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Should we privatise the NHS, but make insurance compulsory? Watch

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    I make no issue out of saying that I think the NHS is awful. Over the weekend, I saw a friend have her second poor experience with them in two weeks. The nurses didn't give a ****, the at-home support she was offered was laughable, and to top it off it was misdiagnosed twice at first! I wouldn't be so angry if another friend hadn't had a misdiagnosis for a similar issue two months earlier in a completely different part of the country (albeit England).

    Many people fear going into our filthy hospitals for an operation for something minor, due to the threat of leaving with MRSA. Waiting lists are abysmal. People say that insurance companies decline people with pre-existing conditions etc, but the NHS decline just as many cancer drugs if they're too expensive.

    I support a regulated private system whereby people are forced to purchase insurance. I say this, not as a libertarian, but as someone who wants to see the quality of our healthcare increase.

    I would regulate insurance prices so that insurers cannot overcharge or simply drop people from cover when they experience a long-term illness.

    Who on Earth are we to pontificate to the USA that they need socialised medicine when our own healthcare is so crap?
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    I don't think the NHS is too bad for how much I pay for it.

    What would happen to the NHS when everyone has to pay private. What happens who cannot afford insurance (I coudn't on my student loan - would that out rule me from the spinal op I need?)
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    Should we privatise the NHS, but make insurance compulsory?
    No.
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    I make no issue out of saying that I think the NHS is awful. Over the weekend, I saw a friend have her second poor experience with them in two weeks. The nurses didn't give a ****, the at-home support she was offered was laughable, and to top it off it was misdiagnosed twice at first! I wouldn't be so angry if another friend hadn't had a misdiagnosis for a similar issue two months earlier in a completely different part of the country (albeit England).

    Many people fear going into our filthy hospitals for an operation for something minor, due to the threat of leaving with MRSA. Waiting lists are abysmal. People say that insurance companies decline people with pre-existing conditions etc, but the NHS decline just as many cancer drugs if they're too expensive.

    I support a regulated private system whereby people are forced to purchase insurance. I say this, not as a libertarian, but as someone who wants to see the quality of our healthcare increase.

    I would regulate insurance prices so that insurers cannot overcharge or simply drop people from cover when they experience a long-term illness.

    Who on Earth are we to pontificate to the USA that they need socialised medicine when our own healthcare is so crap?
    So what is the penalty to be for not paying for the insurance? Jail time? Why is it to be compulsory? That would defeat the purpose, you'd be better raising taxes. It's not private if the whole country Is forced to be a part of it

    Either way, I assume you're wanting people to spend more than they already do, which isn't possible for a lot of people.
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    While it's far from perfect, I say we get value for money from the NHS, having the health sector in public hands gives the government greater accountability, which I quite like the idea of.
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    (Original post by deedee123)
    So what is the penalty to be for not paying for the insurance? Jail time? Why is it to be compulsory? That would defeat the purpose, you'd be better raising taxes. It's not private if the whole country Is forced to be a part of it

    Either way, I assume you're wanting people to spend more than they already do, which isn't possible for a lot of people.
    Potentially, yes.

    I think that the public sector is incapable of managing something as vital as healthcare, as evidenced by the NHS's scores in various league tables for cancer treatment and waiting times etc.

    It would have to be compulsory to ensure that we don't have a lemon-market of only people who are ill signing up for insurance. If everyone were signed up then the premiums would be lower.
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    You're preaching about compulsory medical insurance to a student forum, where most of us are living off our student loans and some part time work..

    Yeah, good luck with that.
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    The NHS obviously has issues... But why on earth should that mean we should scrap it? The government needs to invest more in it, it's massively understaffed in my local hospital. But that in no way means we should privatise it.
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    Potentially, yes.

    I think that the public sector is incapable of managing something as vital as healthcare, as evidenced by the NHS's scores in various league tables for cancer treatment and waiting times etc.

    It would have to be compulsory to ensure that we don't have a lemon-market of only people who are ill signing up for insurance. If everyone were signed up then the premiums would be lower.
    This is like saying "make private education universal and compulsory" once you make something compulsory and cheap, the service declines

    Would you be charging the same as private healthcare costs just now? If you were, there would be a lot of people in jail, if you were to make it cheaper, it won't be as good as it is just now.
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    (Original post by deedee123)
    This is like saying "make private education universal and compulsory" once you make something compulsory and cheap, the service declines

    Would you be charging the same as private healthcare costs just now? If you were, there would be a lot of people in jail, if you were to make it cheaper, it won't be as good as it is just now.
    No, once you make something private and introduce competition, the service improves.

    Private healthcare in this country is so expensive because the NHS takes most of the custom. Many Americans pay nowhere near as much for a decent insurance policy as most taxpayers pay in National Insurance.
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    Potentially, yes.

    I think that the public sector is incapable of managing something as vital as healthcare, as evidenced by the NHS's scores in various league tables for cancer treatment and waiting times etc.

    It would have to be compulsory to ensure that we don't have a lemon-market of only people who are ill signing up for insurance. If everyone were signed up then the premiums would be lower.
    And how is that different from the present system? It's even called National Insurance.

    I'll answer that question for you. It would be exactly the same apart from two differences: the ill people would pay more rather than it being equal, and shareholders would pocket the money that is currently paid to doctors. Also there would be incentive for hospitals to not really cure illnesses to keep their customers paying high premiums for continuing to be ill.

    And you can bet your life (which you may end up doing...) it would be more expensive to boot.
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    No, once you make something private and introduce competition, the service improves.

    Private healthcare in this country is so expensive because the NHS takes most of the custom. Many Americans pay nowhere near as much for a decent insurance policy as most taxpayers pay in National Insurance.
    It's not compulsory in America though, so they can charge whatever they want. If you're making it compulsory you'd have to charge a lower rate.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    And how is that different from the present system? It's even called National Insurance.

    I'll answer that question for you. It would be exactly the same apart from two differences: the ill people would pay more rather than it being equal, and shareholders would pocket the money that is currently paid to doctors. Also there would be incentive for hospitals to not really cure illnesses to keep their customers paying high premiums for continuing to be ill.
    I've already said that we would have an independent health regulator, so that problem of hospitals not really curing illnesses would not exist.

    It would be different from the present system because it would be in private hands. 'National Insurance' means **** all. It means I pay 9% of my salary to wait 8 weeks for the privilege of an operation on the NHS. A system that is so politically driven it's ridiculous.

    Of course there would be subsidies for the most vulnerable in making insurance affordable.
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    NO WAY, I don't want the American system in the UK. The NHS should be free at the point of use and services should be cradle to the grave
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    NO WAY, I don't want the American system in the UK. The NHS should be free at the point of use and services should be cradle to the grave



    Couldn't agree more.

    My cousin in America can't afford her heart drugs despite still working on at age 74.

    Is that really what we want here?
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    I'd rather healthcare be 'in our own hands' than in the hands of bunch of money making scumbags.
    What about people who can't get insurance? I know people with diseases/disorders etc that they were born with and as a result would just be left on their own with no support or help. I'd be amazed if these people who are struggling due to the recession anyway can somehow find the funds to survive.

    I'd like to see you try and regulate the insurance market :lol: why would they want to offer their business to someone who clearly is exempt from their business plan for a reason- it'll cost them money.

    If your so scared of public hospitals then just go private and let the rest of us get on with it.

    EDIT: Just a question, if I get sent to prison for refusing to pay can I have free healthcare in prison or will you let me die?
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    I make no issue out of saying that I think the NHS is awful. Over the weekend, I saw a friend have her second poor experience with them in two weeks. The nurses didn't give a ****, the at-home support she was offered was laughable, and to top it off it was misdiagnosed twice at first! I wouldn't be so angry if another friend hadn't had a misdiagnosis for a similar issue two months earlier in a completely different part of the country (albeit England).

    Many people fear going into our filthy hospitals for an operation for something minor, due to the threat of leaving with MRSA. Waiting lists are abysmal. People say that insurance companies decline people with pre-existing conditions etc, but the NHS decline just as many cancer drugs if they're too expensive.

    I support a regulated private system whereby people are forced to purchase insurance. I say this, not as a libertarian, but as someone who wants to see the quality of our healthcare increase.

    I would regulate insurance prices so that insurers cannot overcharge or simply drop people from cover when they experience a long-term illness.

    Who on Earth are we to pontificate to the USA that they need socialised medicine when our own healthcare is so crap?
    All this is based on examples of things that haven't worked in the NHS. How about focusing on the lives the NHS saves each year because people are able to get treatment without having to worry about their insurance not covering it?

    I was saved from years of dialysis because my NHS Doctor and the NHS hospital I went to were able to catch my e-coli quickly and treat me. Yes, the NHS has problems, no one would deny that, but to completely scrap it is ridiculous and ignores the enormous good it does for the majority of the country.

    Privatisation leads to idiotic things happening. About an hour outside of Las Vegas there's a brand new hospital that's completely stocked with everything except medicine...and it's empty. It had to close before it even opened because another hospital, a bit further away, drove it out of business by changing their prices. This is what putting healthcare in the hands of companies out to make a profit leads to, as well as leaving people with conditions they are born with to suffer because they can't afford treatment.

    To me that sounds like a nightmare. I'd much rather pay a bit more in NI to guarantee that if I need to go to hospital, I won't need to sell all my possessions and risk becoming homeless because I can't pay.
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    Not at all. We need to make our country economically strong enough to be able to cover the NHS' costs with a national surplus.
    As for care, we simply need better training, more reasonable working conditions and less media sensationalism.
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    'No'.

    Whilst i have nothing against private healthcare (i intend to use it myself) by abolishing the NHS and making it compulsory you choke off the incentive to compete and lower prices because you are guaranteed custom and the market therefore takes on the properties of a monopolistic one. On the flip side however by not making it compulsory you have people who will not have cover when they are ill. Contrary to popular belief private healthcare as it is now in the UK is actually cheaper than the NHS for what you get, comparable in price to the subsidized social insurance models found in Europe.

    My personal belief is that the NHS should be retained however it's services should be vastly reduced so that the private sector can compete to fix your toe for example. Essentially anything expensive would remain with the NHS whilst the cheaper services would no longer be funded by the NHS and as such people would take out insurance or pay at the point of use.
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    No, once you make something private and introduce competition, the service improves.
    No dogmatic assumptions here whatsoever....

    A lot of economists have come up with explanations as to the problems with the American system. In short, insurance becomes a race to the bottom.

    Let me explain. Suppose you're an insurer and you give everyone the same premiums. This is a great deal if you're rich or prone to illness, but it's a terrible deal if you're healthy and poor. So healthy poor people become less likely to buy insurance from you. This forces you to raise premiums, driving even more people away and so on and so on until you only have really unhealthy people who can't possibly do without it actually buying insurance.

    OK, insurer's don't offer the same premiums for everyone, that's why they make you fill out forms and suchlike. BUT:
    i) They'll never be able to have perfect information, so the problem will always be there.
    ii) Health insurance is often given out with a job in one-size-fits-all packages, wrecking the workings a bit more.
    iii) Insurers are obviously looking for a profit, meaning their tendency is to overprice.
 
 
 
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