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A homosexual muslim's dilemma. Watch

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    (Original post by Harrie Lyons)
    My point is drugs are stupid but people still do it. Being gay is stupid and pointless but people still do it. People are stupid.
    How is it pointless if the couple love each other? :lolwut:
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    Watch eastenders syeds storyline, maybe it might help,,,
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    (Original post by Harrie Lyons)
    My point is drugs are stupid but people still do it. Being gay is stupid and pointless but people still do it. People are stupid.
    No, that post was
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    (Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
    No, that post was
    Hey I ain't the one getting hung in Iran because I can't stay away from other men. You'd think out of self preservation they wouldn't be gay
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    (Original post by hamza1394)
    In regards to expectation of marriage I agree its totally wrong because you would be wrecking the life of another perfectly innocent girl. I just believe that if you are to embrace your sexuality with the faith then just cut urself off your original community and live separately probably in a new city...I'm not gay but am a Muslim and realize that our culture is unbelievably naiive and backwards about sexuality...why would a muslim be gay by choice and so it must be something else and parents have to act as anchors and not icebergs or else they will drown their own kids lives.

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    If I were him, I'd opt for leaving. It's the simplest option. For the most part, Muslim communities are tolerant until someone among them believes different. It's one thing respecting people's choices and a whole other thing when someone close to you is not what you thought they were. He cannot prepare himself for the way his family and friends will react.
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    (Original post by Harrie Lyons)
    YOU WEREN'T BORN THAT WAY you saying the opposite over and over again to make yourself feel better doesn't make it true. I'd love someone to show me single shred of evidence that ppl are born gay, esp. When most gays give a rough time post puberty when they 'realised' they we gay. ROFL.
    Give me evidence proving that we're all born heterosexual.
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    (Original post by Harrie Lyons)
    My point is drugs are stupid but people still do it. Being gay is stupid and pointless but people still do it. People are stupid.
    Hard drugs prove a relatively immediate danger to health. Compare that to the temporary high and extortionate costs and you could say the use of drugs isn't worth it, therefore stupid. How you could be stupid enough to compare that to sexuality, I don't know.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Yes, that thought does hurt me a lot, however in Islam, Allah gives the hardest tests to those he loves the most. It's whether I have the strength within me to remain celibate for the rest of my life. At the moment, it is extremely mentally and psychologically difficult for me. Hence why I started this thread, for advice.
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    The other thing I would suggest you consider, is this.

    You mention feelings of low self esteem and self disgust. Also issues with depression.

    Frankly none of these are surprising. You know you are gay, that it is you. You are sexually attracted to some guys you meet, you fantasise about sexual acts with them.

    Yet you have been taught, from birth, that these acts are wrong, evil, haram. That if you indulge in them you will burn in fires of hell.

    You read about "sodomy" in religious texts and you accept their view on it. Sodom, after all is described in the Old Testament! So what else can you feel, when you read that these acts are evil, and wrong, and yet YOU in your heart of hearts fantasise about them, but self disgust and guilt?

    I say that you have to embrace these desires. That they are perfectly natural! You are not disgusting in fantasising about them. Or doing them! Why would god be so against you having pleasure if no-one else is harmed and you both love each other? Even if you don't, but just want a good time?

    What is wrong is the feeling of guilt and low self worth and self esteem that these outdated, primitive, views on homosexuality engender.

    I have no idea how many Christians and Muslims commit adultery. But it must be tens and tens of millions. Perhaps many are in terrible fear of the fires of hell, but they still seem to take the risk. There doesn't seem to be the same issues of depression and low self worth associated with it at any event.

    Sure, the religions don't like adulterers (especially female ones) but it really seems to be the gays that they most have it in for.

    The culture and religious belief system is making out that you are the problem, yours is the "sin" yours will be the punishment. And that has its consequences on your well being.

    But based on what exactly????
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    (Original post by Harrie Lyons)
    Hey I ain't the one getting hung in Iran because I can't stay away from other men. You'd think out of self preservation they wouldn't be gay
    That's a nonsensical post, again, you don't choose to be gay :facepalm:
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Firstly being 'gay and muslim' is wrong just like in any other religion!
    The Quran itself says the throne of god shakes when a guy mounts another guy
    Thus any doing that upsets god is clearly haram,
    Secondly as a 'gay muslim' my self that struggles with this mentality of being attracted to
    Other guys I have researched and researched endlessly and In which I have had no answers
    And quit frankally nor will you as the person that knows the answer is you!
    Yes you can get reassurance from fellow gays but will they be going through the same thing as
    You? No they won't everybody finds their own way of dealing with their problems

    You need to choose do you want to be a Muslim that is gay but thinks of it as a test by god and
    Finds calmity and peace by praying in which inshallah your patience shall be rewarded for or do
    You want to be a Muslim that is gay and acts on his desires and receive punishment in the afterlife?
    I think the OP said it wasn't actually in the Koran anyway, but I just wanted to say that there are around 7 billion people on this earth, and according to some research around ten per cent of the men are gay.

    Say three and a half billion then times ten per cent equals three hundred and fifty million gay guys. Some are too old, some too young for sex, and some celibate.

    But you have to figure there are getting on for two hundred million sexually active gay guys. Merrily "mounting" each other day and night, three hundred and sixty five days a year, all over the planet.

    So if the throne of God shakes every single time that is quite some disturbance!
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    (Original post by Harrie Lyons)
    That's like saying 'what Muslim would be a thief by choice, there must be other factors'
    Precisely

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    I really don't understand why people say Islam is a peaceful religion and how the media exaggerates Muslims. True, I don't believe for a second all Muslims are terrorists, that's ridiculous. But how can Muslims say they're peaceful and loving when their religion deny basic human rights to people like the OP who didn't choose to be gay? Can someone elaborate because I don't get it.
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    (Original post by mariocasas)
    I really don't understand why people say Islam is a peaceful religion and how the media exaggerates Muslims. True, I don't believe for a second all Muslims are terrorists, that's ridiculous. But how can Muslims say they're peaceful and loving when their religion deny basic human rights to people like the OP who didn't choose to be gay? Can someone elaborate because I don't get it.
    The Islamic belief system isn't "peaceful and loving" it is based on fear of punishment.

    The OP has been taught (poor guy) that for him to perform gay sexual activities is to be an abomination in the sight of his god.

    Further, if he commits said acts (which as a gay man is as natural as "normal" sex is to heterosexuals) he runs the very real risk of spending an eternity in hell.

    Of course that is absurd, but it isn't to him. He really believes it.

    And there are lots of other Muslims to tell him "he has a screw loose" for being gay, and he is going to end up in hell because of it. Nice.

    Peaceful, loving? Nah...
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    (Original post by zippy100012)
    Well then she clearly failed the test god gave her. As the OP has said before, god gives everyone a test that he knows isn't too hard for the person to handle. Homosexual intimacy in Islam is forbidden. If you're gay you have to tough it out, that's just how it is, there is no "ohh, but even though gay sex is forbidden I can still do it because I pray everyday etc.etc." no, because by that logic you can eat pork if you pray everyday. Anal sex is forbidden as much as pork is, there's no two ways about it.
    Thank you for responding.

    Ok let's say that Anal intercourse is haram (which it is, but let's just put it to one side)

    Do you think homosexual intimacy is just limited to sex? Why is it that when people (especially religious people) think of homosexuality, they only think of an erect penis up someone's backside. Homosexuality is a lot more than some sexual act and I think this is something that you (as well as a lot of other people) need to understand. It would be narrow minded of me to think that heterosexual intimacy was limited to just sex, so why is it that homosexual intimacy is just limited to that in your eyes?
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    (Original post by Ashahedow)
    Hey!
    I was like this at a point in my life. If you insist on believing in a religion that tells you you're wrong and will burn in hell for being yourself, these are your options:

    -Keep the acceptance of your Muslim community by pretending you're straight. This'll prove difficult because sooner or later they'll expect you to get married. If you remain 'single' in their eyes whilst dating men, they could try to arrange a marriage for you/set you up. This could prove massively difficult.

    - If you're old enough, leave the community and set up a life where you can have your faith and sexuality. This is the simplest option because you'll be able to live openly and no one will expect a certain standard of behaviour from you.

    -Tell your family and expect to be alienated from them. There's a chance they could grow to acknowledge or support your decision but it WON'T be the same as it is now.

    I'm no longer Muslim. I made this decision a long time before I realized I was attracted to both genders. Once I stopped being religious, I embraced the Western lifestyle, which was a huge problem for my mother. It resulted in constant fighting on her part because she was still in denial of what I was. I tore my family apart because of the way I dressed, who I was friends with and my interests. If I could go back, I would have hidden my true self from my mother until I could leave. The honesty was a relief but not worth the impact it had on my family.
    Point is, people find it hard to accept a lifestyle they're raised to despise. It's just what happens. It'll be even worse for you if you're part of a close-knit community.

    I don't recommend you rid yourself of faith as it's a part of you. It would be the equivalent of me telling you to be heterosexual.
    Thank you for responding.

    And thank you for your advice. I will probably have to take one of those options.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    The other thing I would suggest you consider, is this.

    You mention feelings of low self esteem and self disgust. Also issues with depression.

    Frankly none of these are surprising. You know you are gay, that it is you. You are sexually attracted to some guys you meet, you fantasise about sexual acts with them.

    Yet you have been taught, from birth, that these acts are wrong, evil, haram. That if you indulge in them you will burn in fires of hell.

    You read about "sodomy" in religious texts and you accept their view on it. Sodom, after all is described in the Old Testament! So what else can you feel, when you read that these acts are evil, and wrong, and yet YOU in your heart of hearts fantasise about them, but self disgust and guilt?

    I say that you have to embrace these desires. That they are perfectly natural! You are not disgusting in fantasising about them. Or doing them! Why would god be so against you having pleasure if no-one else is harmed and you both love each other? Even if you don't, but just want a good time?

    What is wrong is the feeling of guilt and low self worth and self esteem that these outdated, primitive, views on homosexuality engender.

    I have no idea how many Christians and Muslims commit adultery. But it must be tens and tens of millions. Perhaps many are in terrible fear of the fires of hell, but they still seem to take the risk. There doesn't seem to be the same issues of depression and low self worth associated with it at any event.

    Sure, the religions don't like adulterers (especially female ones) but it really seems to be the gays that they most have it in for.

    The culture and religious belief system is making out that you are the problem, yours is the "sin" yours will be the punishment. And that has its consequences on your well being.

    But based on what exactly????
    Thank you for responding.

    I have accepted myself as homosexual and Muslim. I don't see much of an issue with reconciling with both any longer, but it's more to do with the society and how they portray it. I wrote about the hypocrisy of the community in my blog. They will berate the LGBTQI community so hard, but a lot these people will still be dealing in interest, showing extreme disrespect to their parents, backbiting/slandering, committing adultery (pre and post marital), drinking alcohol and gambling, but they will never say that you cannot be an alcoholic and Muslim or that you cannot deal in interest and be Muslim. Most of the sins I've listed here are more sinful than the act of sodomy. I didn't say that, many of the imaams and scholars have said that.

    There are only a couple of Major sins that actually take one out of the fold of Islam. Anyone that does say that I cannot be gay and Muslim clearly has no knowledge about the topic and are talking out of their backsides (talking without knowledge about the religion is also a major sin).

    And yet I will always view all of these people that commit these sins as Muslim. People sin, make mistakes and F up that doesn't mean you condemn them to hell. So before any other self righteous and arrogant Muslim (now that IS an oxymoron) tells me that I have no idea about the religion of Islam and I'm writing anything that I like let me tell you this. Many of us LGBTQI Muslims probably have MORE knowledge about the religion than the average guy, because we've had to research it. We've had to read up on so many different topics to get answers. I would suggest that more people did that.

    I have always said that it has much more to do with culture than anything else. Culture is what defines us now, NOT Islam, no matter how much you want to tell yourself that you are. If you were truly defining yourself by Islam you would be at least sympathetic and not so damn judgemental and condemning because the religion of Islam disallows that completely.

    It's also worth pointing out that the world generally views lesbianism less negatively than men who have sex with men and then those men that are considered "tops" are viewed as more masculine than the so called "bottoms" because of their sexual roles.

    I do have guilt issues which I am working on, but that will take some time to get over.

    I have begun to cease caring about the people (and their opinions) and focussing my effort on the being that did create me the way I am.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Thank you for responding.

    I have accepted myself as homosexual and Muslim. I don't see much of an issue with reconciling with both any longer, but it's more to do with the society and how they portray it. I wrote about the hypocrisy of the community in my blog. They will berate the LGBTQI community so hard, but a lot these people will still be dealing in interest, showing extreme disrespect to their parents, backbiting/slandering, committing adultery (pre and post marital), drinking alcohol and gambling, but they will never say that you cannot be an alcoholic and Muslim or that you cannot deal in interest and be Muslim. Most of the sins I've listed here are more sinful than the act of sodomy. I didn't say that, many of the imaams and scholars have said that.

    There are only a couple of Major sins that actually take one out of the fold of Islam. Anyone that does say that I cannot be gay and Muslim clearly has no knowledge about the topic and are talking out of their backsides (talking without knowledge about the religion is also a major sin).

    And yet I will always view all of these people that commit these sins as Muslim. People sin, make mistakes and F up that doesn't mean you condemn them to hell. So before any other self righteous and arrogant Muslim (now that IS an oxymoron) tells me that I have no idea about the religion of Islam and I'm writing anything that I like let me tell you this. Many of us LGBTQI Muslims probably have MORE knowledge about the religion than the average guy, because we've had to research it. We've had to read up on so many different topics to get answers. I would suggest that more people did that.

    I have always said that it has much more to do with culture than anything else. Culture is what defines us now, NOT Islam, no matter how much you want to tell yourself that you are. If you were truly defining yourself by Islam you would be at least sympathetic and not so damn judgemental and condemning because the religion of Islam disallows that completely.

    It's also worth pointing out that the world generally views lesbianism less negatively than men who have sex with men and then those men that are considered "tops" are viewed as more masculine than the so called "bottoms" because of their sexual roles.

    I do have guilt issues which I am working on, but that will take some time to get over.

    I have begun to cease caring about the people (and their opinions) and focussing my effort on the being that did create me the way I am.
    I agree with you mate...I hope things work out for the best and Allah answers all your prayers

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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    (Before I begin, I just want to say that I know the stance of homosexuality within Islam and it's rulings and that I do adhere to my religion and no, homosexuality is not a choice).

    I am a gay muslim and wanted to get some advice. Apart from 2 people, no one knows that I am gay. Trying to reconcile my homosexuality with Islam has been hard, to say the least, and it doesn't help that I have hardly anyone to talk to about this, hence why I am making this thread.

    What can I do to reconcile with myself, instead of going into a pit of depression, anxiety and self hatred, which I am slowly going into? Telling anyone within the family or the muslim community would be social suicide and I would treated as someone with an incurable highly infectious disease. Any advice would be appreciated, particularly from any other gay muslims.
    My brother! Do read this through, please, if you can.
    Let me, a fellow Muslim, begin with saying that what goes on in your personal life is not particularly anybody's business so long as it does not impact society at large.

    A major problem with us Muslims lies in a sort of presumptuous, holier-than-thou attitude, wherein one believes oneself to be on some sort of high-way to Salvation. Nevertheless, Hubris is most deleterious.

    For me, the only significant issue with homosexuality lies only in that it confuses gender roles in society, I think. But if your sexual orientation has otherwise no significant influence on your responsibilities, duties, character and above all your Morality as a Muslim, I think you should be alright.

    Remember, the Final Judgment remains with God. And if you're absolutely convinced that you are, in fact, homosexual, then, worry not!
    No God would damn you solely for the way He created you. All I say is, my dear brother, live life as you otherwise would. Accept who you are first. Eliminate all semblance of guilt or misery.

    Understand that, Islam stresses God's Mercy above His Wrath. And do not fear. If you are as you are, then you are not implicitly doing anything wrong.

    I do not believe men, Muslims or otherwise, have any right to make judgements as to your salvation or damnation, (as I know we are wont to do) unless it impinges on society at large. For example, yes, we can condemn the Murderer or venerate the Philanthropist, but in the end, only God knows the final state of affairs.

    Please, do not fear. Do not leave. Do not worry.
    Strive, as always, for the greatest good, as you see it, and feel it.

    Finally, no, I do not think that it is wise to reveal this to your community as of right now. All you will get, I suppose, is alienation. Instead, I ask that you have patience, and keep steadfast.

    If you ever need to talk, do not hesitate to PM me, man.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Thank you for responding.

    I have accepted myself as homosexual and Muslim. I don't see much of an issue with reconciling with both any longer, but it's more to do with the society and how they portray it. I wrote about the hypocrisy of the community in my blog. They will berate the LGBTQI community so hard, but a lot these people will still be dealing in interest, showing extreme disrespect to their parents, backbiting/slandering, committing adultery (pre and post marital), drinking alcohol and gambling, but they will never say that you cannot be an alcoholic and Muslim or that you cannot deal in interest and be Muslim. Most of the sins I've listed here are more sinful than the act of sodomy. I didn't say that, many of the imaams and scholars have said that.

    There are only a couple of Major sins that actually take one out of the fold of Islam. Anyone that does say that I cannot be gay and Muslim clearly has no knowledge about the topic and are talking out of their backsides (talking without knowledge about the religion is also a major sin).

    And yet I will always view all of these people that commit these sins as Muslim. People sin, make mistakes and F up that doesn't mean you condemn them to hell. So before any other self righteous and arrogant Muslim (now that IS an oxymoron) tells me that I have no idea about the religion of Islam and I'm writing anything that I like let me tell you this. Many of us LGBTQI Muslims probably have MORE knowledge about the religion than the average guy, because we've had to research it. We've had to read up on so many different topics to get answers. I would suggest that more people did that.

    I have always said that it has much more to do with culture than anything else. Culture is what defines us now, NOT Islam, no matter how much you want to tell yourself that you are. If you were truly defining yourself by Islam you would be at least sympathetic and not so damn judgemental and condemning because the religion of Islam disallows that completely.

    It's also worth pointing out that the world generally views lesbianism less negatively than men who have sex with men and then those men that are considered "tops" are viewed as more masculine than the so called "bottoms" because of their sexual roles.

    I do have guilt issues which I am working on, but that will take some time to get over.

    I have begun to cease caring about the people (and their opinions) and focussing my effort on the being that did create me the way I am.
    I think that is a fantastically brave and intelligent post.

    The key point is that it isn't for other Muslims to tell you what to do, it is between you and your maker. I am an atheist, so I don't believe there is a god, but I understand that you do, and respect your faith, even though that sounds odd.

    In fact I respect your faith as much, if not more than anyone else I have come across. You are suffering for your faith, you are working it out in your mind, and doing so in a way which is really quite inspirational.

    If there is a god, and he is really as you believe him to be, then I am sure that if anyone is to be saved it will be you.

    The issue, as you say here, and have alluded to before is the culture of your parent community. Of course that springs from Islam, but is also a discrete entity.

    I don't know how you can reconcile your sexuality with the bigotry and narrow mindedness and (not politically correct, but it is true) sheer backwardness it demonstrates towards gay people. Not sure that you can.

    Your choice seems to be to live a lie, or to leave the community. Unless your family can find it in their hearts to face down the social pressure and loss of family "honour" (actually dishonour, if they renounce you were you to come out) and actually support your choice.

    I don't know whether that would be possible. From what you say it doesn't sound hopeful.

    I don't know where your family originates from. What happens to gays there? I find it extraordinary that such a sad story, such an UNNECESSARILY sad story should be taking place here, in 21st Century England.

    It seems to be a product of the clash in cultures, and of the difficulties your community have with reconciling the values of the mainstream society. Almost like they are proud of their backwardness, and fear a dilution of their identity were they to acknowledge the right of people to be gay without discrimination or prejudice.

    Is it easier to be gay here, than in your family's ancestral homeland? Or harder?

    The only positive I can take, and this is no consolation for you, is that the next generation will find it easier.

    These kind of cultural attitudes are antediluvian and atavistic. They can't stand contact with the wider culture for long. I guess the elders of your community know that only too well, and that is why they resist integration in attitudes so strongly...
 
 
 
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