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Birmingham bus stabbing death: Man, 22, arrested on suspicion of murder of 16 ... Watch

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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    He killed someone in an unprovoked attack. I don't think the facts could be clearer. It's obvious that if he chooses to plead insanity that he will be let of the hook slightly in some way, shape or form.
    Do you have any understanding of psychosis and diminished responsibility at all? In lay terms, is someone responsible for their actions if they are literally raving mad and out of their mind through no fault of their own? To repeat myself, if you think this could not happen to you or a member of your family, or any otherwise normal, rational and peaceful person you are wrong.

    To give an example of the kind of distorted thinking/delusion/hallucination that may occur in psychosis (quite literally based on psychotic patients I have encountered):

    - Belief that oneself is being persecuted by others / a mysterious group such as aliens/secret services/the government/demons
    - Actually having intrusive visual and auditory hallucinations which to the person with psychosis confirms their delusional ideas
    - Unable to concentrate/think clearly/understand ones surroundings or the irrationality of their position
    - In some cases, rapid improvement and return to normality when given anti-psychotic medications, with often poor "dream-like" memories of the psychotic episode.

    Again, if psychotic the defendant will likely not "choose to plead" anything, the defence will be put forward for them. Psychotic defendants often disagree with defence by insanity and are more likely to put forward a defence such as "they were following me and taling about me i just knew she was going to kill the children and i had to do something...", understand that psychosis is to be "raving mad" in lay terms and can affect an otherwise normal individual.
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    (Original post by venenecinema)
    Whilst I'm certainly not a liberal in that sense and I'd be the last person to defend multiculturalism, where in the article does it say he's a foreigner? I think I'm missing something.
    He'll have been of foreign descent. Knife crime in this country is almost always due to blacks. And that's not racist, it's the truth.
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    (Original post by Pigling)
    Do you have any understanding of psychosis and diminished responsibility at all? In lay terms, is someone responsible for their actions if they are literally raving mad and out of their mind through no fault of their own? To repeat myself, if you think this could not happen to you or a member of your family, or any otherwise normal, rational and peaceful person you are wrong.

    To give an example of the kind of distorted thinking/delusion/hallucination that may occur in psychosis (quite literally based on psychotic patients I have encountered):

    - Belief that oneself is being persecuted by others / a mysterious group such as aliens/secret services/the government/demons
    - Actually having intrusive visual and auditory hallucinations which to the person with psychosis confirms their delusional ideas
    - Unable to concentrate/think clearly/understand ones surroundings or the irrationality of their position
    - In some cases, rapid improvement and return to normality when given anti-psychotic medications, with often poor "dream-like" memories of the psychotic episode.

    Again, if psychotic the defendant will likely not "choose to plead" anything, the defence will be put forward for them. Psychotic defendants often disagree with defence by insanity and are more likely to put forward a defence such as "they were following me and taling about me i just knew she was going to kill the children and i had to do something...", understand that psychosis is to be "raving mad" in lay terms and can affect an otherwise normal individual.
    Your misunderstanding me. I couldn't give a crap. All I know is that if he pleads insanity or diminished responsibility he will be given an easy punishment. He killed someone, he should pay.
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    (Original post by rolos12345)
    I think maybe that's a bit extreme but certainly white people need to be educated on the dangers of travelling in multicultural areas.


    edit:

    Not sure why I am getting negs the vast majority of interracial crime is black against white. White people are simply not safe in these areas.
    He meant segregated as in "school children" from "public". Not racial...I think.
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    (Original post by Pigling)
    Do you have any understanding of psychosis and diminished responsibility at all? In lay terms, is someone responsible for their actions if they are literally raving mad and out of their mind through no fault of their own? To repeat myself, if you think this could not happen to you or a member of your family, or any otherwise normal, rational and peaceful person you are wrong.

    To give an example of the kind of distorted thinking/delusion/hallucination that may occur in psychosis (quite literally based on psychotic patients I have encountered):

    - Belief that oneself is being persecuted by others / a mysterious group such as aliens/secret services/the government/demons
    - Actually having intrusive visual and auditory hallucinations which to the person with psychosis confirms their delusional ideas
    - Unable to concentrate/think clearly/understand ones surroundings or the irrationality of their position
    - In some cases, rapid improvement and return to normality when given anti-psychotic medications, with often poor "dream-like" memories of the psychotic episode.

    Again, if psychotic the defendant will likely not "choose to plead" anything, the defence will be put forward for them. Psychotic defendants often disagree with defence by insanity and are more likely to put forward a defence such as "they were following me and taling about me i just knew she was going to kill the children and i had to do something...", understand that psychosis is to be "raving mad" in lay terms and can affect an otherwise normal individual.
    Please don't waste your time on the guy.
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    (Original post by original_username)
    Thought so. Very insightful posts.

    I did support work with people mental illnesses for a temp job years ago. Made me few mental illness and it's sufferers in a very different light.
    In what way?
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    Wow. Imagine what would happen if a White Guy stabbed a Black girl to death..

    Stories like these rarely ever get any attention though.
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    (Original post by uktotalgamer)
    Your misunderstanding me. I couldn't give a crap. All I know is that if he pleads insanity or diminished responsibility he will be given an easy punishment. He killed someone, he should pay.
    The insanity defence is not an "easy" route, it is simply a more appropriate one for somebody suffering psychotic/delusional illness.

    Saying "I couldn't give a crap" "He killed someone, he should pay" - what kind of argument is that? It's akin to say "I feel strongly about this but can provide no reasonable argument for my position".

    The fact is, I simply don't care how you feel about it, and as it happens neither does the legal system - as the principle of guilt is responsibility.
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    (Original post by Pigling)
    The insanity defence is not an "easy" route, it is simply a more appropriate one for somebody suffering psychotic/delusional illness.

    Saying "I couldn't give a crap" "He killed someone, he should pay" - what kind of argument is that? It's akin to say "I feel strongly about this but can provide no reasonable argument for my position".

    The fact is, I simply don't care how you feel about it, and as it happens neither does the legal system - as the principle of guilt is responsibility.
    And he is responsible. He killed someone. We're far too soft in this country.
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    (Original post by venenecinema)
    Please don't waste your time on the guy.
    Thanks, haha. uktotalgamer is clearly not interested in reasoned discussion and prefers to repeat themselves without addressing anything I've said. I ought to learn really.
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    (Original post by Pigling)
    Thanks, haha. uktotalgamer is clearly not interested in reasoned discussion and prefers to repeat themselves without addressing anything I've said. I ought to learn really.
    No. I just live in real life, and not the liberalists and socialists fairyland.
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    (Original post by Devina-S)
    In what way?
    In what way what?
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    Anyone trying to defend this specimen needs their head looking at. A wonderful example of the chronic effects of multiculturalism we see every day.

    Lock him up for life in a bare cell. Better still, hang the *******.
    Quite illogical and rather ignorant of you to say such issues are 'effects of multiculturalism' **** like this also happened before this country was even multicultural (case in point, Steven Lawrence '95.) in addition, media sensationalist reports pay more attention to cases where the culprit is of another culture/race/whathaveyou, but when it's vice versa, **** is burried under the sand.
    And thus ignorant gits like yourself run to place blame on multiculturalism...eh NO, it's a ****ing universal problem mate.

    Don't get me wrong im not defending this guy, if anything, what he did was wrong. But considering his insane, this could have been anyone...for both parties.

    condolences to the family of the girl.

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    (Original post by anonymou)
    Quite illogical and rather ignorant of you to say such issues are 'effects of multiculturalism' **** like this also happened before this country was even multicultural (case in point, Steven Lawrence '95.) in addition, media sensationalist reports pay more attention to cases where the culprit is of another culture/race/whathaveyou, but when it's vice versa, **** is burried under the sand.
    And thus ignorant gits like yourself run to place blame on multiculturalism...eh NO, it's a ****ing universal problem mate.

    Don't get me wrong im not defending this guy, if anything what he did was wrong. But considering his insane, this could have been anyone...for both parties.

    condolences to the family of the girl.

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    Often crime is caused by foreigners, you can't deny it. And knife crime is almost always caused by blacks. Multiculturalism doesn't work, and never will work.

    And, I'm sorry but, 'if anything what he did was wrong'. **** me, that sounds you're unconvinced that murder is wrong. And the liberals are always quick to point the finger of blame at mental illnesses. Some people just enjoy killing.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    Often crime is caused by foreigners, you can't deny it. And knife crime is almost always caused by blacks. Multiculturalism doesn't work, and never will work.

    And, I'm sorry but, 'if anything what he did was wrong'. **** me, that sounds you're unconvinced that murder is wrong. And the liberals are always quick to point the finger of blame at mental illnesses. Some people just enjoy killing.
    Which is clearly a mental illness. Those kind of people are hardly going to be put off by tougher punishments, so better understanding of mental illness is the only the way forward.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    Which is clearly a mental illness. Those kind of people are hardly going to be put off by tougher punishments, so better understanding of mental illness is the only the way forward.
    Anyone who kills should be put in a bare cell for life, can't get much tougher than that. If they're not put off, so be it, but at least they can't reoffend and the streets can be a safer place.
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    (Original post by ed-)
    Except he's schizophrenic so will use the defence of insanity... If successful (which it clearly will be) he'll be found 'not guilty by reasons of insanity'.
    So when he's finally fit to face trial he'll probably only get a court order to serve time in a mental institute...

    edit; just remembered schizophrenia sometimes isn't covered by this defence... But at the very least he'll use diminished responsibility which will reduce his conviction to 'voluntary manslaughter'.
    No it won't. If he's found guilty and no fit to stand trial, he will be sectioned under S.37/41 of the Mental Health Act. This is transfer to hospital from prison/court under Ministry of Justice restrictions. This means that its not the hospital that would decide when he could have leave or be released, but the MoJ. If you think that psychiatric hospital is cushier than prison, then think again. In prison, you have a set length of detention. In psychiatric hospital you don't. You can be detained indefinitely under the MHA until doctors and the MoJ agree you can be released. You can be injected with drugs against your will under the MHA, drugs which can cause brain damage. Its not a soft option, not by a long shot.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    Often crime is caused by foreigners, you can't deny it. And knife crime is almost always caused by blacks. Multiculturalism doesn't work, and never will work.

    And, I'm sorry but, 'if anything what he did was wrong'. **** me, that sounds you're unconvinced that murder is wrong. And the liberals are always quick to point the finger of blame at mental illnesses. Some people just enjoy killing.
    Again, because media sensationalism makes it out to be. It's rather concerning that you ignore the fact that there are unreported crimes and chances are they're just about as much black crimes. You'll never admit it, mainly because you don't see it and that's fine, your not to blame for that. The media will forever provoke moral panicks about other cultures and thus.
    Ooo...a rather conservative one here..so correct me if im wrong, your implying that there will always be conflict between cultures? With people with minds like yours in this world,well ofcourse it won't... -__- Reality is multiculturalism does work,and for as long as we both shall live, it sure as hell will work Better get used to it cupcake...

    Oh im sure as hell that murder is wrong, but if this man has been sectioned, does that not imply there genuinely is something wrong, no one in the right mind 'kills for fun', that's a lifelong burden hanging over your conscience mate.

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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    Anyone who kills should be put in a bare cell for life, can't get much tougher than that. If they're not put off, so be it, but at least they can't reoffend and the streets can be a safer place.
    I don't think anyone is against keeping these kind of people off the streets to keep the public safe. The reason us 'liberals' point the finger at mental illness is because we believe these things can be prevented through better understanding and treatment.
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    (Original post by Harry Callahan)
    He'll have been of foreign descent. Knife crime in this country is almost always due to blacks. And that's not racist, it's the truth.
    He was a British National actually.
    What link is there between race and psychosis?
 
 
 
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