University College London
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UCL or KCL? Can't decide!
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Original post by Thomas2
I can't comment on the courses but Durham is a really nice university town if you think you might like living in a small, friendly collegiate place for a while. If you have not visited Durham, I would strongly recommend going to have a look if you can before you decide.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to visit any of my choices before deciding on one. I think that I would really enjoy the collegiate system and the benefits of a campus university. Durham also seems like a really nice town, just like you say. However, I have decided not to pick Durham based on the fact that the course content does not appeal to me as much as the modules and options that UCL and KCL offer. It does seem like a great university though...
(edited 11 years ago)
University College London
London
Original post by Flax
This is exactly how I feel about the course at KCL. The modules seem great, the strand seems really nice and so does the student union and the accommodation. Unfortunately, I won't be able to visit before making a decision. This may sound a bit silly, but I am a bit hung up on the prestige thing. Sometimes I think that I would have better career prospects if I choose UCL but I don't know if it's worth giving up on KCL?
UCL pumps out research by the bucket loads, which means that its reputation (especially internationally) is greater than KCL and Durham. Then again besides academic circles, the general public would have unlikely to have heard of it outside the UK, unless its Oxbridge.
But honestly don't let rankings or prestige affect your decision. I used to judge universities by that until I actually went to university, then I realised that different universities offer different experiences, and different departments offer different experiences to other departments at the same university.
If you like KCL go for it, it doesn't matter what university you go to as long as it brings out the best in you (which usually tends to be the one you like most ;D)
Original post by Flax
Thank you for answering! I'm now trying to decide between UCL and KCL, Durham is no longer in the running. What made you choose UCL and the arts and sciences programme?
A&S at UCL offered science & engineering options, something which Liberal Arts at KCL doesn't offer. Also I had talked to the course director and he convinced me that he was someone whom I would really enjoy learning from.
I don't know what the staff at KCL are like, but I do know the course staff at UCL are passionate, fun and interesting people. Plus they offered science modules which KCL doesn't offer. So I judged that UCL would be the better experience for myself.
Original post by Torvus
A&S at UCL offered science & engineering options, something which Liberal Arts at KCL doesn't offer. Also I had talked to the course director and he convinced me that he was someone whom I would really enjoy learning from.
I don't know what the staff at KCL are like, but I do know the course staff at UCL are passionate, fun and interesting people. Plus they offered science modules which KCL doesn't offer. So I judged that UCL would be the better experience for myself.
I don't know what the staff at KCL are like, but I do know the course staff at UCL are passionate, fun and interesting people. Plus they offered science modules which KCL doesn't offer. So I judged that UCL would be the better experience for myself.
The one thing which makes me hesitant when it comes to A&S is the core and since the core is 50% it's quite a big thing to be hesitant about. The core courses just seem a bit, well, I don't know really. Which is the problem I think, I just don't know if I will enjoy them or if they are that valuable. I like the idea of 50% pathway and 50% core, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around courses such as "approaches to knowledge" and "object-based learning".
What makes me hesitant when it comes to KCL is actually the opposite (which makes me sound a bit contradictory), there aren't enough core courses (only one per year)! I'm afraid the degree will just be "a bit of this and a bit of that". Well, I wanted "a bit of this and a bit of that" which is why I applied, however, I'm having doubts that it will be a bit too interdiciplinary.
I'm a bit all over the place right now so I better stop ramble. Maybe I'm overthinking everyting...
Original post by intstud29
It's not silly being "hung up on" prestige, but you need to know the correct level of the unis you compare with.
Somehow, many on TSR think that KCL is inferior, but employers don't. Employers rank KCL in the same league as UCL in 99% of cases.
http://blog.studylondon.ac.uk/2012/09/london-best-for-uk-graduate-salaries/
Average starting salaries in 2012.
Starting salary from UCL: £ 25,020.
Starting salary from KCL: £ 24,798
Career prospects - The Guardian
UCL - 77%
KCL - 76%
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2012/may/21/university-league-table-2013
Career prospects - The Complete University Guide
UCL - 79,9%
KCL - 79,6%
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?o=Prospects
So they are actually at the same level according to employers, no matter what "prestige" on TSR might say.
Somehow, many on TSR think that KCL is inferior, but employers don't. Employers rank KCL in the same league as UCL in 99% of cases.
http://blog.studylondon.ac.uk/2012/09/london-best-for-uk-graduate-salaries/
Average starting salaries in 2012.
Starting salary from UCL: £ 25,020.
Starting salary from KCL: £ 24,798
Career prospects - The Guardian
UCL - 77%
KCL - 76%
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2012/may/21/university-league-table-2013
Career prospects - The Complete University Guide
UCL - 79,9%
KCL - 79,6%
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?o=Prospects
So they are actually at the same level according to employers, no matter what "prestige" on TSR might say.
Speaking as a Com Sci. graduate in the banking industry, it is immediately apparent that UCL's CS department has much, much better connections to employers than King's. There's a guy in the UCL CS department who will get you an internship (albeit below minimum wage pay) if you ask him for one, and bulge bracket investment banks regularly recruit in UCL. I can't say the same for Kings, most notably evident by the fact that in tech career fairs the booths are much more sparse in King's than in UCL.
Original post by sadhukar
Speaking as a Com Sci. graduate in the banking industry, it is immediately apparent that UCL's CS department has much, much better connections to employers than King's. There's a guy in the UCL CS department who will get you an internship (albeit below minimum wage pay) if you ask him for one, and bulge bracket investment banks regularly recruit in UCL. I can't say the same for Kings, most notably evident by the fact that in tech career fairs the booths are much more sparse in King's than in UCL.
That might be the case, but in this case, we are talking about overall reputation, in addition to the Liberal Arts degrees. Which is what OP is interested in.
Graduate prospects, average starting salary and percentage of students in employment, six months after graduation.
KCL is once again, one of the best out there.
Here is another proof, in addition to those I posted earlier.
Source:
According to the 2013 Sunday Times University Guide, published in September, 2012,
King’s College London is the best university in the UK for graduate employment.
Regarding IB/Banking, yes, UCL has slight edge there, since UCL is one of those 6 target unis banks usually prefer. However, there are other unis which are semi-targeted such as KCL. KCL has been on a rise here lately.
Source:
banks also have an elite group of ‘target’ universities to which they’ll actively sell a career within investment banking. At undergraduate level in the UK (in no particular order) these are Oxford, Cambridge, London School of Economics (LSE), UCL, Imperial College London and Warwick.
The likes of Kings College London, Bristol, Nottingham, Manchester, Bath and Edinburgh are also well-regarded.
http://news.efinancialcareers.com/53928/which-university-is-best-for-breaking-into-banking/
I don't know if OP wants to work in a "huge bank", since this is the only place UCL will have a slight edge over KCL. Every other employer, and they are at the same level.
Furthermore, you can't ignore the fact that many undergrad students would like to do a MA/MSc, but they lack funding. Therefore it would be smart to go to the university which gives you the best shot at achieving 1st class degree which would enable that particular student to get funding or scholarship a lot easier for their MA/MSc.
Which means that eventually, you don't need to choose between KCL or UCL; you can get both - one at undergrad level, and the other one at postgrad level which would put that student within the group of "target unis" anyway. Having MA/MSc will give that student several benefits that an undergrad is lacking. In mainland Europe, this is a "must have" degree. So if you want an international career and to maximize your chances for getting a job, not just in the UK, but in the rest of Europe/World, then it would be very smart to start thinking about MA/MSc, even before that student start their BA degree.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by intstud29
That might be the case, but in this case, we are talking about overall reputation, in addition to the Liberal Arts degrees. Which is what OP is interested in.
I don't know if OP wants to work in a "huge bank", since this is the only place UCL will have a slight edge over KCL. Every other employer, and they are at the same level.
I don't know if OP wants to work in a "huge bank", since this is the only place UCL will have a slight edge over KCL. Every other employer, and they are at the same level.
Thank you for answering. I am not planning to work in finance, so you're right, that's not really relevant for me. I have decided to firm KCL and hopefully I'm making the right decision.
Original post by Flax
How much better would you say? What made you choose UCL?
UCL is slightly better than KCL and Durham, not much better.
UCL is the undisputed 5th best uni in the UK. KCL and Durham are in the batch after these 5. UCL would have a better local and international reputation than both.
KCL and Durham are in the same league. Durham would be a little more prestigious locally because of its high entry grade average, but KCL is far more prestigious internationally because of its brand, so I would put KCL marginally above Durham but that is just a hair-line.
Whichever you choose would be good.
=> Oxbridge
=> LSE and Imperial
=> UCL
=> KCL, Durham, Warwick, Bristol, Edinburgh, St Andrews and Nottingham
hi
i had to make the same decision, ucl, kcl, durham and liberal arts and sciences at birmingham.
i chose ucl,
1. its the best uni
2. having science at degree level really sounds impressive
and also because i wasn't very impressed with the kcl liberal arts open day.
we had a talk on theatre studies, despite this not being an option of a major. and the degree has obviously had a lot of logistical teething problems.
i found that whereas ucl allows you to combine the humanities, kcl placed much more of an emphasis on the arts.
i realised i would rather combine say history and politics, than try and study how to define the boundary between the two.
to me, ucl's basc seems to aim to let you study what interests you, while learning skills that you can then use to go and change the world. king's degree was much more about sitting down and immersing yourself into the arts.
i guess it depends what you prefer, but that was my overall opinion of the degrees.
i had to make the same decision, ucl, kcl, durham and liberal arts and sciences at birmingham.
i chose ucl,
1. its the best uni
2. having science at degree level really sounds impressive
and also because i wasn't very impressed with the kcl liberal arts open day.
we had a talk on theatre studies, despite this not being an option of a major. and the degree has obviously had a lot of logistical teething problems.
i found that whereas ucl allows you to combine the humanities, kcl placed much more of an emphasis on the arts.
i realised i would rather combine say history and politics, than try and study how to define the boundary between the two.
to me, ucl's basc seems to aim to let you study what interests you, while learning skills that you can then use to go and change the world. king's degree was much more about sitting down and immersing yourself into the arts.
i guess it depends what you prefer, but that was my overall opinion of the degrees.
Original post by indigoheart
hi
i had to make the same decision, ucl, kcl, durham and liberal arts and sciences at birmingham.
i chose ucl,
1. its the best uni
2. having science at degree level really sounds impressive
and also because i wasn't very impressed with the kcl liberal arts open day.
we had a talk on theatre studies, despite this not being an option of a major. and the degree has obviously had a lot of logistical teething problems.
i found that whereas ucl allows you to combine the humanities, kcl placed much more of an emphasis on the arts.
i realised i would rather combine say history and politics, than try and study how to define the boundary between the two.
to me, ucl's basc seems to aim to let you study what interests you, while learning skills that you can then use to go and change the world. king's degree was much more about sitting down and immersing yourself into the arts.
i guess it depends what you prefer, but that was my overall opinion of the degrees.
i had to make the same decision, ucl, kcl, durham and liberal arts and sciences at birmingham.
i chose ucl,
1. its the best uni
2. having science at degree level really sounds impressive
and also because i wasn't very impressed with the kcl liberal arts open day.
we had a talk on theatre studies, despite this not being an option of a major. and the degree has obviously had a lot of logistical teething problems.
i found that whereas ucl allows you to combine the humanities, kcl placed much more of an emphasis on the arts.
i realised i would rather combine say history and politics, than try and study how to define the boundary between the two.
to me, ucl's basc seems to aim to let you study what interests you, while learning skills that you can then use to go and change the world. king's degree was much more about sitting down and immersing yourself into the arts.
i guess it depends what you prefer, but that was my overall opinion of the degrees.
Thank you for answering. I'm a bit curious, how come you weren't impressed by the open day? (I wasn't able to attend). Also, what do you mean by "logistical teething problems"?
Original post by Flax
Thank you for answering. I'm a bit curious, how come you weren't impressed by the open day? (I wasn't able to attend). Also, what do you mean by "logistical teething problems"?
we had a half an hour talk on theatre studies, what it means to be acting, and the one and other project in 2009. which was concluded by the professor telling us that you can't do theatre studies as part of the degree.
so the talk was neither interesting or relevant..
there were also some current 1st year students, who constantly interrupted him, to talk about another part of the course. and the poor professor just looked flustered and let them continue.
they said that students had been forced into taking modules from subjects they didn't want to study, due to quota issues. and there were problems with the year abroad and internship aspects of the course. it seems that the kcl bosses have prioritised liberal arts and worked hard on making things work, but there do still seem to be issues.
Original post by indigoheart
we had a half an hour talk on theatre studies, what it means to be acting, and the one and other project in 2009. which was concluded by the professor telling us that you can't do theatre studies as part of the degree.
so the talk was neither interesting or relevant..
there were also some current 1st year students, who constantly interrupted him, to talk about another part of the course. and the poor professor just looked flustered and let them continue.
they said that students had been forced into taking modules from subjects they didn't want to study, due to quota issues. and there were problems with the year abroad and internship aspects of the course. it seems that the kcl bosses have prioritised liberal arts and worked hard on making things work, but there do still seem to be issues.
so the talk was neither interesting or relevant..
there were also some current 1st year students, who constantly interrupted him, to talk about another part of the course. and the poor professor just looked flustered and let them continue.
they said that students had been forced into taking modules from subjects they didn't want to study, due to quota issues. and there were problems with the year abroad and internship aspects of the course. it seems that the kcl bosses have prioritised liberal arts and worked hard on making things work, but there do still seem to be issues.
Oh wow, now I'm getting slightly worried. I don't want to be forced into taking modules I really don't want to study. Did you go to the arts and sciences open day as well? I only had a Skype interview.
Original post by Flax
Oh wow, now I'm getting slightly worried. I don't want to be forced into taking modules I really don't want to study. Did you go to the arts and sciences open day as well? I only had a Skype interview.
that might be an issue with ucl too though, i'm not sure :/
it was a shame i didn't enjoy the kings open day as i loved the course.
yeah i did! it was one of those rare experiences where i got on really well with everyone i met.
i was over an hour late due to train malfunctions, and they were really understanding, and over lunch mr gombrich, and dr mole took the time to come around every table and not only meet people, but ask about what modules/languages people were interested in, in order to try and prepare for any clashes.
the only issue with the ucl open day was that the timing was messed up, and the lecturers forgot that every session had to finish 5 minutes earlier than planned, so 5 to 4pm not 4pm.
this meant that a whole cohort of students entered the hall before people had finished their tests, and people were forced to rush- i wasn't even sure i had managed to save my work onto the pendrive, as well as people's papers being swept onto the floor by the next lot of students.
really enjoyed the ucl test day though, all 4 lectures were really interesting.
Original post by indigoheart
that might be an issue with ucl too though, i'm not sure :/
it was a shame i didn't enjoy the kings open day as i loved the course.
yeah i did! it was one of those rare experiences where i got on really well with everyone i met.
i was over an hour late due to train malfunctions, and they were really understanding, and over lunch mr gombrich, and dr mole took the time to come around every table and not only meet people, but ask about what modules/languages people were interested in, in order to try and prepare for any clashes.
the only issue with the ucl open day was that the timing was messed up, and the lecturers forgot that every session had to finish 5 minutes earlier than planned, so 5 to 4pm not 4pm.
this meant that a whole cohort of students entered the hall before people had finished their tests, and people were forced to rush- i wasn't even sure i had managed to save my work onto the pendrive, as well as people's papers being swept onto the floor by the next lot of students.
really enjoyed the ucl test day though, all 4 lectures were really interesting.
it was a shame i didn't enjoy the kings open day as i loved the course.
yeah i did! it was one of those rare experiences where i got on really well with everyone i met.
i was over an hour late due to train malfunctions, and they were really understanding, and over lunch mr gombrich, and dr mole took the time to come around every table and not only meet people, but ask about what modules/languages people were interested in, in order to try and prepare for any clashes.
the only issue with the ucl open day was that the timing was messed up, and the lecturers forgot that every session had to finish 5 minutes earlier than planned, so 5 to 4pm not 4pm.
this meant that a whole cohort of students entered the hall before people had finished their tests, and people were forced to rush- i wasn't even sure i had managed to save my work onto the pendrive, as well as people's papers being swept onto the floor by the next lot of students.
really enjoyed the ucl test day though, all 4 lectures were really interesting.
Oh, too bad about the timing. What do you think of the core modules? From what I have read, I prefer KCL's core over UCL's.
Original post by Flax
Oh, too bad about the timing. What do you think of the core modules? From what I have read, I prefer KCL's core over UCL's.
much prefer kcl's core
ucl's website seemed to me to be a lot of words and not much meaning... ucl's looks scary and hard, but i asked some current students on TSR and they were all really positive about the accessibility of the mathsy modules and how helpful and approachable the lecturers were soo i can only hope for the best
Original post by indigoheart
ucl's website seemed to me to be a lot of words and not much meaning...
I thought the exact same thing! However, I don't want to end up choosing KCL over UCL based on how well they present their info on the course pages. But, I do feel that it is a bit difficult to grasp the value of UCL's core. This is so confusing! I was almost set on KCL and now I'm starting to doubt my decision.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Flax
I thought the exact same thing! However, I don't want to end up choosing KCL over UCL based on how well they present their info on the course pages. But, I do feel that it is a bit difficult to grasp the value of UCL's core. This is so confusing! I was almost set on KCL and now I'm starting to doubt my decision.
yeaah you're right, i was really impressed by the arts and sciences talk at open day as well as test day, so i kinda ignored the website after that.
i firmed ucl and almost immediately felt i should have firmed kings.
good luck!
I think UCL is better in sciences, so UCL is good. It really won't make a difference by comparing accommodations, since the unis are SO close to eachother. So it just depends on you, why don't you go to the open days in September again, to get a feel of both the places?
Original post by NidaJaffri
So it just depends on you, why don't you go to the open days in September again, to get a feel of both the places?
I have to decide by 8th May.
Original post by Flax
I have to decide by 8th May.
Just go for UCL, I do a UCL program. Everyone is extremely nice, amazing library, great teachers and incredible location. It's in the heart of London, might be expensive - but it's the same as KCL because KCL is central too. Honestly, UCL's sciences and arts are good. Go for UCL!
Good luck
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