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President has the right to use drones in the USA on American citizens Watch

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    'Gasp' is probably the best response to this story. :eek:

    US Attorney General Eric Holder has just informed the US Senate Judiciary Committee that President Obama has the legal right to use drone strikes against US citizens within the United States!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-US-soil.html

    With this having been made clear, it can only be a matter of time before it is confirmed that the US regards this as a global authorisation - they nearly always project their laws abroad, as if US law prevails everywhere.

    It is not impossible to imagine US predator drones being used over the UK, indeed, one can't help wondering if there have already been test flights. It isn't plausible that we can depend on our own supine government to defend us from this threat.

    The use of drones is becoming increasingly amoral, sinister and depraved. In Afghanistan, they have remote-killed thousands of civilians, operated by desktop workers from Nevada, who commute into work from their suburban homes, do a day's killing and then drive back to their wives and children.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It is not impossible to imagine US predator drones being used over the UK, indeed, one can't help wondering if there have already been test flights. It isn't plausible that we can depend on our own supine government to defend us from this threat.
    This won't happen, it would be an act of war. Also we have the ability to take down drones unlike the countries they are used on.
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    UAVs cause far less collateral damage ( ie dead babies ) than conventional aircraft; they can hover for hours at the target allowing time for careful decision making. Of course there are tragic miscalculations but the upside is that Terry Taliban and his Al Qaeeder pals can be despatched without risking the lives of our brave lads.
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    (Original post by james22)
    This won't happen, it would be an act of war. Also we have the ability to take down drones unlike the countries they are used on.
    It wouldn't be an act of war, because it would be legal in the US, therefore the UK govt would (as always) succumb and permit any such actions.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    UAVs cause far less collateral damage ( ie dead babies ) than conventional aircraft; they can hover for hours at the target allowing time for careful decision making. Of course there are tragic miscalculations but the upside is that Terry Taliban and his Al Qaeeder pals can be despatched without risking the lives of our brave lads.
    It's just that there seem to be rather a lot of 'tragic miscalculations'.

    The real issue is the terrifying impact that the drone strikes are having on thousands of innocent civilians in the Pakistani areas where they are operating - it is true that Al Q are operating from there, but the horror these things are inflicting on ordinary people is terrible.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It wouldn't be an act of war, because it would be legal in the US, therefore the UK govt would (as always) succumb and permit any such actions.
    No they wouldn't, the public outcry would be far, far to great for parliment to ignore.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's just that there seem to be rather a lot of 'tragic miscalculations'.

    The real issue is the terrifying impact that the drone strikes are having on thousands of innocent civilians in the Pakistani areas where they are operating - it is true that Al Q are operating from there, but the horror these things are inflicting on ordinary people is terrible.
    Compared to the indiscriminate carnage wreaked by suicide bombers in Pakistani towns the UAV missions are humane. If you google " pakistan suicide bomb" you will find plenty to read. The horror these things are inflicting on ordinary people is terrible.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It wouldn't be an act of war, because it would be legal in the US, therefore the UK govt would (as always) succumb and permit any such actions.
    No they wouldn't, stop being silly. You're going way way way OTT here.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    No they wouldn't, stop being silly. You're going way way way OTT here.
    Just seeking to take probe the logical extent of these developments, following Eric Holder's admission that the Prezzie can order drone hits within the United States. Given that he can do that legally, there would be no barriers to them doing it abroad in any territory from the US perspective.

    Of course I'm not expecting drone strikes in the UK any time soon, but it's the sinister precedent that's interesting about this. It was inevitable that the US would continue to escalate the scope of their robowars.

    The US is also planning a new generation of robotic soldiers and completely autonomous drones. The latter will roam the skies uncontrolled, they will contain smart systems that will decide who is the enemy and eliminate them.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Just seeking to take probe the logical extent of these developments, following Eric Holder's admission that the Prezzie can order drone hits within the United States. Given that he can do that legally, there would be no barriers to them doing it abroad in any territory from the US perspective.
    Yes, there would be one big giant major barrier, that being that US law has no jurisdiction in the UK, and that the British government, while granted are a bunch of spineless prissy little *****es, are not so to such an extent as to allow a frickin' drone strike in the UK by a foreign country.

    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Of course I'm not expecting drone strikes in the UK any time soon, but it's the sinister precedent that's interesting about this. It was inevitable that the US would continue to escalate the scope of their robowars.
    What precedent? What happens in the US has never been of any legal relevance to the UK.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)

    Of course I'm not expecting drone strikes in the UK any time soon, but it's the sinister precedent that's interesting about this. It was inevitable that the US would continue to escalate the scope of their robowars.

    The US is also planning a new generation of robotic soldiers and completely autonomous drones. The latter will roam the skies uncontrolled, they will contain smart systems that will decide who is the enemy and eliminate them.
    How 'terminatoresque' however I doubt they will due to the amount of accidents that have occurred due to malfunction of automated weaponry.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)

    What precedent? What happens in the US has never been of any legal relevance to the UK.
    There have been numerous court rulings and governmental statements in the US to the general effect that their laws apply everywhere. It is known as 'US extraterritoriality'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrate...#United_States
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    There have been numerous court rulings and governmental statements in the US to the general effect that their laws apply everywhere. It is known as 'US extraterritoriality'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrate...#United_States
    From my understanding, it's not that Eric Holder said that the President had the RIGHT to use drones, simply that he wouldn't commit to saying that he wouldn't say that he COULDN'T use drones in the US.

    Either way, I couldn't care less whether or not he chooses to use them within the US or not - its the actions OUTSIDE the US, and the wanton ignorance of international law that concerns me far more.
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    You keep making threads out of newspaper articles. Its quite annoying.
    Discuss it with the debate team at oxford or your friends over tea
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    operated by desktop workers from Nevada and (now) Britain.
    They are all, currently, operated out of Nevada. None - not even the ones we own and operate - are yet controlled from Britain.
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    Behind every robot is a human. Why not use robots instead of risking the lives of the people behind them?


    (Original post by Botox)
    You keep making threads out of newspaper articles. Its quite annoying.
    Discuss it with the debate team at oxford or your friends over tea
    What else is the International Current Affairs sub forum meant to have? :holmes:
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    Think i read somewhere they want to have like 50,000 by like 2025 or something lol :eyeball:
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    There have been numerous court rulings and governmental statements in the US to the general effect that their laws apply everywhere. It is known as 'US extraterritoriality'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrate...#United_States
    Except it's not everywhere, it's in those specific locations under those specific circumstances. Furthermore, there's a difference between attempting to legislate something and trying to enforce it. There will never ever be a time in which US drones are operating against the UK, ever.
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    Just more and more perverse things happening to civil liberties that are becoming, insidiously, routine. More things which America will most probably hand on to us too.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    '


    It is not impossible to imagine US predator drones being used over the UK, indeed, one can't help wondering if there have already been test flights. It isn't plausible that we can depend on our own supine government to defend us from this threat.

    The use of drones is becoming increasingly amoral, sinister and depraved. In Afghanistan, they have remote-killed thousands of civilians, operated by desktop workers from Nevada and (now) Britain.
    Yes, agreed with all. So much stuff now is just going under the radar. And yes, our government is totally spineless and unconcerned about us.
 
 
 
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