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Berlusconi sentenced to a year in prison! Watch

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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    You vote for the Socialists, dislike Berlusconi and blame the old for voting him while touting that many were ashamed to admit they voted for him despite a fair few on the news (at least on Sky TG24 which I believe is pretty anti-Berlusconi) people openly stated they voted for him and that they did not mind his antics?

    Yeah your post does not reek of bias :rolleyes:
    Tbf to her, all the articles I've read and came across do indicate that people didn't openly admit to voting for Silvio but, I don't see the relevance of it or what they expected? Them to hold a victory parade in an eleection where there was no winner??
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It's really nice that you love him, are you a regular at any of his Bunga-Bungas?
    NO.
    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    No, he was saying that Berlusconi was doing hugely well to get a collapsed vote from 46% down to 29% and that the Five Star protests were nothing to do with Silvio.
    In case you hadn't realised it is a party polling not a polling on him and when he was out of power, the parties polling went down yet when he came back it went back up, sure it didn't hit the usual as the youth voted for Grillo but overall he got the party back up to a decent percentage. It was not a vote against him.

    I do think you have a personal dislike of the guy and are just hating for the sake of hating.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    NO.

    In case you hadn't realised it is a party polling not a polling on him and when he was out of power, the parties polling went down yet when he came back it went back up, sure it didn't hit the usual as the youth voted for Grillo but overall he got the party back up to a decent percentage. It was not a vote against him.

    I do think you have a personal dislike of the guy and are just hating for the sake of hating.
    It's not some silly nonsensical 'hate', it's realistic dislike of a showman, confidence trickster and self-serving oligarch and criminal, accidentally put in charge of a major EU country (tbf one that has had long-running and severe economic stagnation and other woes before he came on the scene) because voters bought into his lies about being able to turn it all around. Although again, to be fair to him, perhaps nobody could really turn Italy around. So it isn't some silly campaign, I was praising the court for calling him what he so visibly is - a crook in need of a prison sentence.

    The fact that our Tone is so closely associated with him also speaks volumes.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    No, he was saying that Berlusconi was doing hugely well to get a collapsed vote from 46% down to 29% and that the Five Star protests were nothing to do with Silvio.
    But that's not the case here. You can't, in retrospect, look at the result of this election from election to election as you normally would given all the abnormality that has happend in due time- with Silvio been forced to resign from his position as prime minister. That's surely as rock bottom as you get; a massive seal of incompetent was stamped all over his body.

    To go from that and pull in 29% within 18 months, is a darn right brilliant showing . No one else in a modern democracy would be able to pull that off.
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    (Original post by 419)
    But that's not the case here. You can't, in retrospect, look at the result of this election from election to election as you normally would given all the abnormality that has happend in due time- with Silvio been forced to resign from his position as prime minister. That's surely as rock bottom as you get; a massive seal of incompetent was stamped all over his body.

    To go from that and pull in 29% within 18 months, is a darn right brilliant showing . No one else in a modern democracy would be able to pull that off.
    Well, maybe. Things in Italy are so chaotic generally, that there's a sense in which anything goes. Also the Monti (who had an unenviable task) 'technocrat' (silly word - he proved to be anything but) government being so unpopular just opens the door to any possibility.

    It isn't wide of the mark to compare this result with the previous general election, after all, Berlusconi or not Berlusconi was really the issue of both.
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    You vote for the Socialists, dislike Berlusconi and blame the old for voting him while touting that many were ashamed to admit they voted for him despite a fair few on the news (at least on Sky TG24 which I believe is pretty anti-Berlusconi) people openly stated they voted for him and that they did not mind his antics?Yeah your post does not reek of bias :rolleyes:
    Not really, at the time of instant polls, it seemed that left parties + Grillo would have won, in fact Berlusconi's electors did not admit they had voted for him until the very end (then it also depends on where they are from, in the south they are generally fond of Berlusconi), and the fact that they were ashamed to say they would have voted for him was underlined by Cicchitto, a member of Berlusconi's party (therefore by themselves), not something that I made up. Of course after this unexpected result they had no reason to hide what they did, they were proud, the cowards (and this ALWAYS happens in Italy since the time of the Unity, just think of Mussolini, masses were openly supporting him, but when he was caught by the partisans and hanged then everyone turned partisan and rushed to Piazzale Loreto to insult his corpse).The problem with these elections was that Grillo and Berlusconi were both fatally underestimated. And btw,I think SKY TG24 is quite objective, not really anti-Berlusconi.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Do you think that the current allegations against particular members of Five Star for things like fascism will start to diminish the appeal of his movement?
    Not really, the crime defined by our Constitution as "fascist apology" is not punished at all. It happens very often that politicians say para-fascistic things but unfortunately their appeal does not diminish, on the contrary they get more attention and the sympathies of neofascist movements. When I'll hear of somebody charged for fascist apology or to lose appeal for fascist declarations, then it'd mean that Italy has finally become a civil country.
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    (Original post by SerenaRoe)
    Not really, the crime defined by our Constitution as "fascist apology" is not punished at all. It happens very often that politicians say para-fascistic things but unfortunately their appeal does not diminish, on the contrary they get more attention and the sympathies of neofascist movements. When I'll hear of somebody charged for fascist apology or to lose appeal for fascist declarations, then it'd mean that Italy has finally become a civil country.
    I think people here are really surprised how painfully difficult it seems for anyone powerful in Italy to be charged and actually sentenced and punished for crimes, but maybe this is slowly changing - then again, maybe it isn't, one thinks of Andreotti for example - do you feel that the way Berlusconi has behaved and been treated is somewhat similar to the old Mafia-linked politician cases?

    I am always astonished that fascism still has any allure in Italy, but then look at the UK, where far-right causes keep flaring up. We even fought a great big war against it not so long ago.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think people here are really surprised how painfully difficult it seems for anyone powerful in Italy to be charged and actually sentenced and punished for crimes, but maybe this is slowly changing - then again, maybe it isn't, one thinks of Andreotti for example - do you feel that the way Berlusconi has behaved and been treated is somewhat similar to the old Mafia-linked politician cases?

    I am always astonished that fascism still has any allure in Italy, but then look at the UK, where far-right causes keep flaring up. We even fought a great big war against it not so long ago.
    Berlusconi's case is one of the mafia-linked politician cases. Well, Andreotti at least had the decency to show up at trials (he was so sured he wouldn't be senteced that it was no big deal to him). The main reason of all of this, in my opinion, is linked to the "legittimo impedimento" ("legal impediment", I really don't know how to translate it, it's a sort of immunity).

    However, remember that despite everything you're lucky not to live in Italy but to live in the UK. No country is perfect, but mine really is a mess.
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    (Original post by SerenaRoe)
    Berlusconi's case is one of the mafia-linked politician cases. Well, Andreotti at least had the decency to show up at trials (he was so sured he wouldn't be senteced that it was no big deal to him). The main reason of all of this, in my opinion, is linked to the "legittimo impedimento" ("legal impediment", I really don't know how to translate it, it's a sort of immunity).

    However, remember that despite everything you're lucky not to live in Italy but to live in the UK. No country is perfect, but mine really is a mess.
    Yes, sorry, I wasn't quite clear - I was asking if the current mafia-linked political trials are very similar to the previous generation ones?

    It does sound as if they have a lot in common. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Yes, sorry, I wasn't quite clear - I was asking if the current mafia-linked political trials are very similar to the previous generation ones?

    It does sound as if they have a lot in common. :rolleyes:
    Yes, they are. But not only they're similar to the mafia-linked trials, they are also similar to the trials season of "Mani pulite-Tangentopoli", when parties were charged for getting illegal financing from important people in the world of politics and finance, together with bribery and corruption. The main figures involved were Andreotti and Craxi (Berlusconi's mentor) and one of the main jurors was Ilda Boccassini, who is currently leading the trial against Berlusconi for the scandal "Rubygate".

    History is repeating itself.
 
 
 
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