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Cameron wants to make apprenticeships the "new norm" for non Uni goers... Watch

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    I agree with Cameron, I actually quite like him a lot of the time.
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    (Original post by TheHistoryStudent)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21734560

    What do we think?

    Personally I think it's a good idea, for even if people don't find work with a company at the end of it, they could still use the skills they've acquired from doing the apprenticeship to set up their own business or something, might actually do some good!
    Another way of stopping boys from going to university.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    so long as apprentices keep getting paid only 2 quid an hour i dont think they're going to attract much interest. apart from the people who just don't have a choice.
    I don't think that's true. I left school with all As and A*s at GCSE and chose to go and do an apprenticeship. And I'm glad I did
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    some people cant afford to work for 2 quid an hour.
    Apprenticeships are for people aged 16 - 24. The majority of these people will be living at home, so will be supported by their parents. They can afford to work for £2.65 an hour - it's an investment for their future. For a full time 40 hour week they could be earning just over £100 a week....while still living at home that's enough to buy yourself a few nice things, contribute a bit to your parents and even save a bit for the future.

    Plus, in practice, many apprenticeships organise it so that every 3 months or so pay is reviewed and if the apprentice is making progress with their NVQ, they will often have a small pay rise.
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    (Original post by TobaccoSmoke)
    Also, without a degree there will be a limit to what sort of salary you could expect to earn, which will typically be around the £25,000 mark as a maximum.

    If you want a higher salary, you've got to have a degree or a HND.
    Not true. My brother's a plumber. He left school with a handful of poor GCSE equivalents aged 15. He did a four year apprenticeship which was nowhere near HND level. He earns way more than £25k pa. He's always earned more than me and I've been a high rate taxpayer, working in major financial institutions and global IT service companies.
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    Not sure about this. I know someone who went on an apprenticeship earning £1.60 an hour. He worked there for nearly 10 months and then they finished him. Then he heard two weeks later that the company had just took on another apprentice doing the job that he did.
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    (Original post by TobaccoSmoke)
    What's the point in learning a trade if the company you did your apprenticeship with is just going to out-source to China or India a few years down the line?

    Like it or not, the UK is becoming a knowledge based economy and a degree holds far more power than any semi-skilled technical profession.
    What on Earth are you talking about? Trade jobs a not typically jobs that can even be easily outsourced to foreign countries, and most trade apprentices will usually end up going self employed or semi-self employed anyway. I would argue many information based careers are far more at risk of being outsourced than most trade work.

    There will always be a need for trades such as plumbers, electricians, locksmiths, mechanics, IT technicians, decorators and painters, carpenters, builders, gardeners, roofers, welders, machinists, farriers, chefs, etc. And there will always be niche trades that can be exploited by those with a little ingenuity and enterprise.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    why is that assumed though? why shouldn't a person without family support be able to take up an apprenticeship?
    People without some kind of family support are very often going to be excluded from a large number of things with the possible exception of the armed forces.

    The point at which someone takes up an apprenticeship might be no different from the point at which they go to college anyway - the only difference would be that they would be on day release rather than full-time. A full time student at the same college as a PT apprentice would be far worse off - and completely unable to support themselves without family support. Apprentices are being paid, students are not. Apprentices will complete with a quantum of work experience and most likely a job to go to. Students will not. Grumbling about apprentice pay is looking a gift horse in the mouth.
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    I wouldn't trust anything this government says - they haven't a clue how to handle education. Education is the key to everything, as proposed by this alternative politician - http://thechroniclesofhope.com/get-to-know-frank/

    Highly recommend the 1st book - the premise might be a little farfetched but the characters are great - Frank especially is a politician we could only dream of. Think it's still only 99p
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    (Original post by Clip)
    People without some kind of family support are very often going to be excluded from a large number of things with the possible exception of the armed forces.

    The point at which someone takes up an apprenticeship might be no different from the point at which they go to college anyway - the only difference would be that they would be on day release rather than full-time. A full time student at the same college as a PT apprentice would be far worse off - and completely unable to support themselves without family support. Apprentices are being paid, students are not. Apprentices will complete with a quantum of work experience and most likely a job to go to. Students will not. Grumbling about apprentice pay is looking a gift horse in the mouth.
    That's a good point, with the current economic situation, the amount of students leaving uni and being unable to find a job is ridiculous. Most apprenticeship programmes guarantee a job at the end assuming the qualification is completed successfully. A guaranteed job is worth a lot, especially at the moment.
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    (Original post by SpottedZebra)
    I don't think that's true. I left school with all As and A*s at GCSE and chose to go and do an apprenticeship. And I'm glad I did

    Good for you. Chances are you'll be a more productive member of society as well
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    (Original post by DavidQuinn)
    I wouldn't trust anything this government says - they haven't a clue how to handle education. Education is the key to everything, as proposed by this alternative politician - http://thechroniclesofhope.com/get-to-know-frank/

    Highly recommend the 1st book - the premise might be a little farfetched but the characters are great - Frank especially is a politician we could only dream of. Think it's still only 99p

    Accept an apprenticeship is a firm of education. A very important form of education. Give me a welder, CNC operator, electrician, plumber and maintenance people and I'll show you how to boost the economy.
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    (Original post by SpottedZebra)
    Although I generally despise Cameron, I do think this is a good idea. With uni fees going through the roof and less people being able to afford this option, and also for people that would never have wanted to go anyway, apprenticeships can teach them a trade that they will then know and be able to use for the rest of their lives. It gives people a job to fall back on, something that is a good solid job such as being a tradesman, hairdressing, childcare.

    Both me and my boyfriend went to apprenticeships after leaving school and I think they're a great way of making a career for yourself. I've ended up studying for a degree after completing my apprenticeship, so it's not even writing off ever going to uni
    It's lovely to see a success story; I feel apprenticeships are underrated!
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    (Original post by SpottedZebra)
    I get your point, that anyone can get the loan but there are still many reasons that someone might be financially unable to attend university. They could need the money from a full time job to support their family, or they could have just been brought up to believe that you should never borrow money unless absolutely necessary. University is unfortunately inaccessible for some people, and for them apprenticeships are a great option
    I agree there are reasons why someone might not be able to afford to go to university, but the recent increase in tuition fees will have no effect on that. If they need a full time job to support their family then they wouldn't be able to afford it however much the tuition costs since they are covered in their entirety by a loan.

    As for not wanting to borrow money, it's a slightly strange attitude when it comes to university. If you get free tuition (like they do in Scotland), the tuition isn't actually free, the government pays for it. So if the tuition is free, you're basically taking a hand out. So I don't see how that's better from a moral point of view than taking a loan.

    And fear of debt is irrational in the case of student loans. You'll never be made to pay back more than you can afford.

    However I do see how the large tuition fees could make apprenticeships more attractive. It could be that you think doing an apprenticeship will be more profitable than university in the long run because you don't have that debt to pay off if you do start earning a decent amount. So that's a perfectly valid reason to decide not to go to university. But the key point is that the tuition fees will never stop someone being able to go to uni if that's what they want to do.
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    I don't see anything special about this. I can't imagine it is difficult to get on to an apprenticeship anyway, if someone wants to do an apprenticeship the option is there, take it or leave it.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Good for you. Chances are you'll be a more productive member of society as well
    Thank you
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    I agree there are reasons why someone might not be able to afford to go to university, but the recent increase in tuition fees will have no effect on that. If they need a full time job to support their family then they wouldn't be able to afford it however much the tuition costs since they are covered in their entirety by a loan.

    As for not wanting to borrow money, it's a slightly strange attitude when it comes to university. If you get free tuition (like they do in Scotland), the tuition isn't actually free, the government pays for it. So if the tuition is free, you're basically taking a hand out. So I don't see how that's better from a moral point of view than taking a loan.

    And fear of debt is irrational in the case of student loans. You'll never be made to pay back more than you can afford.

    However I do see how the large tuition fees could make apprenticeships more attractive. It could be that you think doing an apprenticeship will be more profitable than university in the long run because you don't have that debt to pay off if you do start earning a decent amount. So that's a perfectly valid reason to decide not to go to university. But the key point is that the tuition fees will never stop someone being able to go to uni if that's what they want to do.
    I think a lot of people, especially people that have been brought up in a family where the attitude is very much about 'you work hard for what you get', will have those morals of not taking debt for an education. Some would probably consider it shameful to borrow money to study for a degree with the attitude of 'well, if i don't earn over so much money i won't have to pay it back anyway' or 'i'll only pay back what i can afford it'. Whether or not that opinion is 'right' or whether others oppose it, that makes getting a degree not a possibility for people with these beliefs. And if that's the way people want to live their lives, that's fine because people can make a great success out of themselves from doing an apprenticeship.
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    Every party talks about the need for more apprenticeships and more jobs for the young people. Just lip service i believe, as someone else stated.
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    (Original post by SpottedZebra)
    I don't think that's true. I left school with all As and A*s at GCSE and chose to go and do an apprenticeship. And I'm glad I did

    Which apprenticeship did you do?
    • PS Helper
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    I hope he means real apprenticeships as in the ones that take a few years to complete and you do a part time qualification during it, i.e. the ones in engineering, craftmanship etc and not these 4 month ponzi schemes from retaiil companies that call themselve apprenticeships to seem more legitimate.
 
 
 
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