Islamist on the bus ~ would you have just minded your own business?

I like the sound of that society


I think you were quite restrained tbh OP, I'd have been far more forthright than that.

Perhaps you should have done something along these lines

Do tell

Well for one "Do you mind" is far too diplomatic for me - there'd be a bit more swearing in there.

Interested to know what the rest of you would have done in the same situation (hence poll)

So today I caught the bus (near Kingston/Richmond - quite a multicultural area but not all that many Muslims), waded through a small army of school kids and managed to nab the last seat on the top deck. I was sitting there for a little while, not paying too much attention to those around me, when I heard someone sat behind me use the word kafir (unbeliever) once or twice, and my ears pricked. I then heard:

'Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work'

At which point I turned round and said: "Do you mind?"

The guy was a young, bearded Asian man of medium build wearing traditional intricate white Taqiyah and Eastern attire, his counterpart was a stocky South East Asian with a similarly pronounced beard and distinct attire, but no Taqiyah

Initially the Asian guy didn't seem too bothered by my interjection (I think he assumed I didn't know what kafir meant and that perhaps I was complaining about him talking), but then I explained to him that he was talking within earshot of plenty of 'kafir'. He remonstrated that he was having a private conversation, so I reminded him that public transport is just that.. public

He didn't back down so I told him "this is the UK, people don't go around speaking like that here"

To which he insisted that he was "English, British, a British-Muslim!"

I said, 'I'm sure you are mate, in which case you'll know that ours is a secular society. If you live in a multicultural society you need to show a certain degree of respect and sensitivity. You're surrounded by "kafir", you're talking one'

He said something like 'Do you know what, not even gonna bova' and piped down

I turned round and tried to cool down (this situation was pretty intense as you can imagine, turning to confront someone that is sitting immediately behind you). He muttered to his sidekick for a little while, I did my best not to listen and started to think perhaps it hadn't really been my business, heard a few more Insha'Allah's and then..

..eventually felt him tap me on the shoulder. He had calmed down and was clearly trying to make peace/make himself/Islam not look like 'the bad guy'. He tried to explain that he wasn't saying that all kafir are the devil, but that the devil is a kafir and that in Islam Muslims are thought of as being 'the highest level' and kafir is just a distinct group

I just let him say his piece, accepted his almost-apology, and explained that I wasn't trying to have a go at Islam per sae, and that "I would say the same thing to a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu but i'd be failing in my civic duty if I didn't say something in that situation", before turning back around. I got off the bus a few stops later but not before an asian schoolgirl who must have overheard our conversation from further back down the bus got off - she shot me a sort of deep, dark eyed, pensive glare as she went down the stairs

TL;DR An islamist was talking quite loudly about how non-believers are the devil's doing and I interrupted and asked him to tone it down - would you have done the same?

Interested to know what the rest of you would have done in the same situation (hence poll)

So today I caught the bus (near Kingston/Richmond - quite a multicultural area but not all that many Muslims), waded through a small army of school kids and managed to nab the last seat on the top deck. I was sitting there for a little while, not paying too much attention to those around me, when I heard someone sat behind me use the word kafir (unbeliever) once or twice, and my ears pricked. I then heard:

'Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work'

At which point I turned round and said: "Do you mind?"

The guy was a young, bearded Asian man of medium build wearing traditional intricate white Taqiyah and Eastern attire, his counterpart was a stocky South East Asian with a similarly pronounced beard and distinct attire, but no Taqiyah

Initially the Asian guy didn't seem too bothered by my interjection (I think he assumed I didn't know what kafir meant and that perhaps I was complaining about him talking), but then I explained to him that he was talking within earshot of plenty of 'kafir'. He remonstrated that he was having a private conversation, so I reminded him that public transport is just that.. public

He didn't back down so I told him "this is the UK, people don't go around speaking like that here"

To which he insisted that he was "English, British, a British-Muslim!"

I said, 'I'm sure you are mate, in which case you'll know that ours is a secular society. If you live in a multicultural society you need to show a certain degree of respect and sensitivity. You're surrounded by "kafir", you're talking one'

He said something like 'Do you know what, not even gonna bova' and piped down

I turned round and tried to cool down (this situation was pretty intense as you can imagine, turning to confront someone that is sitting immediately behind you). He muttered to his sidekick for a little while, I did my best not to listen and started to think perhaps it hadn't really been my business, heard a few more Insha'Allah's and then..

..eventually felt him tap me on the shoulder. He had calmed down and was clearly trying to make peace/make himself/Islam not look like 'the bad guy'. He tried to explain that he wasn't saying that all kafir are the devil, but that the devil is a kafir and that in Islam Muslims are thought of as being 'the highest level' and kafir is just a distinct group

I just let him say his piece, accepted his almost-apology, and explained that I wasn't trying to have a go at Islam per sae, and that "I would say the same thing to a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu but i'd be failing in my civic duty if I didn't say something in that situation", before turning back around. I got off the bus a few stops later but not before an asian schoolgirl who must have overheard our conversation from further back down the bus got off - she shot me a sort of deep, dark eyed, pensive glare as she went down the stairs

TL;DR An islamist was talking quite loudly about how non-believers are the devil's doing and I interrupted and asked him to tone it down - would you have done the same?

You've got too much time if you're caring about what a randomer says on the bus. There are nearly eight million people in London.

Perhaps you should have done something along these lines

I'm confused - is "Kafir" a particularly insulting word? I wouldn't mind being called a "non-believer", and would just ignore them if they said that being a "non-believer" is the devils work. By the very nature of atheism, we don't even believe in the devil, so it's as insulting as saying humans where gods creation

Well had they been Christian and saying those sorts of things I would've assumed that they were just a loony and ignored them (just as if a mad cat-lady had been muttering nonsense whilst sitting behind me), so I wouldn't have said anything to him.

But if he had been deliberately obtrusive and in-your-face then I would've told him to quiet down

Orthodox Muslim, who declares rather publicly that not subscribing to Islam is the work of the devil (by extension non-believers are ostensive puppets of the devil). Few would find use of the term Islamist contentious here..

Sitting on the bus waiting to get somewhere.. yes.. by definition I have time