Join TSR now for chat about life, relationships, fashion and more…Sign up now

Will clean and jerk give me size? Watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Will it give me size along with curls and bench press as long as I keep increasing weight?

    Somone guy on bb.com said doing clean and jerk 3x a week wont be enough.

    How many sets and reps should I do for this exercise and what rest time should I use?

    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    It is highly unlikely that it will do so. The majority of competitive weightlifters in this country don't look big. There are lots of people who are Taner Sagir types as well. Look like recreational cyclists at best. Sagir held a world record in the snatch at the 77s
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Blind Monk)
    It is highly unlikely that it will do so. The majority of competitive weightlifters in this country don't look big. There are lots of people who are Taner Sagir types as well. Look like recreational cyclists at best. Sagir held a world record in the snatch at the 77s
    That dude in the OP is pretty jacked.

    Most UK O lifters aren't jacked because they don't train frequently enough or with enough volume to get jacked off of sets of 1-3. Funnily enough, this is also why we suck so bad at O lifting as a nation.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    If you have the training frequency there then yes, don't fall for the bodypart routines as doing it once a week will slow progress, have full body routines and about 3x a week, do 5x5 strength training as you need to powerlift to gain muscle naturally you cant stay weak and get big unless you have lots and lots of drugs which cost a lot of money.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    Probably not as much as other stuff. You would need to do extra exercises. Will probably help with traps and back but nothing on the front of upper body (if you're doing it right you won't be using your arms much at all). It will help build quads and glutes though.
    Why do it to build size, though? Do it because it's an amazing exercise. Try and do it properly, though.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by epicnerd)
    If you have the training frequency there then yes, don't fall for the bodypart routines as doing it once a week will slow progress, have full body routines and about 3x a week, do 5x5 strength training as you need to powerlift to gain muscle naturally you cant stay weak and get big unless you have lots and lots of drugs which cost a lot of money.

    So misinformed.

    If you want to gain size you have to lift heavy things. Drugs don't alter the fundamentals of human physiology. Show me a weak IFBB pro bodybuilder and I will eat my hat (if I were wearing one).
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Old School)
    So misinformed.

    If you want to gain size you have to lift heavy things. Drugs don't alter the fundamentals of human physiology. Show me a weak IFBB pro bodybuilder and I will eat my hat (if I were wearing one).
    Didn't mean to say that they IFBB pros are weak, the only way you can get big without lifting heavy and power training is using some drugs, of course these results are still not very good compared to lifting heavy and to gain mass efficiently and at the best pace you must lift heavy.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Old School)
    That dude in the OP is pretty jacked.

    Most UK O lifters aren't jacked because they don't train frequently enough or with enough volume to get jacked off of sets of 1-3. Funnily enough, this is also why we suck so bad at O lifting as a nation.
    The OP would be a recreational lifter if he did the CJ 3x a week. The pros are lifting 7-14x (if not more) a week. Possibly more. I believe the Team GB guys at Leeds under our national coach Femas will be doing up to 11x/week. I don't think any of them look particularly jacked.

    Lu Xiaojun is also a bit of an anomaly in weightlifting. The majority of the weightlifting elite do not look like Lu Xiaojun/Klokov/Ivan Stoitsov.

    Loads of top guys like Ilya Ilin/Su Daijin/Aramnau/Taner Sagir. Even lots of the old school guys from when drug use was pretty rampant like Yurik Vardanyan aren't really particularly jacked.

    I don't think weightlifting (as in SN+CJ) are particularly amazing for aesthetics. Partly because of the observations that numerous (the majority?) of world class lifters aren't particularly jacked. Secondly because the lifts don't really hit the mirror muscles particularly hard to give you the appearence of looking jacked. Thirdly because for the majority of people, they are not technically proficient enough at the lifts to really stimulate that much muscle gain. I suppose also because most people don't really have access to bumpers, which help you to learn at heavier weights.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    Varbanov, the best weightlifter of all time in that weight category had a sub par physique.

    The clean and jerk is probably the most innefficient movement you can do for upper body development in terms of weight moved: muscle stimulation. As for why we suck at olympic weightlifting there are a whole range of reasons for this and most of them are completely out of our control. For an in depth look this series of articles covers it best: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tra...ng-part-1.html

    OP you would be far better off just doing some type of overhead pressing movement (a jerk is not a press as you are getting underneath the weight and then standing up with it). Much easier to learn, less weight moved, way more stimulation and a lot less likely to get injured.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    I don't understand why it wouldn't give me aesthetics though? More weight you're moving the more size to a degree? A want to do CJ because it will save me lots of time and money I can replace many exercises with one move?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    It is much easier to reply in list form:
    1. The time under tension for cleans is going to be pretty low
    2. The amount of weight you can use is gonig to be significantly limited by your technique
    3. You need to be quite mobile to do this properly
    4. Anecdotally lots of people have got **** hot at clean and jerks and not been very big or jacked (see Su Dajin etc)
    5. If you get good at cleans, you are actually trying to get good at getting under, not really pulling high. i.e. it turns into a game of having a massive front squat
    6. It causes quite a lot of joint wear and tear for the amount of muscular stimulus you get
    7. The proper technique for cleans is basically lower back and lower body. Your upper body won't get big except for perhaps traps.
    8. The guys who get jacked doing weightlifting are from systems which notoriously do a lot of non weightlifting stuff.


    To elaborate on the final point, Klokov is known for having done a 180 strict press/230 push press. He has a retardedly strong upper body. Lu Xiaojun is trained by Yu Jie. All of Yu Jie's guys do a lot of accessory work like presses/rows/lateral raises/funky squat variations/heavy pulls. So they nearly all look jacked.

    The majority of the steroid era Bulgarians under abadijev only did Snatches, Cleans, Power Snatches, Power Cleans, Split Jerks and Front Squats. Very few of them had good physiques. They were strong as **** and have records that are still not equalled today in many cases.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Blind Monk)
    It is much easier to reply in list form:
    1. The time under tension for cleans is going to be pretty low
    2. The amount of weight you can use is gonig to be significantly limited by your technique
    3. You need to be quite mobile to do this properly
    4. Anecdotally lots of people have got **** hot at clean and jerks and not been very big or jacked (see Su Dajin etc)
    5. If you get good at cleans, you are actually trying to get good at getting under, not really pulling high. i.e. it turns into a game of having a massive front squat
    6. It causes quite a lot of joint wear and tear for the amount of muscular stimulus you get
    7. The proper technique for cleans is basically lower back and lower body. Your upper body won't get big except for perhaps traps.
    8. The guys who get jacked doing weightlifting are from systems which notoriously do a lot of non weightlifting stuff.


    To elaborate on the final point, Klokov is known for having done a 180 strict press/230 push press. He has a retardedly strong upper body. Lu Xiaojun is trained by Yu Jie. All of Yu Jie's guys do a lot of accessory work like presses/rows/lateral raises/funky squat variations/heavy pulls. So they nearly all look jacked.

    The majority of the steroid era Bulgarians under abadijev only did Snatches, Cleans, Power Snatches, Power Cleans, Split Jerks and Front Squats. Very few of them had good physiques. They were strong as **** and have records that are still not equalled today in many cases.
    I see. Main reason why I was considering cj was to try and get cannon ball shoulders by jerking heavy weight. I don't think I'll do CJ. Thanks for your time.

    Edit :I watched su Dajin. Now where near as shredded as lu

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    This is total broscience but I have personally noticed that my shoulders have only started growing since I started to do about 80-100+ reps per week of lateral raises. I do them seated so as to resist the urge to throw them up like most people seem to do (of course you can still do this seated but it is a bit more awkward).

    I find that doing a **** ton of reps on those seems to have minimal impact on recovery and doesn't seem to hurt bench or dips too badly. I tried upright rows for a while which feel good but can be annoying on the wrists
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    SS + GOMAD........

    Ok but seriously I think you should look into a 4 day split (with compound lifts thrown in there).

    And have a caloric surplus

    And protein, if you arent getting the right amount of protein dont even bother trying.

    Clean and jerk is more for developing power
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Developing power is vital to getting bigger and is a cracking asset to have in life in general.

    Most importantly, make sure your getting volume in there. Even if its 9 sets of triples your getting a fair few reps in there.

    Look at 5-3-1 to build up strength in the core powerlifting three. Then try isolation exercises for more stimulation. If you just want size do 3 or 4 day splits. Clean and Jerks are awesome but isn't something to focus your workouts on if your not focused on O lifting.




    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alex_tait)
    Varbanov, the best weightlifter of all time in that weight category had a sub par physique
    Agree, in raw BBing terms but he looks better than 99% of the people on this site ever will.

    Aesthetics are basically a product of leanness anyway once you actually have some mass on you (provided you aren't looking to compete in a physique contest). The reason Klokov and friends look good is because they are lean. Xiaojun looks ridiculous because he is ripped to shreds.

    Basically, if you want to be jacked pick a few compounds (squat/press/pull) and practice them until you are awesome at them. Train a lot (4x/week minimum) and eat properly. Do this for 5 or so years and you'll look good. It's not hard it just takes a long time.

    C+J's aren't magic but in isolation, no exercise is. Can C+J's contribute to a jacked physique- sure. You just have to be good at them and train everything else hard too.
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Old School)
    Agree, in raw BBing terms but he looks better than 99% of the people on this site ever will.

    Aesthetics are basically a product of leanness anyway once you actually have some mass on you (provided you aren't looking to compete in a physique contest). The reason Klokov and friends look good is because they are lean. Xiaojun looks ridiculous because he is ripped to shreds.

    Basically, if you want to be jacked pick a few compounds (squat/press/pull) and practice them until you are awesome at them. Train a lot (4x/week minimum) and eat properly. Do this for 5 or so years and you'll look good. It's not hard it just takes a long time.

    C+J's aren't magic but in isolation, no exercise is. Can C+J's contribute to a jacked physique- sure. You just have to be good at them and train everything else hard too.
    Without sounding too harsh to other people here varbanov having a better physique than most of the people on here really isn't saying much especially when you consider that his body was the result of an absolutely gigantic workload in comparison to a regular 3x week full body routine and he was on a hell of a lot of drugs. The entire bulgarian lineup which holds all time records in almost every single weight class has sub par physiques (azen zlatev has an ok physique). You mention a few olympic weightlifters with good physiques but these guys are the minority not the majority. Their physiques are the result of them including more of the slower upper body movements in their training. We know for a fact that Klokov can strict pres a whopping 170kg and behind the neck press 100kg like it's a warmup at 105kg bodyweight which is going to contribute far more to his upper body development than the other stuff that he's doing.

    We know that strength gains drive muscle gains but the jerk doesn't build strength (unless you're a novice) it just displays it. I would much rather have someone do some type of overhead pressing movement that actually builds strength (barbell ohp possibly push press etc). The jerk doesn't improve the presses so I don't see a reason why you would fit it in. You'll be taking people who don't have the technique and mobility to perform that movement optimally for no real reason.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by alex_tait)
    x
    You know what, I'm talking bull**** again. You're absolutly right and I retract pretty much all of my previous posts in this thread. I'm basically talking about something I know very little about (O lifting). I get pissed when other people do this so it's not on that I'm now doing it too.

    Also, nice sqwat vid on your blog. The speed that bar is moving suggests to me that you could make 185/190x5 without too much trouble.
 
 
 
Poll
Which pet is the best?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.