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"Everyone must remove java" Watch

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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Yes, worrying about the safety of your computer is pointless. I mean it's not like anyone does anything sensitive on their computers. You know like banking, internet shopping paypal.

    No-one keeps anything confidential on their computer either.

    And no-one would really care if their computer stopped working.

    Thank you for your really REALLY helpful input in this thread.
    Congratulations on getting all worked up over nothing.

    As long as you are taking steps to protect yourself, a decent AV and a decent Malware scanner, then all is well.

    Just because there is a flaw in Java, doesn't mean you should remove every little piece of it right away. It's everywhere, on your phone, possibly in your car (and cup). There are a ton of flaws in the OS just waiting to be exploited. the reality is, if someone good enough wants access to your information on your PC, they will get it.

    The sooner you realise this, the sooner you'll stop worrying so much.
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    (Original post by A5ko)
    Congratulations on getting all worked up over nothing.

    As long as you are taking steps to protect yourself, a decent AV and a decent Malware scanner, then all is well.

    Just because there is a flaw in Java, doesn't mean you should remove every little piece of it right away. It's everywhere, on your phone, possibly in your car (and cup). There are a ton of flaws in the OS just waiting to be exploited. the reality is, if someone good enough wants access to your information on your PC, they will get it.

    The sooner you realise this, the sooner you'll stop worrying so much.
    Yeah, good luck with that.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Yeah, good luck with that.
    What's so difficult about getting an AV and Malware software?

    Nothing is 100%, but to date, I have yet to have any virus on my PC or encountered any issues that I deem problematic.
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    (Original post by A5ko)
    What's so difficult about getting an AV and Malware software?

    Nothing is 100% but to date, I have yet to have any virus on my PC or encountered any issues that I deem problematic.
    There's nothing difficult about Anti-virus. It's ubiquitous and often free. How effective it is, however...

    It's misleading and frankly arrogant to think that AV provides absolute peace of mind, however. In my experience, even fully updated commercial AV products will not offer protection against new threats exploiting vulnerabilities in common software like Java, by which time it's too late - especially if you're visiting a compromised website.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    There's nothing difficult about Anti-virus. It's ubiquitous and often free. How effective it is, however...

    It's misleading and frankly arrogant to think that AV provides absolute peace of mind, however.
    I agree, which is why I said nothing is 100%. It is also the reason people whould stop worrying so much. If someone wants your information and has the means to get it, what can you realistically do?

    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    In my experience, even fully updated commercial AV products will not offer protection against new threats exploiting vulnerabilities in common software like Java, by which time it's too late - especially if you're visiting a compromised website.
    There are always new exploits being found, primarily in the operating system, as this is one common bit of software that most people will have. You have no way of knowing if these exploits exist until someone takes advantage or, as you said, visits a compromised site. A Java issue may well have been identified, but then along comes a patch to plug the hole, only for another to open when someone finds a way.

    If you removed every piece of software that has ever been exploited, we'd all be using empty husks.
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    Question: does this Java problem affect Mac?

    Is it generally sufficient to defend oneself against threats from this direction by disabling Java in the browser, eg, Chrome plugins?
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    In a similar way:

    There's a remote code exploit and privilege escalation hole in all versions of windows (being patched in the next update cycle) (source: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03...day_pre_alert/)

    Quick everyone remove Windows from your computer (and MacOS and Linux as they probably have holes as well)
    Realistically there are always going to be bugs in software, we try to do what we can to protect ourselves (patching, AV, firewalls, safe browsing etc) but occasionally something will get through. Viruses get mutated very quickly and the AV is generally having to catch up with the latest idea the virus writer has had.
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    (Original post by natninja)
    C# (Java) was made for OpenGL and therefore is better with it than C++ which OpenGL was written for.
    There's so much wrong with this sentence...
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    (Original post by A5ko)
    Congratulations on getting all worked up over nothing.

    As long as you are taking steps to protect yourself, a decent AV and a decent Malware scanner, then all is well.

    Just because there is a flaw in Java, doesn't mean you should remove every little piece of it right away. It's everywhere, on your phone, possibly in your car (and cup). There are a ton of flaws in the OS just waiting to be exploited. the reality is, if someone good enough wants access to your information on your PC, they will get it.

    The sooner you realise this, the sooner you'll stop worrying so much.
    Nice counter argument. Oh wait, you forgot to post one.
    I will reply to the post though:
    The flaw in java is firstly, very well known about. Secondly, a massive gaping one. And thirdly, very easy to stop from being exploited.

    So why would people keep up java unless they literally want to be hacked?
    Your advice, no I won't even call it that, your attempt to come across as clever has backfired, majorly. Your prescriptions to just let whatever will be render any attempt to have an opinion on the best way to protect any piece of technology useless.

    Do not reply unless you have something useful to add. Do not pass go. Go not collect £200 pounds.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Nice counter argument. Oh
    So why would people keep up java unless they literally want to be hacked?
    So every time there is a flaw in software you are 100% guaranteed to be hacked? With that kind of attitude, no wonder you reacted the way you did.

    If someone wants your information, they get it whether you like it or not. Quite why you think they would go after your little tiny PC for the sake of your information, when it's stored quite neatly elsewhere. You always run a risk of becoming a proxy for some nefarious deed, but until there is a 100% protection, you have no choice.

    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Your advice, no I won't even call it that, your attempt to come across as clever has backfired.
    I wasn't being clever, I was merely pointing out that people do not need to get so worried all of the time. There are always gaping holes, it will never be 100% secure. Disabling Java for the sake of one hole that will no doubt be patched shortly is just not worth it.

    If you panicked over every single flaw, you would just disconnect your PC from any kind of network and be done with it.

    That or visiting dodgy phishing sites has got people mardy.
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    (Original post by A5ko)
    So every time there is a flaw in software you are 100% guaranteed to be hacked? With that kind of attitude, no wonder you reacted the way you did.

    If someone wants your information, they get it whether you like it or not. Quite why you think they would go after your little tiny PC for the sake of your information, when it's stored quite neatly elsewhere. You always run a risk of becoming a proxy for some nefarious deed, but until there is a 100% protection, you have no choice.



    I wasn't being clever, I was merely pointing out that people do not need to get so worried all of the time. There are always gaping holes, it will never be 100% secure. Disabling Java for the sake of one hole that will no doubt be patched shortly is just not worth it.

    If you panicked over every single flaw, you would just disconnect your PC from any kind of network and be done with it.

    That or visiting dodgy phishing sites has got people mardy.
    Java are renowned for not patching things up quickly.
    And you ignored the vast majority of my post, so you're still wrong, and for all the reasons in that post.
    Go back and have a read.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Java are renowned for not patching things up quickly.
    And you ignored the vast majority of my post, so you're still wrong, and for all the reasons in that post.
    Go back and have a read.
    How can my opinion be 'wrong'?

    Check, don't check, patch don't patch. Do what you like. Ultimately it is your PC and your details at 'risk'.

    I won't be losing any sleep, maybe you will?
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    (Original post by A5ko)
    How can my opinion be 'wrong'?

    Check, don't check, patch don't patch. Do what you like. Ultimately it is your PC and your details at 'risk'.

    I won't be losing any sleep, maybe you will?
    :facepalm2:.
    Please do us all a favour and learn how to read posts properly. And reply properly.
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    (Original post by A5ko)
    I agree, which is why I said nothing is 100%. It is also the reason people whould stop worrying so much. If someone wants your information and has the means to get it, what can you realistically do?



    There are always new exploits being found, primarily in the operating system, as this is one common bit of software that most people will have. You have no way of knowing if these exploits exist until someone takes advantage or, as you said, visits a compromised site. A Java issue may well have been identified, but then along comes a patch to plug the hole, only for another to open when someone finds a way.

    If you removed every piece of software that has ever been exploited, we'd all be using empty husks.
    What exactly is your level of experience in information security? Your posts are all very enthusiastic but there's not a lot of actual fact in them.
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    I don't think I even have it... How would I know? Can you get it on Macs?

    Either way I'm not making an effort to get rid of it. Macs rarely get viruses and just to be sure I run Sophos anyway.
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    (Original post by Planto)
    What exactly is your level of experience in information security? Your posts are all very enthusiastic but there's not a lot of actual fact in them.
    That I cannot possibly say. I'm not really sure what you mean in regards to 'fact'.

    Saying that you will get a virus if you don't patch an exploit is not fact.

    (Original post by there's too much love)
    :facepalm2:.
    Please do us all a favour and learn how to read posts properly. And reply properly.
    Your post didn't have anything else worth mentioning. The fact that Java have security issues is the same for most popular software. If you prod something enough, you'll create a hole.
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    (Original post by ed-)
    I don't think I even have it... How would I know? Can you get it on Macs?

    Either way I'm not making an effort to get rid of it. Macs rarely get viruses and just to be sure I run Sophos anyway.
    They are not targeted due to their overall lower usage, but they are certainly not invincible.
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    (Original post by A5ko)
    That I cannot possibly say. I'm not really sure what you mean in regards to 'fact'.

    Saying that you will get a virus if you don't patch an exploit is not fact.
    Why are you hell-bent on skirting around questions and making straw man arguments?

    You have continually made pseudo-informed statements, mostly to the effect that "software is never 100% secure so there's no point worrying about it," which is a ridiculous conclusion from a self-evident premise (among other completely unfounded statements such as "all software has gaping holes"); however, you have yet to demonstrate any actual expertise on the subject matter at hand.
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    (Original post by A5ko)
    That I cannot possibly say. I'm not really sure what you mean in regards to 'fact'.

    Saying that you will get a virus if you don't patch an exploit is not fact.



    Your post didn't have anything else worth mentioning. The fact that Java have security issues is the same for most popular software. If you prod something enough, you'll create a hole.
    The fact that it seems to be quite an easy thing to exploit with exploits growing for it is the worrying bit. Your attitude of "nothing is secure so security doesn't really matter" is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Planto)
    You have continually made pseudo-informed statements, mostly to the effect that "software is never 100% secure so there's no point worrying about it," which is a ridiculous conclusion...
    I didn't say there is any point, I said be content with the basic recommendations of an AV and Malware solution, avoid getting hung up on every little facet.

    (Original post by Planto)
    "all software has gaping holes"; however, you have yet to demonstrate any actual expertise on the subject matter at hand.
    There are flaws in software, it's just a matter of time before they are exploited. Java will get patched (eventually) and the problem will be resolved for a time. Windows is always being patched but people don't go crazy and uninstall their OS.

    You don't need 'actual expertise' to understand any of this. It's all dependant on how you feel about a situation and what you choose to do about it. I choose not to get all bent out of shape and panic.

    I'm getting lynched for it apparently.

    (Original post by there's too much love)
    The fact that it seems to be quite an easy thing to exploit with exploits growing for it is the worrying bit. Your attitude of "nothing is secure so security doesn't really matter" is ridiculous.
    I may not have been particularly clear, as you have said the same thing the poster above mentioned. I do not mean to completely disregard security, my point is not to get so hung up on it that you become so concerned that every bit of software you use becomes a threat.

    I agree it is on the rise, but it's because people are becoming savvy with technology and often 'outsmarting' those in place to stop bad happening.

    The people wanting to remove Java, would you also do the same for your phone/car?
 
 
 
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