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Minimum alcohol pricing may be dropped Watch

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    (Original post by limetang)
    Plus. Your still a taxpayer. This is a public service you have paid for, and have a right to use irrespective of how your health got into the state it's in.
    How many of these people who go out at weekends, take drugs or get so hammered that they need medical attention are actually Taxpayers? I bet a lot of folk under 21 and at Uni have not paid a penny in Income Tax or NI. I have paid twelve years of Tax, NI, and as I have my own wee bar in Scotland, I have been paying thousands of pounds in Corporation Tax for the past four years. I would rather my tax money went on worthwhile projects, not wasted on people who cannot handle there drink. The NHS pays £2.1 Billion year treating drunks and it is unacceptable!
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    (Original post by rich2606)
    Maybe I'm talking as a Londoner, but minimum unit prices will have no affect on club prices as they are already several times above this level. £7-8 for a double vodka and coke (i.e.. 2 units) :mad:

    They should find another way to lower the difference between pub/club prices and the supermarket to encourage the former, as there's no one in your house to say "you've had enough mate" or "You're not coming in you're too drunk".
    They'll still try to pass the cost onto you though. They have to pay extra for the stock and they'll charge the going markup rate on that to the consumer.
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    I don't agree with the minimum alcohol pricing. Quite frankly if I want a bottle of something, I will not care too much how much it costs as it's not something I do particularly often. Plus the majority of people who buy alcohol are people who just want to enjoy a nice bottle of wine on a friday night, not binge drinking teenagers.
    However I do agree with heavy taxation regarding tobacco. As a smoker who comes form Eastern Europe where tobacco prices are extremely low - the ridiculous price of **** really does help in cutting down due to the fact it's something I consume every day and am now struggling to pay for.
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    I have to say, as someone who owns a bar, minimum pricing would be brilliant for me, as I can put another 50p on my drinks, which in turn will make me more money, however I don't like it on the grounds of principle. In Scotland, they are bringing in a minimum price of 50p a unit, but this is getting challenged by the breweries at the moment, and the word around the campfire is, the Breweries could well win, due to EU competition law.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    How many of these people who go out at weekends, take drugs or get so hammered that they need medical attention are actually Taxpayers? I bet a lot of folk under 21 and at Uni have not paid a penny in Income Tax or NI. I have paid twelve years of Tax, NI, and as I have my own wee bar in Scotland, I have been paying thousands of pounds in Corporation Tax for the past four years.
    So? Who cares? I don't care about how more entitled you feel and I don't think no one else does.

    These people pay tax whether direct or indirect and to deny them medical treatment would be morally wrong and would go against what the NHS stands for. Stopping certain people from getting treatment is too far. Who are you to classify who needs help or not? So if you were in government no young people would receive medical treatment?




    Minimum pricing won't solve a thing. It just prices out people and doesn't solve the cultural problem. People will just go underground for booze, people will be poorer and this will put gangsters and organised crime bosses in charge (sort of like Prohibition). Worse quality booze will also make the health of people worse and when things get in the hands of the crims quality goes to ****, other problems such as prostitution and drug dealing are financed and anything can be put in it (weed for example)




    Also what about rich alcoholics? If you're poor and an alcoholic you're scum, but if you are rich then you're worthy of treatment? People forget about alcoholism and the middle class (specifically middle class women and alcohol). I bet there's middle class kids here go can definitely back me up. In middle class communities things just happen behind closed doors.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19870190





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    No, of course I'm not saying that young folk should not get medical treatment, but there is a minority of people in this country, rich and poor, (the worst drunken fight I have ever seen was at The Grand National Race Meeting, 2004. In the VIP area) who abuse the NHS. I do think that people who go out on a regular basis, get so hammered that they need treatment, again, on a regular basis, need to start paying towards it. I must stress that it is the minority who do it, but in these austere times, I find it frustrating that we as a country pay millions of pounds for NHS treatment which can be avoided. I know what I'm suggesting will never happen, but it does wind me up (as I over £80,000 a year in taxes) but then again, a lot of things about this country wind me up.
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    I'm surprised Theresa May was opposed to this, i would of thought she would be in favor or cutting crime and stuff, i thought that was her thing alongside immigration. And if people will continue to buy it despite the rise in prices for alcohol would that not generate more for the economy or am i missing something?

    The past week newspapers were filled with articles about students binge drinking also which could be another incentive to rise prices. But i think now most people are waiting to see what will the outcome be in Scotland before they progress anymore on this issue.

    Educating youngsters on this issue wont solve anything in my opinion, most teenagers don't give a **** about the consequences and only care if the end result in drinking and/or smoking makes them look cool/older.
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    (Original post by Tbx)
    Hate to break it to you but lower rates are more effective up to a point, look at what is happening in France.
    Who said anything about rates fool if you evade tax it doesn't matter what the rate is you're not paying any!

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    (Original post by amholcroft)
    Who said anything about rates fool if you evade tax it doesn't matter what the rate is your not paying any!

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    Perhaps you should stick to your 3 A levels, rather the chatting utter crap and letting down your parents .
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    (Original post by Tbx)
    Perhaps you should stick to your 3 A levels, rather the chatting utter crap and letting down your parents .
    You must be on a debate team bringing up such valid points, well done.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    Actually, one of the ideals of communism is that government set prices. If the government are setting prices for alcohol, then that is similar to communism. Why don't they set prices for cigarettes? Petrol? Have you ever been to Cuba? I have, and everything in Cuba is set by government, a core ideal of Communism. The way forward to tackle alcohol abuse is education, and trying to stop making a alcohol a fun, taboo drug to young kids. I must also point out that I actually have my own Bar in Scotland, and I have a Personal Alocohol Licence in Scotland, and in England, so this is a subject I know a lot about. Minimum pricing will not work!
    Setting a minimum price on a dangerous substance isn't quite the totalitarian control of the economy in communism for one thing companies are free to charge above the minimum and many already do. I agree with your other point though yes our drinking culture needs to change not the price of our drinks.
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    It would help pubs, but I can't see it driving people away from alcohol. If things get too expensive people will just start homebrewing (and likely selling it on too).
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    How many of these people who go out at weekends, take drugs or get so hammered that they need medical attention are actually Taxpayers? I bet a lot of folk under 21 and at Uni have not paid a penny in Income Tax or NI. I have paid twelve years of Tax, NI, and as I have my own wee bar in Scotland, I have been paying thousands of pounds in Corporation Tax for the past four years. I would rather my tax money went on worthwhile projects, not wasted on people who cannot handle there drink. The NHS pays £2.1 Billion year treating drunks and it is unacceptable!
    So you make your money selling an addictive drug to people, yet don't want to know about the consequences?
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    So you make your money selling an addictive drug to people, yet don't want to know about the consequences?
    I know all to well about the consequences of alcohol abuse, but it is high time that we start treating adults like adults instead of wiping their backsides all the time. The problem with booze is not down to the pubs, it is down to the Supermarkets. There should be a higher tax when it comes to buying booze for consumption off-licence, and a lower tax for alcohol served on-licence. That would mean more people going to the pubs, where they will be properly supervised. I remember the days where the only place you could buy booze apart from a pub was a off-licence, not supermarkets, and with restricted hours. There was a lot less hassle back then, believe me.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    I know all to well about the consequences of alcohol abuse, but it is high time that we start treating adults like adults instead of wiping their backsides all the time. The problem with booze is not down to the pubs, it is down to the Supermarkets. There should be a higher tax when it comes to buying booze for consumption off-licence, and a lower tax for alcohol served on-licence. That would mean more people going to the pubs, where they will be properly supervised. I remember the days where the only place you could buy booze apart from a pub was a off-licence, not supermarkets, and with restricted hours. There was a lot less hassle back then, believe me.
    I'm a big fan of pubs and don't like the way they have been driven into the ground by succesive governments.

    I was taking issue with your comment about tax payers, I thought it was a little hypocritical given how you make a living.
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    The issue I had is with the small minority who can't control themselves, drink until they collapse and then require us to pay for there medical treatment. The Licensing regime is very strict and expensive in Scotland. I have a simple Bar, with a cap of 125 and I have to pay £5,000 for my premises licence, and £3,000 "late night police charge". If I was a leasehold licensee, I would have gone under by now. Thankfully I own the place and I have a manager who runs it for me. I know alcohol can cause problems, but the vast majority of folk are fine with it, and as I was debating with so end this afternoon, I do not think it is the governments place to put a minimum price on it.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    The issue I had is with the small minority who can't control themselves, drink until they collapse and then require us to pay for there medical treatment. The Licensing regime is very strict and expensive in Scotland. I have a simple Bar, with a cap of 125 and I have to pay £5,000 for my premises licence, and £3,000 "late night police charge". If I was a leasehold licensee, I would have gone under by now. Thankfully I own the place and I have a manager who runs it for me. I know alcohol can cause problems, but the vast majority of folk are fine with it, and as I was debating with so end this afternoon, I do not think it is the governments place to put a minimum price on it.
    I'm against minimum pricing too. However, you sell a potentially lethal and addictive drug. You have to take some responsibility for that.
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    On one hand I'd like to see the sales of pisswater fall and put the companies that make it out of busines. On the other hand, I'm worried that if this legislation does eventually get passed that 'the good stuff' is going to increase in price to distinguish it from the cheapest booze. It could mean that people like me who just like a drink of something nice every now and then end up paying more. Hopefully that won't happen though.

    Also, if it passes, I'd expect people will just go on booze-cruises to France or heavily exploit duty free. £10 for a litre of Gordon's gin in an airport is not to be sniffed at!
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    If I sold it irresponsibley I would, however, it is a legal drug to buy in this country, and whilst it is consumed in my premises, it is consumed under the supervision of my manager and the staff, who will make sure that it is consumed in a responsible way. I also do not allow U21s into my bar. Unfortunately, we do not have control of how people consume alcohol in the home, and that is where the crux of the problem is.
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    (Original post by CelticSymphony67)
    If I sold it irresponsibley I would, however, it is a legal drug to buy in this country, and whilst it is consumed in my premises, it is consumed under the supervision of my manager and the staff, who will make sure that it is consumed in a responsible way. I also do not allow U21s into my bar. Unfortunately, we do not have control of how people consume alcohol in the home, and that is where the crux of the problem is.
    Yeah, its legal and I take your word for it that you're a responsible bar owner. You seem to want to duck your social responsibility though.
 
 
 
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