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Islamist on the bus ~ would you have just minded your own business? Watch

  • View Poll Results: What would you have done?
    I'd have minded my own business, he's entitled to say what he likes
    79
    52.32%
    I'd have minded my own business, for any other reason e.g. shyness/fear/social etiquette etc
    46
    30.46%
    I'd have reacted pretty much the same way as you
    18
    11.92%
    I'd have reacted much worse than you, I think you were quite restrained!
    8
    5.30%

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    Perhaps you should have done something along these lines

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    was it the 111?
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    LOL!

    Eavesdrop and then interrupt their conversation by saying 'do you mind'.

    Oh the irony, you have way too much time on your hands.
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    I'd have ignored it. Tbh I don't confront people, look at that girl that got stabbed on the bus, not saying she confronted anyone but there's some strange people in the world. I'm religious but don't force it on people. I get on with my own life and other people can get on with theirs.
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    (Original post by hafzaaa)
    Id be pretty pissed off if someone dossed me or my way of life, and I am saying this as a Muslim myself. It makes me sick how these so called muslims judge and try to force something down your throat.

    Id have probably not said anything and ignored it though.
    Where does the OP say the muslim was trying to "force something down your throat"?
    The guy was having a normal conversation and it is clear he is a high end conservative/fundamentalist muslim. He has the right to say what he did and OP had no right in telling him otherwise. I was in the bus once and I heard someone talking about how bad immigration in this country was and how he wished all immigrants not born in Britain were deported (im a immigrant myself). Did I interfere and argue with him? No I put in my earphones in and minded my own business. Unless it is something racial, I wouldn't advice starting something over it.
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    (Original post by DK_Tipp)
    A Sexular Society.

    Sounds like a Pope's nightmare.
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    I like the sound of that society :sexface:


    I think you were quite restrained tbh OP, I'd have been far more forthright than that.
    (Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
    Horny, yes?
    ... Wow. Okay, I opened Pandora's Box of Facepalm there. :rolleyes:

    I propose the immediate development of a seXular society.
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    There will be ignorant people and overly opinionated people wherever you go in this world. I think a few muslims are the least of our worries and maybe people should be more concerned about confronting the real trouble makers in this society, rather than being spoon fed by the media and having no knowledge of their own and assuming a few extremist muslims are a threat to society.
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    As a Muslim, I know what the person meant by saying: "Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work".

    He wasn't at all meaning it in the way many non-Muslims like yourself think the term 'kafir' means - a derogatory or 'them and us' attitude when referring to non-believers. In fact, he was politely talking to the person on the other end of the phone and meant something more like this: "Don't let Shaitaan (Satan) influence you [to do whatever sinful/undesired action that guy was thinking of]. God-willing, God will guide you towards doing good. If you become a non-believer, it's the work of satan [meaning satan has misguided you away from Islam]".

    It was just a kind and meaningful advice given to his friend to stay on the right path and not be influenced by the whispers/distractions of satan which would lead him to stray away from the right path (of Islam). He was just telling him to keep his faith strong. It could have been that the other guy was thinking of doing something bad such as beating someone/ confronting someone/ or even something very minor and the other guy was just advising him not to do it and rely on God's guidance and protection from evil thoughts.

    If a Muslim heard that in the context given, they would certainly not think you were speaking of non-Muslims in a disrespectful/pejorative manner. As soon as non-muslims hear the word 'kafir', unfortunately, many think that it's an attack or insult to them and sends alarm bells and anger ringing in their head. It's just a word which means a non-believer.

    Unless you have an issue with someone offering their friend some heartfelt advice, you were taking this as being something offensive when it genuinely was not. That probably also explains why that girl gave you a funny look as she thought you were probably being paranoid and had something against Muslims. He didn't wish to get into an argument with you as he knew what he meant and it was the 'islamic thing to do' to avoid conflict and be polite.

    If anything, I find the word 'Islamist' you used to describe that person quite offensive since it's been incorrectly used and means something completely different. You should have referred to him as a Muslim.

    Also, please don't tell me that you have the word 'muslamic' in your vocabulary?

    Edit: I haven't voted in the poll as none apply.
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    I've got a life so no I wouldn't have said anything. Don't have time to waste to making disputes with strangers.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Interested to know what the rest of you would have done in the same situation (hence poll)

    So today I caught the bus (near Kingston/Richmond - quite a multicultural area but not all that many Muslims), waded through a small army of school kids and managed to nab the last seat on the top deck. I was sitting there for a little while, not paying too much attention to those around me, when I heard someone sat behind me use the word kafir (unbeliever) once or twice, and my ears pricked. I then heard:

    'Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work'


    TL;DR An islamist was talking quite loudly about how non-believers are the devil's doing and I interrupted and asked him to tone it down - would you have done the same?
    If he said



    'Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a "disbeliever" it is the devil's work' would that offend you?
    Think you over reacted mate
    and btw people who follow Islam are Muslim, not "Islamists" hahaha
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    Sheeeeesh!Its not so much of a big deal that you need to come and post it on here,but tbh you handled the situation quiet well so i rate you for that
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Why is he labelled a Islamist? He's simply being a Muslim, trying to help his friend to stay on the path
    Can you imagine that happening the other way round?

    "Do not let islam influence you. If you become a muslim, it is nothing but brainwashing from there" Is the equivelant. It wouldn't be acceptable. Saying that me, as a non-believer am the work of the devil is outright insulting. I wouldn't have it.

    And in reference to a few posts above: I don't understand why people are moaning over the word 'kaffir' more than the fact that they (on the bus in the OP) think us atheists are being controlled by evil. It implies a lot of things. It implies we have no morals. It implies they think we are inferior to them. Let's forget about the whole 'kafir' thing yeah?
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    First of all, I don't see how someone just saying these few sentences is automatically an Islamist rather than a Muslim...you meet weird people on the bus occasionally, so what?

    What we probably want to talk about here is fundamentalists...when it comes to that (imaginary) scenario I can say: I probably would have reacted in some way, but reacting by saying that 'This is England' and thereby implicating that his behaviour is somehow an aspect of the out-group is one of the most stupid things one could do in my opinion. Islamist extremism doesn't have anything to do with the Middle East anymore, it has long been globalised and such behaviour in Britain has to be recognised as a British phenomenon It is a British phenomenon! Simply dismissing religious extremism as 'not British' is not getting to the root of the problem, neither will it help since one of the main aspects of the separation between religious fundamentalists and the (outwards) secular population lies with their different identity. If things happen in our society, they are OUR problem and they have to be addressed as such; and it is of particular importance to also acknowledge that the people through whom the problem shows itself are members of this society. I think it'd be much better to argue with these fundamentalists on a much more general level, that doesn't draw this line of distinct identities (since doing so would only strengthen the divide, which is exactly what we don't want). I'd probably argue about the philosophical flaws of religious fundamentalism or the concept of tolerance in a general way, because this will hopefully be seen as a purely intellectual attack rather than one relating to identity - I believe that it is much easier to change intellectual beliefs than it is to change beliefs about one's own identity. If the concepts he argues with start becoming more intellectual and less of a personal identification, he'll hopefully be able to reject them sooner or later because they're nonsensical.
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    And they say Muslims overreact...
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    (Original post by Lewk)
    Can you imagine that happening the other way round?

    "Do not let islam influence you. If you become a muslim, it is nothing but brainwashing from there" Is the equivelant. It wouldn't be acceptable. Saying that me, as a non-believer am the work of the devil is outright insulting. I wouldn't have it.
    read below


    (Original post by Hustler-1337)
    As a Muslim, I know what the person meant by saying: "Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work".

    He wasn't at all meaning it in the way many non-Muslims like yourself think the term 'kafir' means - a derogatory or 'them and us' attitude when referring to non-believers. In fact, he was politely talking to the person on the other end of the phone and meant something more like this: "Don't let Shaitaan (Satan) influence you [to do whatever sinful/undesired action that guy was thinking of]. God-willing, God will guide you towards doing good. If you become a non-believer, it's the work of satan [meaning satan has misguided you away from Islam]".

    It was just a kind and meaningful advice given to his friend to stay on the right path and not be influenced by the whispers/distractions of satan which would lead him to stray away from the right path (of Islam). He was just telling him to keep his faith strong. It could have been that the other guy was thinking of doing something bad such as beating someone/ confronting someone/ or even something very minor and the other guy was just advising him not to do it and rely on God's guidance and protection from evil thoughts.

    If a Muslim heard that in the context given, they would certainly not think you were speaking of non-Muslims in a disrespectful/pejorative manner. As soon as non-muslims hear the word 'kafir', unfortunately, many think that it's an attack or insult to them and sends alarm bells and anger ringing in their head. It's just a word which means a non-believer.

    Unless you have an issue with someone offering their friend some heartfelt advice, you were taking this as being something offensive when it genuinely was not. That probably also explains why that girl gave you a funny look as she thought you were probably being paranoid and had something against Muslims. He didn't wish to get into an argument with you as he knew what he meant and it was the 'islamic thing to do' to avoid conflict and be polite.

    If anything, I find the word 'Islamist' you used to describe that person quite offensive since it's been incorrectly used and means something completely different. You should have referred to him as a Muslim.

    Also, please don't tell me that you have the word 'muslamic' in your vocabulary?

    Edit: I haven't voted in the poll as none apply.

    (Original post by silent ninja)
    I find it it funny when non-muslims get all offended by the word kaafir. Well if you don't believe in Islam then you are one. Big deal. It's just a word to describe non Muslims. It's not derogatory, except the way the media use the word in recent times. It's a word centuries old.

    The fact your thread title includes the word 'Islamist" suggests you are the typical brain dead, fickle and ignorant type the daily mail target.

    Where's the option for "OP is a douche" ?
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Interested to know what the rest of you would have done in the same situation (hence poll)

    So today I caught the bus (near Kingston/Richmond - quite a multicultural area but not all that many Muslims), waded through a small army of school kids and managed to nab the last seat on the top deck. I was sitting there for a little while, not paying too much attention to those around me, when I heard someone sat behind me use the word kafir (unbeliever) once or twice, and my ears pricked. I then heard:

    'Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work'

    At which point I turned round and said: "Do you mind?"

    The guy was a young, bearded Asian man of medium build wearing traditional intricate white Taqiyah and Eastern attire, his counterpart was a stocky South East Asian with a similarly pronounced beard and distinct attire, but no Taqiyah

    Initially the Asian guy didn't seem too bothered by my interjection (I think he assumed I didn't know what kafir meant and that perhaps I was complaining about him talking), but then I explained to him that he was talking within earshot of plenty of 'kafir'. He remonstrated that he was having a private conversation, so I reminded him that public transport is just that.. public

    He didn't back down so I told him "this is the UK, people don't go around speaking like that here"

    To which he insisted that he was "English, British, a British-Muslim!"

    I said, 'I'm sure you are mate, in which case you'll know that ours is a secular society. If you live in a multicultural society you need to show a certain degree of respect and sensitivity. You're surrounded by "kafir", you're talking one'

    He said something like 'Do you know what, not even gonna bova' and piped down

    I turned round and tried to cool down (this situation was pretty intense as you can imagine, turning to confront someone that is sitting immediately behind you). He muttered to his sidekick for a little while, I did my best not to listen and started to think perhaps it hadn't really been my business, heard a few more Insha'Allah's and then..

    ..eventually felt him tap me on the shoulder. He had calmed down and was clearly trying to make peace/make himself/Islam not look like 'the bad guy'. He tried to explain that he wasn't saying that all kafir are the devil, but that the devil is a kafir and that in Islam Muslims are thought of as being 'the highest level' and kafir is just a distinct group

    I just let him say his piece, accepted his almost-apology, and explained that I wasn't trying to have a go at Islam per sae, and that "I would say the same thing to a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu but i'd be failing in my civic duty if I didn't say something in that situation", before turning back around. I got off the bus a few stops later but not before an asian schoolgirl who must have overheard our conversation from further back down the bus got off - she shot me a sort of deep, dark eyed, pensive glare as she went down the stairs

    TL;DR An islamist was talking quite loudly about how non-believers are the devil's doing and I interrupted and asked him to tone it down - would you have done the same?
    The social policeman has spoken.
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    why don't you mind your own dam business?
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    I wouldn't have done anything as I don't even know what Kafir is.


    I probably would have just thought he was trying to say to his mate lets go for a coffee
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Interested to know what the rest of you would have done in the same situation (hence poll)

    So today I caught the bus (near Kingston/Richmond - quite a multicultural area but not all that many Muslims), waded through a small army of school kids and managed to nab the last seat on the top deck. I was sitting there for a little while, not paying too much attention to those around me, when I heard someone sat behind me use the word kafir (unbeliever) once or twice, and my ears pricked. I then heard:

    'Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work'

    At which point I turned round and said: "Do you mind?"

    The guy was a young, bearded Asian man of medium build wearing traditional intricate white Taqiyah and Eastern attire, his counterpart was a stocky South East Asian with a similarly pronounced beard and distinct attire, but no Taqiyah

    Initially the Asian guy didn't seem too bothered by my interjection (I think he assumed I didn't know what kafir meant and that perhaps I was complaining about him talking), but then I explained to him that he was talking within earshot of plenty of 'kafir'. He remonstrated that he was having a private conversation, so I reminded him that public transport is just that.. public

    He didn't back down so I told him "this is the UK, people don't go around speaking like that here"

    To which he insisted that he was "English, British, a British-Muslim!"

    I said, 'I'm sure you are mate, in which case you'll know that ours is a secular society. If you live in a multicultural society you need to show a certain degree of respect and sensitivity. You're surrounded by "kafir", you're talking one'

    He said something like 'Do you know what, not even gonna bova' and piped down

    I turned round and tried to cool down (this situation was pretty intense as you can imagine, turning to confront someone that is sitting immediately behind you). He muttered to his sidekick for a little while, I did my best not to listen and started to think perhaps it hadn't really been my business, heard a few more Insha'Allah's and then..

    ..eventually felt him tap me on the shoulder. He had calmed down and was clearly trying to make peace/make himself/Islam not look like 'the bad guy'. He tried to explain that he wasn't saying that all kafir are the devil, but that the devil is a kafir and that in Islam Muslims are thought of as being 'the highest level' and kafir is just a distinct group

    I just let him say his piece, accepted his almost-apology, and explained that I wasn't trying to have a go at Islam per sae, and that "I would say the same thing to a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu but i'd be failing in my civic duty if I didn't say something in that situation", before turning back around. I got off the bus a few stops later but not before an asian schoolgirl who must have overheard our conversation from further back down the bus got off - she shot me a sort of deep, dark eyed, pensive glare as she went down the stairs

    TL;DR An islamist was talking quite loudly about how non-believers are the devil's doing and I interrupted and asked him to tone it down - would you have done the same?
    Your story was more mellow than I anticipated.

    After all, it is not like he directly insulted you. It seems to be something he was discussing with his friend. He didn't display any hate filled gestures towards you. Rather the opposite I imagine with his apology.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Interested to know what the rest of you would have done in the same situation (hence poll)

    He didn't back down so I told him "this is the UK, people don't go around speaking like that here"
    Well, this particular part isn't really nice of you IMO :erm:
    You're making the person sound like a total outsider that can't speak his mind; isn't speaking one's mind is an aspect of a civilized society these days?

    But after thinking about it more, I could understand why you would feel uncomfortable with the situation.

    Although I say that, a theist doesn't need to confirm to what the atheist believes in. I don't think the UK is a secular society even.

    To which he insisted that he was "English, British, a British-Muslim!"
    This has made the situation :pinch:

    I said, 'I'm sure you are mate, in which case you'll know that ours is a secular society. If you live in a multicultural society you need to show a certain degree of respect and sensitivity. You're surrounded by "kafir", you're talking one'
    As I said, I don't think the UK is a secular society.

    He said something like 'Do you know what, not even gonna bova' and piped down

    I turned round and tried to cool down (this situation was pretty intense as you can imagine, turning to confront someone that is sitting immediately behind you). He muttered to his sidekick for a little while, I did my best not to listen and started to think perhaps it hadn't really been my business, heard a few more Insha'Allah's and then..
    You must have been a nervous wreck when this was happening

    ..eventually felt him tap me on the shoulder. He had calmed down and was clearly trying to make peace/make himself/Islam not look like 'the bad guy'. He tried to explain that he wasn't saying that all kafir are the devil, but that the devil is a kafir and that in Islam Muslims are thought of as being 'the highest level' and kafir is just a distinct group
    Did you feel annoyed when he said this? I would.

    I just let him say his piece, accepted his almost-apology, and explained that I wasn't trying to have a go at Islam per sae, and that "I would say the same thing to a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu but i'd be failing in my civic duty if I didn't say something in that situation", before turning back around. I got off the bus a few stops later but not before an asian schoolgirl who must have overheard our conversation from further back down the bus got off - she shot me a sort of deep, dark eyed, pensive glare as she went down the stairs
    Hehe, you made it sound like she's going to rape you or something

    TL;DR An islamist was talking quite loudly about how non-believers are the devil's doing and I interrupted and asked him to tone it down - would you have done the same?
    I don't think the person is an islamist really; just someone who's into the religion deeply.

    If it were me... well, I find all sorts of religion interesting; probably I'd join in with their "discussion" :awesome:
 
 
 
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