothing to do with you, but I understand it is difficult to be friends with someone who's so far off the ground. I have a friend studying fashion, but at least she is expecting to spend her twenties doing free internships.
    Forgot to mention, he spent like 10k on a master in film studies. His parents can't support him again if he wants to do a PhD in film studies.

    It seems that it is impossible for him to find anything close to what he wants to do. To make things worse, friends around him are equally unrealistic.
    This group of friends from school did degrees that are not leading to anything. From
    drama, classic, art, psychology, politics to film studies. I am the odd one who did a STEM subject. We used to be very good friends. Now I don't have time to go out with them considering I work 12 hr a day while they are mostly unemployed. The one who did politics ended up wt he is earning money. The one who did psychology struggles to find anything at all. The one who is doing art is working as a waitress.

    They all encourage his to keep his dream and never give up on it. They think the government has responsibility to support them so it is ok to keep doing unpaid work and claim benefits. I am slowly being pushed away from this group of friends because I work I am now seen as the evil capitalist sucking their blood money.

    Does anyone happen to lose their friends because they work? I feel like I am in a different stage of life.

    He got 3As in A-levels. He is a clever person. I really wish I could help.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    It's not really any of your business.

    And not all of the degrees you mentioned in the above post are completely useless.

    It sounds like the reason you are drifting apart is because you look down your nose at him and his friends.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    I'm kind of torn, because I don't like advising people to give up on their dreams, but I agree with you that a producer role seems unlikely at this stage, and meanwhile the taxpayer (of which I admit I am not one) is funding him.

    Ultimately you don't have a say of course, but perhaps you could try a slightly different tack by pointing out how having a job at your company or somewhere else is a far better approach to achieving what he wants? It will give him money, experience, connections, and ultimately there is usually a way of tailoring your career path in the direction that you want. Make him feel like it's a positive step, and he's not giving up - you don't want him to feel like a failure.

    As to the rest of your friends, don't burn your bridges, but if you feel like you are at a different stage of life, perhaps you just are? Just be friends with everyone, and if you feel like moving on, move on.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by Octohedral)
    I'm kind of torn, because I don't like advising people to give up on their dreams, but I agree with you that a producer role seems unlikely at this stage, and meanwhile the taxpayer (of which I admit I am not one) is funding him.

    Ultimately you don't have a say of course, but perhaps you could try a slightly different tack by pointing out how having a job at your company or somewhere else is a far better approach to achieving what he wants? It will give him money, experience, connections, and ultimately there is usually a way of tailoring your career path in the direction that you want. Make him feel like it's a positive step, and he's not giving up - you don't want him to feel like a failure.

    As to the rest of your friends, don't burn your bridges, but if you feel like you are at a different stage of life, perhaps you just are? Just be friends with everyone, and if you feel like moving on, move on.

    Thank you for the positive response. I pointed out the money thing buy he does not recognise any skills or joy he could get from doing a marketing job.

    I said to him, that marketing has to come up with creative ideas, making TV commercial.
    Next time I will try to make the role more interesting.


    I've sort of moved on and spend a lot more time with the other group of geeky friends who are as busy as me. It is just this film studies guy is a very good friend. I don't want to give up on him.
    There are a lot of things I can't share with him. We used to talk about everything.
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    This is unfortunately a part of life, OP. People grow up and drift apart as your goals and aspirations change. Your friend is apparently a clever person in a difficult stage at his life. He's naively gone into a career path that he loved, while knowing of the difficulties involved, and is now paying the piper. Who knows? Maybe after all his struggles, he might actually make it somewhere? Or maybe he'll become bitter and die on the dole.

    Either way, you've done your bit by offering to help. He clearly doesn't want it. So leave him be. The day your friend is in a position to accept your help, he will ask for it. By forcing it on him, you're pushing him in a corner and that is driving the two of you apart even further.

    If you really want to maintain your friendship with this person, respect his career and life choices, do not express your disapproval, and support blindly. He knows your opinion of his choices at this point, there's no reason to rub it in his face and offer help when he hasn't asked for it.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    You can only help someone who wants to help themselves. You've advised him and basically offered him a job, what more could you ask from a friend? If he doesnt want the job or to listen, then he has made his informed choice so you shouldn't bother anymore.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I am inclined to agree you've done all you can in this situation. It's obvious your friend wants to do something creative and what you're offering him is in his eyes "evil corporate work" (I won't go into how ridiculously off-the-ground this is in his particular situation). Now, I know very little about marketing, I only had a marketing module in my course (architecture) at some point. But from what I gathered from this module, marketing can be pretty creative, too. I realize you're not offering your friend a position of marketing director, but still, there is something creative to be found in whatever he gets to do (if he is artistic enough to think a little bit outside the box). Also, anything that a person can do to support themselves on (including film, even the odd indies) needs to be marketed in some way. So marketing is that tool that helps you get paid by doing what you like. It could also give him ideas as to how to make things happen for himself. Perhaps if you had put it like this, instead of just nagging about the fact that he needs the pay, you would have had more success in getting to him. Now that he's been growing "increasingly hostile", he'll probably stop listening to you before you've finished the word "marketing".

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting your friend isn't vainly unrealistic, but you obviously are concerned about him and he does need help. However, he won't take it if you don't find a way to validate his dreams and incorporate the job you're offering into them.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)

    Next time I will try to make the role more interesting.
    But why? If you've got a job to offer someone surely you will give it to a person who would be delighted at the prospect of just having a reason to leave the house each day? If a salary isn't enough to get him out of bed then I don't know what to suggest. Stop doing all the work for him - if he's going to turn down any job that doesn't have the title 'film director' then let him learn the hard way.

    I do think some people here are being a little ignorant when they say that certain degrees are useless and give you no prospects. Every degree is at least useful to some job, but like you have identified, in certain industries there are very few jobs going and it's very much about who you know. I'm not going to criticise this guy for getting a degree in Film Studies, or call him irresponsible or a fool. He will only be that when he is too blinkered to accept work in other fields as a back-up or stop-gap plan - and that's exactly what he is doing. That is why he is being a fool. He needs to realise that he will learn marketable (sorry - swear word) skills from any job. To be honest I am surprised he has existed this long on benefits - to receive them, don't you have to show proof that you are actively looking for a job?

    I did an arts subject and graduated recently. Is my job related to my degree? No. But that's fine with me. I've got years to get myself sorted and in some ways I think that the 'unrelated' jobs I have might steer me in new directions and teach me unexpected things. I don't have a sense of entitlement because I have a degree. Your friend needs a reality check.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Just be direct and honest.

    There's nothing wrong with that.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    Update:

    This friend did an unpaid internship in central London, working hour is 10am til 6pm. When he got home, it is 7pm. His role is just buying food for everyone. It is a famous production company that can get unlimited supply of free labour so it does not lead to any paid job.
    Tbh, I am surprised it is not on the 100 unpaid intern list to be investigated by the HMRC.

    I met him recently, suggested him to apply for a permanent job that pays quite well. He rejected, saying that the role is in the central, he would be exhausted when he got home. It is a 9 - 5 clerical job. He said he did not have time to do anything when he got home when he was doing his internship. I felt so disappointed at him when I heard this.

    When people are out of work for too long, perhaps they feel more 'lazy' and unmotivated to work. Any advice on how to motivate him?
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Leave him alone. It's none of your business to force help on someone who doesn't want it. You've made it clear you want to help, he knows that. Take a step back and wait for him to ask for help. There's nothing more you can do at this point.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Sounds like your pissed because he won't join you in your marketing [cough] telesales [/cough] job.

    Do they pay you a commission for each personal acquaintance you bring in or something?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Just leave him be. It is silly that he won't accept an interview in this economy - he should be thrilled that there are actually openings and he's got a shot, even if it's not quite where he'd like to be. But you can't force him to take the job, and you certainly shouldn't look down on him for having gone to school for Film Studies.

    Also, please do not judge people for getting a higher education in the subject in which they are interested. It would be frankly stupid of them to study something they didn't care about, and at least they wanted to learn more.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Forgot to mention, he spent like 10k on a master in film studies. His parents can't support him again if he wants to do a PhD in film studies.

    It seems that it is impossible for him to find anything close to what he wants to do. To make things worse, friends around him are equally unrealistic.
    This group of friends from school did degrees that are not leading to anything. From
    drama, classic, art, psychology, politics to film studies. I am the odd one who did a STEM subject. We used to be very good friends. Now I don't have time to go out with them considering I work 12 hr a day while they are mostly unemployed. The one who did politics ended up wt he is earning money. The one who did psychology struggles to find anything at all. The one who is doing art is working as a waitress.

    They all encourage his to keep his dream and never give up on it. They think the government has responsibility to support them so it is ok to keep doing unpaid work and claim benefits. I am slowly being pushed away from this group of friends because I work I am now seen as the evil capitalist sucking their blood money.


    Does anyone happen to lose their friends because they work? I feel like I am in a different stage of life.

    He got 3As in A-levels. He is a clever person. I really wish I could help.
    It sounds more like you're being pushed away because you think your priorities and desires in life are better than theirs. You sound like an ********, to be honest. Not everyone wants to get sucked into the kind of area you're in (I know I wouldn't).
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Millie228)
    If you wanted to help him, you should have stopped him the day he decided to apply to film studies. But it's not your job either way.
    :jester: this
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: May 7, 2013
Poll
If you won £30,000, which of these would you spend it on?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.